PC & Video Games

Locked: Go home next-gen consoles. You're not ready yet.

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SuperDuperFox wrote: ^What equipment are you using?
oops. Derp on my part. damit BMR, all you're "Go Home..." threads are confusing me, this was supposed to be in the Dark Souls thread LMAO.
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TheBatManRising wrote: I'm not sure why you keep using the word "fight"....it's not a "fight"...
You seem to be going at it pretty hard for it to look like anything but - and for one that you lost right out of the gate when you insisted on using ammunition which, in the context in which you are trying to make a case for, simply does not make a lick of sense whatsoever. Once again: go home batman.
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BYan wrote: You seem to be going at it pretty hard for it to look like anything but - and for one that you lost right out of the gate when you insisted on using ammunition which, in the context in which you are trying to make a case for, simply does not make a lick of sense whatsoever. Once again: go home batman.
? Explain?

I was using your own logic, just saying that you can't be hypocritical in how you apply it.

Now it sounds like you are just evading the issue once I pointed out the flaw (since you didn't quote the main point of my post explaining it, and address where it's wrong). I'm not saying your logic is "wrong" per se, I'm just saying, again, that you are being inconsistent/hypocritical with how you're applying it.

If you have nothing substantive left to argue after I explain the hypocrisy, save for vague and general comments that try to dodge and circumvent the main issue , shouldn't you go home? :razz:
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TheBatManRising wrote: I was using your own logic, just saying that you can't be hypocritical in how you apply it.
And I'll try to explain - for the last time - that your argument was not only flawed, it never applied in the first place. You went on a tirade about how apples aren't worth it by repeatedly shouting bananas until people started getting worried and asked you to leave. Go home, man. :facepalm:
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BYan wrote: And I'll try to explain - for the last time - that your argument was not only flawed, it never applied in the first place. You went on a tirade about how apples aren't worth it by repeatedly shouting bananas until people started getting worried and asked you to leave. Go home, man. :facepalm:
...what?

Where's the explanation? You said it's "flawed" but you still won't explain "how" (more so since it's your logic I'm using). Why do you keep running away from it? I've giving you couple of fair chances here already (and I'm even being polite and encouraging about it too).

If no more salient argument is left except for desperate last-ditch evasive maneuvers like this, I rest my case. :D
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Didn't you say you were done with this thread? Go home your drunk.
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blzn wrote: Didn't you say you were done with this thread? Go home your drunk.
lol, true, I did say that. But then after I said that all these weird comments out of nowhere popped up calling me a Nintendo fanboy, and a couple of really long tirading posts about Nintendo, etc. :eek: .

I think I might have just been baited back into my own thread. :lol:
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Mar 18, 2010
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I don't think it's the Next-Gen consoles that need to go home, it's you. No offence but your arguments are repetitive, and hold no ground. Next-gen consoles ARE ready, millions of us are enjoying them, they WILL get better, consoles take a while to get more features and it's no different for this one. I've never enjoyed gaming like I have with my PS4. Quite frankly, you always sound like you're just trying to convince yourself otherwise on all your points. For the love of 6 pound 8 ounce baby jesus GO HOME!
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c613m wrote: No offence but your arguments are repetitive, and hold no ground.
I made some fair points I think, and did my best to back them up, and got some agreement from others as well (not surprising since the majority of the gaming market hasn't migrated to next gen, for a variety of reasons, of which I'm sure some of the ones I provided are part of). I've also been very polite with everyone (despite the name-calling I've been receiving). I'm happy to hear counter-arguments and I'm willing to address each on a point-by-point basis, so long as an actual argument is being made (a number of these comments are just hot-air).

I've heard some good arguments disagreeing, but the majority of comments seem to be along the lines of "You're wrong, but I can't prove how, so I will just make vague attacks that don't really mean anything." :eek: That's not really helpful...
c613m wrote: Next-gen consoles ARE ready, millions of us are enjoying them, they WILL get better, consoles take a while to get more features and it's no different for this one.
True, but millions upon millions more are enjoying last gen consoles. We can't ignore that fact.

c613m wrote: they WILL get better, consoles take a while to get more features and it's no different for this one.
Agree, except you are glossing over the fact that this gen, we are starting from below the finishing line of last gen. We have "next-gen" consoles that are still trying to catch up to last gen in features and functionality. Receiving a patch in order to see how much batter power your controller has doesn't exactly feel like it's "getting better." Adding a basic feature like that which we had last gen from launch doesn't count as an improvement.
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The Nintendo Wii-U already doesn't have the best software lineup out of current gen consoles.

Super Mario 3D World is somewhat similar to Super Mario Galaxy but not quite as good. The rest of the exclusives Nintendo has right now do not make up for the lack of 3rd party support.
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TheBatManRising wrote: If no more salient argument is left except for the one you've been making all along and the same one which I am going to continue to pretend to ignore...
I've explained it plenty: you cannot make a valid comparison when you are not applying the same parameters to both sets of data. Do car makers compare first month sales of a new model with the lifetime sales of its predecessor? Does Apple compare the 1st day sales of the new ipad with the lifetime sales of the ipad 2? The comparison must be made over the same period of time in similar circumstances in order to carry weight; ergo, your entire argument was void from the getgo. And in that regard, the new consoles are absolutely killing it. You just closed your eyes and stuck your fingers in your ears and dodged the issue.

We need a facepalm emoticon but with a brick...

Go home, man.
c613m wrote: No offence but your arguments are repetitive, and hold no ground. Quite frankly, you always sound like you're just trying to convince yourself otherwise on all your points.
He reminds me of that one kid at recess who has an obsessive need to validate his toys at the expense of those of his peers when secretly he wants it more than anything else in the world. I think we've all known that kid at some point or another.
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And that's all folks, BMR go home :lol:
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TheBatManRising wrote: True, but millions upon millions more are enjoying last gen consoles. We can't ignore that fact.

Agree, except you are glossing over the fact that this gen, we are starting from below the finishing line of last gen. We have "next-gen" consoles that are still trying to catch up to last gen in features and functionality. Receiving a patch in order to see how much batter power your controller has doesn't exactly feel like it's "getting better." Adding a basic feature like that which we had last gen from launch doesn't count as an improvement.
Of course millions more are enjoying last gen. It's been out for 7 years longer than current-gen. In a year or two you will be saying the opposite cause those consoles will start to see the great AAA games leaving (such as Batman, etc).

Your right that we should expect similar functionality but I think for the most core gamer, it doesn't matter at the end of the day and within the first year, those are the type of people buying the new machines. They want it for its original purpose and thats to play games so I think lacking features and functions is a moot point especially after only being a few months into the new lifecycle.
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Why did BMW leave Nintendo out of this argument? It's the console that is having the worst success right now with the Wii U. It needs the most criticism considering if they want to turn things around they have to make lots of changes. Right now, Nintendo is a glass house and BMR's throwing rocks from it.

I don't know how he can talk about companies stripping down its capabilities when Nintendo has had the most barebone console for the longest time. Having no media capabilities at all really, this gen and next. From the get go, Nintendo is usually the only company making money on hardware which just shows the true value their systems provide.

If BMR can leverage price criticism on the PS4, he should be able to do it for the Wii U. 100 dollars separates the Wii U price from the PS4 in most countries. If nintendo didn't do a price drop, it would have been 50. Considering the hardware of the PS4 is probably about 5 to 6 times more powerful than a Wii u, 100 dollars isn't that much. I know I would pay 100 dollars more to get the graphic capability of the PS4 on my Wii U and for it to get third party support from game developers. I.e getting new release of titles, not old titles like batman and mass effect from last gen.

The Wii U, need to be priced at 200 dollars for the deluxe new. That's its worth consider it has around the same ballpark of capabilities as last gen and has none of the media capabilities, and no harddrive. Sure it has the tablet controller, but it doesn't have the game library other consoles have. Plus Nintendo makes a killing on their software, they should be most willing to break even or take a loss of the console itself.
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^I will bite on the Wii U for $150 if I ever find it. The Nintendo games rarely drop in the price so the console needs to be priced significantly lower to justify the purchase of the console.
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Wii U is more interesting to me right now then either PS4 or X1, it's just a matter of price. I just don't want to pay $299 for it. $199 with a bundled game thrown in (say the Mario luigi bundle), and I'm sold. Most of the games on Ps4/X1 are available on PS3 anyway, so at this moment, Wii U has more to offer me.
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Wouldn't software sales be a far better indicator of how many people upgraded over total lifetime hardware sales?

Aren't next Gen software sales not currently outpacing current Gen software sales by a fairly large margin?

Given several reasons (such as failure rate, Blu-ray/media capabilities, price, multi consoles per househols) assuming 80 million console a sold = 80 million active users is a pretty silly assumption... Going off software sales it seems clear that more people that actively play games have upgraded than ones who have not.
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BYan wrote: I've explained it plenty: you cannot make a valid comparison when you are not applying the same parameters to both sets of data. Do car makers compare first month sales of a new model with the lifetime sales of its predecessor? Does Apple compare the 1st day sales of the new ipad with the lifetime sales of the ipad 2? The comparison must be made over the same period of time in similar circumstances in order to carry weight; ergo, your entire argument was void from the getgo. And in that regard, the new consoles are absolutely killing it. You just closed your eyes and stuck your fingers in your ears and dodged the issue.
Ah, you're still avoiding the main point, which was that your own logic was being applied hypocritically. If you think 7 million who choose to buy next gen (out of a market size of about 250 million) are people who "disagree with me", why is it then okay for you to ignore the rest of the market who choose to stick with last gen (and therefore, by your own metric, agree with me)?

You can't say the people who buy next gen "disagree" and then simply ignore everyone else who doesn't buy next-gen. That doesn't make any sense. It's like using the smaller number that suits your point, and intentionally ignoring the bigger one that contents with it. Why would it be okay for you to say that 7 million agree with you because they bought next gen, but it's not okay to say the rest of the people in that same group who are sticking with last gen don't agree with you? How is it that their actions are irrelevant simply because they don't affirm your assertion? That is a very childish way to argue.
blzn wrote: And that's all folks, BMR go home :lol:
Feel free to actually add something that I can respond to. ;) Don't be shy and hide in the sidelines chanting, enter the arena yourself!
sheepdogexpress wrote: Why did BMW leave Nintendo out of this argument? It's the console that is having the worst success right now with the Wii U. It needs the most criticism considering if they want to turn things around they have to make lots of changes. Right now, Nintendo is a glass house and BMR's throwing rocks from it.

I don't know how he can talk about companies stripping down its capabilities when Nintendo has had the most barebone console for the longest time. Having no media capabilities at all really, this gen and next. From the get go, Nintendo is usually the only company making money on hardware which just shows the true value their systems provide.

If BMR can leverage price criticism on the PS4, he should be able to do it for the Wii U. 100 dollars separates the Wii U price from the PS4 in most countries. If nintendo didn't do a price drop, it would have been 50. Considering the hardware of the PS4 is probably about 5 to 6 times more powerful than a Wii u, 100 dollars isn't that much. I know I would pay 100 dollars more to get the graphic capability of the PS4 on my Wii U and for it to get third party support from game developers. I.e getting new release of titles, not old titles like batman and mass effect from last gen.

The Wii U, need to be priced at 200 dollars for the deluxe new. That's its worth consider it has around the same ballpark of capabilities as last gen and has none of the media capabilities, and no harddrive. Sure it has the tablet controller, but it doesn't have the game library other consoles have. Plus Nintendo makes a killing on their software, they should be most willing to break even or take a loss of the console itself.
Before I address this, I need to know one critical piece of info. Do you consider Wii U to be a "next gen" console?

Think carefully, please don't just blurt out an answer, but actually reason it out. I'm giving you a hint (which I usually don't do!) - the answer to this question will form the basis of my follow-up argument! :D ;)
Maximize wrote: Wii U is more interesting to me right now then either PS4 or X1, it's just a matter of price. I just don't want to pay $299 for it. $199 with a bundled game thrown in (say the Mario luigi bundle), and I'm sold. Most of the games on Ps4/X1 are available on PS3 anyway, so at this moment, Wii U has more to offer me.
Of course. More and better exclusives, a cheaper price, backwards capability (real backwards capability, not some live streaming subscription service that still requires you to repurchase old games, which defeats the purpose of real" backwards compatibility").
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TheBatManRising wrote: Ah, you're still avoiding the main point, which was that your own logic was being applied hypocritically. If you think 7 million who choose to buy next gen (out of a market size of about 250 million) are people who "disagree with me", why is it then okay for you to ignore the rest of the market who choose to stick with last gen (and therefore, by your own metric, agree with me)?

You can't say the people who buy next gen "disagree" and then simply ignore everyone else who doesn't buy next-gen. That doesn't make any sense. It's like using the smaller number that suits your point, and intentionally ignoring the bigger one that contents with it. Why would it be okay for you to say that 7 million agree with you because they bought next gen, but it's not okay to say the rest of the people in that same group who are sticking with last gen don't agree with you? How is it that their actions are irrelevant simply because they don't affirm your assertion? That is a very childish way to argue.


Feel free to actually add something that I can respond to. ;) Don't be shy and hide in the sidelines chanting, enter the arena yourself!



Before I address this, I need to know one critical piece of info. Do you consider Wii U to be a "next gen" console?

Think carefully, please don't just blurt out an answer, but actually reason it out. I'm giving you a hint (which I usually don't do!) - the answer to this question will form the basis of my follow-up argument! :D ;)



Of course. More and better exclusives, a cheaper price, backwards capability (real backwards capability, not some live streaming subscription service that still requires you to repurchase old games, which defeats the purpose of real" backwards compatibility").
Of course it's next generation. They made it next gen when they priced it initially at 350/300. If they had priced it at 250 at launch with the basic at 200, then I would consider it last gen.

Even if they don't have the same graphic capabilities doesn't mean they aren't competitors for the same generation. I would definitely consider the Playstation Vita a competitor to the 3ds because one is going to take away sales from the other.

To price your console at 350 dollars which was 50 dollars away from the PS4 price denoted it as Nintendo's next gen. Plus, it would be bonkers to launch a last gen console at 350 dollars when the market is completely saturated.
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sheepdogexpress wrote: Of course it's next generation. They made it next gen when they priced it initially at 350/300. If they had priced it at 250 at launch with the basic at 200, then I would consider it last gen.

Even if they don't have the same graphic capabilities doesn't mean they aren't competitors for the same generation. I would definitely consider the Playstation Vita a competitor to the 3ds because one is going to take away sales from the other.

To price your console at 350 dollars which was 50 dollars away from the PS4 price denoted it as Nintendo's next gen. Plus, it would be bonkers to launch a last gen console at 350 dollars when the market is completely saturated.
I don't think the "price" is an indicator of whether it's "next-gen" or not. By that definition, Xbox1 would be the most "next gen" console, and more "next gen" then PS4 (despite it running most games in ~720p versus 1080p on PS4, even then with higher graphical effects thrown in as well). Doesn't really make sense, as in reality X1 is still struggling to differentiate from 360 and PS3 in some games, and really is more inline with those machines right now.

To me, price/value, Wii U beats out the competition by a long shot. Of all the next-gen consoles, it is priced the cheapest, had more launch titles, higher-res games, more (and better) exclusives (always the one area Nintendo will dominate in), and on top of that real backwards capability (making it effectively two consoles in one) and free online.

Compare that to paying half a grand for a machine that still floats around 720p as it's default resolution, depends on sub-par third-party ports, has no backwards capability at all, requires the most expensive online subscription to play online, double charges you for any other services that require their own subscription, has almost no interest, by any measure you use, of getting serious about creating it's own unique first-party offerings that can help differentiate it (rather seems more content on selling any in-house developers they can find a buyer for), jams what few exclusives it does have with controversial and excessive micro-transactions, took almost 3 months to figure out how to show a battery bar for your controller, attempted in vain stubbornness and desperation to lock out the used-game market, packs it's OS with advertisements, and I'm left wondering how a rational person would figure that this is a better option than a Wii U, or would be considered more "next-gen", or could be worth the half-a-grand asking price.

Skepticism should be universal. Apply it to all companies, not just one. :-0

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