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Deal Addict
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Apr 5, 2016
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@peanutz Yup, it seems like Dr. Fuhrman has got me figured out. I'm open to different versions but that's the typical diet scheme that I've been rolling with quite a long time.
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May 14, 2009
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brandonly wrote:
Jan 5th, 2018 8:22 pm
almond butter is a good choice.
The question was in reference to a recipe where butter is used for sautéing ;)
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Jul 23, 2007
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Speaking of Dr. Fuhrman, I haven't read it yet, but one of his more recent books is "Fast Food Genocide How Processed Food is Killing Us and What We Can Do About It". Ordered a copy from the library.
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Jun 5, 2017
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Guelph, Ont
toronto19850 wrote:
Jan 5th, 2018 9:08 pm
So what you're saying is vegans are okay with eating animal products from animals that are not raised unethically?
Why not eat halal meat in that case?
I was under the impression it was different than that
no, perhaps i should have worded things differently. vegans dont believe in eating anything that comes from or harms an animal. i merely meant that veganism would be less common if we treated animals better.
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Jun 21, 2016
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brandonly wrote:
Jan 6th, 2018 11:35 am
no, perhaps i should have worded things differently. vegans dont believe in eating anything that comes from or harms an animal. i merely meant that veganism would be less common if we treated animals better.
Doesn't that statement contradict itself?
On one hand you say vegans don't believe in eating anything that comes from or harms an animal
and the other hand you say some vegans would eat things that come from an animal, if they were treated better?

And my original question was
"If everyone in the world became vegan, wouldn't farm animals cease to exist? "

So I just want to clarify, that vegans would be okay for farm animals to become extinct so long they are not treated the way they are now. I always thought that would be the opposite of what vegans would want.
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Jul 23, 2007
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This is an Australian film about how a fast food junkie lost weight and turned his health around within three months by adopting a primarily plant based (not all) traditional Japanese style diet.

Miso Hungry
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Dec 11, 2008
8484 posts
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toronto19850 wrote:
Jan 6th, 2018 11:59 am
Doesn't that statement contradict itself?
On one hand you say vegans don't believe in eating anything that comes from or harms an animal
and the other hand you say some vegans would eat things that come from an animal, if they were treated better?

And my original question was
"If everyone in the world became vegan, wouldn't farm animals cease to exist? "

So I just want to clarify, that vegans would be okay for farm animals to become extinct so long they are not treated the way they are now. I always thought that would be the opposite of what vegans would want.
I think it depends how you look at it. I would be making up a percentage but like 99% of farm animals are raised for food consumption no? So it isn't a volume of animals, I don't think we NEED more cows. I mean don't they release a ton of methane gas? There were cows in the will before humans came. The challenge is, we keep reducing forests and wild land to raise farm animals for food. If the increasing demand is not there, perhaps we could leave these areas alone and farm animals can naturally thrive or sustain themselves... I don't think anyone want species to die off. I can't imagine pigs just disappearing from the face of the earth because we stopped farming them...
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Jun 21, 2016
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speedyforme wrote:
Jan 7th, 2018 8:58 am
I think it depends how you look at it. I would be making up a percentage but like 99% of farm animals are raised for food consumption no? So it isn't a volume of animals, I don't think we NEED more cows. I mean don't they release a ton of methane gas? There were cows in the will before humans came. The challenge is, we keep reducing forests and wild land to raise farm animals for food. If the increasing demand is not there, perhaps we could leave these areas alone and farm animals can naturally thrive or sustain themselves... I don't think anyone want species to die off. I can't imagine pigs just disappearing from the face of the earth because we stopped farming them...
Well, where are all the chickens, pigs, cows that aren't being raised on a farm? (other than the odd 1 or 2 raised by a family as a pet)
I have yet to know of any wild chickens, cows, pigs. Which would mean they would be extinct without being raised on farms unless people started raising them as pets.
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Dec 11, 2008
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toronto19850 wrote:
Jan 7th, 2018 9:21 am
Well, where are all the chickens, pigs, cows that aren't being raised on a farm? (other than the odd 1 or 2 raised by a family as a pet)
I have yet to know of any wild chickens, cows, pigs. Which would mean they would be extinct without being raised on farms unless people started raising them as pets.
No wild chickens, cows and pets?

These animals have exist long before man decided to eat them and farm them. The challenge now is, what have we done with their environment that can impact their survival on their own.

Also, the documentary did raise a good point, at what point did we decide to eat other animals and not others? And at what point did we not worry about the treatment of certain animals over others?
[OP]
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Apr 15, 2011
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Scarborough
so after doing some research I have decided i'm not going to be a full vegan. Ive always known that extremism in any kind of form can lead you down a painful path, and this is one of those learning experiences. I'm not going to start eating full on meat again like I was before but after reading about how omega 3 deficiency in vegans/vegetarians is contributing to diseases, I have decided i'm going to be okay with eating fish on occasion. More importantly I will begin to supplement with fish oils as well as flaxseed/chiaseeds on top of b12 and my multivitamins.

Research shows that maintaining a ratio of 1:1 omega3 to omega6 is important to good health. On top of that, EPA and DHA--both of which are important for your health aren't readily found in any vegetarian source. A precursor molecule is found in plant sources such as flaxseed/chiaseeds but your body is only able to convert a small fraction (10%) to the needed compounds. Its not only vegans however that have an issue with this because omega3, EPA and DHA aren't found in any real meat source except for fish.

Bottom line is I will be supplementing with fishoils on top of adding flaxseeds/chiaseeds to my diet
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Jun 21, 2016
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speedyforme wrote:
Jan 7th, 2018 9:29 am
No wild chickens, cows and pets?

These animals have exist long before man decided to eat them and farm them. The challenge now is, what have we done with their environment that can impact their survival on their own.

Also, the documentary did raise a good point, at what point did we decide to eat other animals and not others? And at what point did we not worry about the treatment of certain animals over others?
Well, we eat all animals, I am sure if you go around the world you'll find that all animals are eaten. So I am not sure where you got that information, other than a bias documentary.

Farm animals are easy to raise and yield more food. For the majority of the population's it'd be practical to raise/eat these animals rather than raising things like frogs, squirrels etc. I doubt it has anything to do with "humans are only supposed to eat these animals and no other".
Maybe you have examples of animals humans are not supposed to eat? The only ones I can think of are animals that are poisonous to humans.
Last edited by toronto19850 on Jan 7th, 2018 1:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Apr 18, 2017
224 posts
79 upvotes
The domesticated animals being talked about here, did not exist in their present forms until we started shepherding them, culling for the traits we desired.
A shitzu has wolf DNA. That doesn't mean it would survive long in the wild.

Same goes for most domesticated animals. We have bred them to be reliant on us for their survival. Of you were to let them go in the wild around here, we would have a happily expanding coyote population for the first year, followed by a starving one the following year.
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Jun 5, 2017
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but even if we abandoned farm animals and stopped consuming them, the species would learn to be self sufficient and adapt to being wild over time and the species would survive by itself unless threatened.
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Apr 15, 2011
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qman23 wrote:
Jan 7th, 2018 1:08 pm
The domesticated animals being talked about here, did not exist in their present forms until we started shepherding them, culling for the traits we desired.
A shitzu has wolf DNA. That doesn't mean it would survive long in the wild.

Same goes for most domesticated animals. We have bred them to be reliant on us for their survival. Of you were to let them go in the wild around here, we would have a happily expanding coyote population for the first year, followed by a starving one the following year.
The second argument that you made doesnt make sense. I'm not that against eating animals but, it's not like we'd suddenly just stop eating meat one day. It would be a gradual reduction
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Oct 1, 2011
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Stryker wrote:
Jan 7th, 2018 4:40 am
This is an Australian film about how a fast food junkie lost weight and turned his health around within three months by adopting a primarily plant based (not all) traditional Japanese style diet.

Miso Hungry
Have you watched? Would you mind providing a summary? I saw the first few minutes where the fat producer buys 4-5 McD burgers (which is extreme and grossed me out.) Plus I don't plan on implementing a traditional Japanese diet anyway so I skipped it for now. :D

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