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is it a good idea to buy a condo that was built in 1969?

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Newbie
Oct 6, 2013
79 posts
3 upvotes
Toronto

is it a good idea to buy a condo that was built in 1969?

is 45 years considered old for a condo building? what are the things i should consider/ask before buying it? i went to see it today and it looked quite nice, both from outside of the building and inside of the unit, doesn't look that old at all, the building seems to be very well maintained. maintenance fee is about $450/month. price is $115,000 for a one bed room
24 replies
Member
Mar 25, 2010
239 posts
44 upvotes
Get the place evaluated by someone competent and he'll be able to advise you. No one here can give you accurate information as we do not know the condition of the building. The price seems cheap, but 1969 seems really old as well.
Deal Addict
Oct 29, 2010
4475 posts
811 upvotes
I wouldn't necessarily worry about the age of the building, what worries me is the length of time management had to screw up the finances. I would assume just based on that, it's relatively high risk property.
Deal Addict
Feb 7, 2008
1552 posts
145 upvotes
Toronto
monotonous wrote: is 45 years considered old for a condo building? what are the things i should consider/ask before buying it? i went to see it today and it looked quite nice, both from outside of the building and inside of the unit, doesn't look that old at all, the building seems to be very well maintained. maintenance fee is about $450/month. price is $115,000 for a one bed room
what area it is located at? is it for investment or yourself?
If it is one of those old condo in so not good areas, then i would say it is not a bad investment as long as you can keep yourself safe whenever you go there for repair or collecting rent.
Personally I like to keep it simple and also concern my personal safety. So for investment, I would not buy those condos in a sub level neighborhood.
Deal Addict
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Feb 6, 2012
4947 posts
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Gloucester, Canada
oajlu wrote: what area it is located at? is it for investment or yourself?
If it is one of those old condo in so not good areas, then i would say it is not a bad investment as long as you can keep yourself safe whenever you go there for repair or collecting rent.
Personally I like to keep it simple and also concern my personal safety. So for investment, I would not buy those condos in a sub level neighborhood.
-Has there been any upgrade to the building and unit over the years?
-condo fee and what that include??
sign by: someone
Deal Expert
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Aug 2, 2010
15196 posts
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Here 'n There
Older condo's are way better insulated than this new crap they build because anything insulates better than the floor to ceiling glass walls designed into every condo now (to be banned next year by the Ontario Building Code finally). Also, older older condos are better designed and actually have hallways and closet space, etc.. Imagine that? Also, with old condo's the kinks have been worked out of the building and they have a very good record of what maintenance needs to be done and what is to be expected. This reduces the nasty cash call suprises from unit owners. New condo's have none of this info. Everything is a surprise.
flafson wrote: I wouldn't necessarily worry about the age of the building, what worries me is the length of time management had to screw up the finances. I would assume just based on that, it's relatively high risk property.
Finances being screwed up in a condo has nothing to do with its age but rather the condo board. I've screen finances screwed up very quickly in new condos. One of the ones that always happens instantly is "oh, the maintenance fee in this new condo turns out to be way more than estimated'.
Deal Fanatic
Dec 6, 2006
5805 posts
1972 upvotes
Toronto
I was gona say no for the $450/month.
But then the price is only $115k... that's quite cheap so may be it's worth it.

Can you obtain the condo corp status certificate to look into the finances and if anything major may be needed? The biggest concern IMO is major update/repairs needed that will skyrocket the monthly fee.
Deal Addict
Oct 29, 2010
4475 posts
811 upvotes
eonibm wrote: Finances being screwed up in a condo has nothing to do with its age but rather the condo board. I've screen finances screwed up very quickly in new condos. One of the ones that always happens instantly is "oh, the maintenance fee in this new condo turns out to be way more than estimated'.
As someone with experience like yourself, is there a way to protect yourself against something like that before buying a condo?
If you buy a condo for 300k or whatever, with monthly fees of say $500 a month and then the next year it jumps to $700, nobody is going to pay for the place 300k anymore, instant loss.
Deal Guru
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Mar 1, 2004
12861 posts
1485 upvotes
Pickering
I just looked at a site called condos dot ca and they listed condo fees for a building I am familiar with. They are full of **** and way too low. The condo board was a bunch of screw ups and the new condo board announced to fix the place up meant that condo fees were going from the 400's into the 700's. Some people sold asap and now nobody wants to buy there because of the condo fees. There were issues with the roof, parking garage and elevator.

Coincidentally when you are looking to purchase a building for an investment, what you check is:

1. Roof
2. Elevators
3. HVAC
4. Windows
5. Parking facility
6. Balcony condition

If these have not been maintained, guaranteed the day will come with a huge increase on the condo fees.
Deal Addict
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Jan 2, 2012
4596 posts
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Toronto
flafson wrote: As someone with experience like yourself, is there a way to protect yourself against something like that before buying a condo?
If you buy a condo for 300k or whatever, with monthly fees of say $500 a month and then the next year it jumps to $700, nobody is going to pay for the place 300k anymore, instant loss.
Anytime you purchase a condo, you always need to make the offer conditional on review of the condo's Status Certificate. This will include all of the financials of the condo, projected upcoming repairs and costs, and reserve fund studies. Your RE layer needs to review this in detail, and can advise you if there are any reasons to suspect a maintenance fee increase will be coming in the near future. Usually fees don't jump from $500 to $700 with no advanced warning or signs.

Obviously though this won't help much if you're buying a condo pre-construction, or even a re-sale one that is still very new. Or it won't help if there is a catastrophic type event that results in a massive expenditure over what any reserve fund can handle.

Only other thing I could think of in newer condos, is to learn who the management company is and see if you can research other condos they manage to see if they're good or not.
Banned
May 12, 2004
9756 posts
4136 upvotes
Ottawa
What's the ratio of owner occupied vs investors/renters?

That and the books is all you need to know.
Deal Addict
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Jul 10, 2004
2256 posts
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Vancouver
Poutinesauce wrote: I would buy an old condo instead of one of these new pieces of garbage made with God knows what ANY day. The only positive of new condos is they don't have any asbestos, but unless you're a hipster douchebag all else is worse.
but what if you are a hipster douchebag that doesn't like asbestos??
Jr. Member
Nov 9, 2012
119 posts
11 upvotes
GUELPH
flafson wrote: I wouldn't necessarily worry about the age of the building, what worries me is the length of time management had to screw up the finances. I would assume just based on that, it's relatively high risk property.
LOL please ignore everything about this post. Because most certainly, a 46 year old building MUST have some incompetent management. Because of that speculation, it's a high risk property.
Deal Expert
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Aug 2, 2010
15196 posts
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Here 'n There
flafson wrote: As someone with experience like yourself, is there a way to protect yourself against something like that before buying a condo?
If you buy a condo for 300k or whatever, with monthly fees of say $500 a month and then the next year it jumps to $700, nobody is going to pay for the place 300k anymore, instant loss.
No because they're always 'estimates' and the condo developer protects themselves 10 ways to Sunday in the documents.
Deal Guru
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Mar 1, 2004
12861 posts
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Pickering
coolwasabi wrote: but what if you are a hipster douchebag that doesn't like asbestos??
This comment really makes my day. :lol:
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Jan 6, 2011
6190 posts
1546 upvotes
GTA
Is this high rise? more description would help.

A restoration engineer once told me, any residential or almost any building in general could last forever. New techniques comes up thus cost of fixing/upgrades gets cheaper and cheaper. The ceiling height would become your concern as human had been growing taller and at this rate 9ft ceiling today may only last another 100yrs that you may not want to live in it.

That said, the older bldgs I have reviewed has some pros and some cons. If the location is good and fits your current needs, older bldg can be better choices than new.

Plumbing is going to be a problem, some are fixable and some are not. Avoid suites that there's horizontal going over your roof.

Because a bldg is older, it usually accumulate way more "history". Check the crime data and see if your community is safe and secure, also the board involvements and finances.

Old bldg generally had larger footprint, 900ft 1BD is common 30+yrs ago. Even 20+yrs ago it's not that common. They were built to a more strict code and didn't have all the crappy material or construction methods available.

If you sit down in the lobby of any building for 10 minutes, you should get a sense of who lives there and how these people behave. If you talk to the security guard, they can tell you what has gone on in the past few months. But usually whatever I could uncover on my own, had already been public knowledge, that most of the realtors/investors in the area knew by word of mouth.

EDIT: All the old bldgs I evaluated before were Toronto luxury condos built around 30-35yrs ago with prime locations. Listings on these can be gone in 48hrs and no more than 1 wk. I just realized it's not the same as the regular old bldgs that some might allude to.
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Apr 20, 2011
5310 posts
484 upvotes
Vancouver
In Vancouver , an older building has a poorer chance of appreciation. But for just living in it long term, its okay.
Deal Expert
Oct 6, 2005
16872 posts
2557 upvotes
monotonous wrote: is 45 years considered old for a condo building?
Yes, that's very old... get a copy of the Condo Board minutes and see what sort of maintenance fund they have and what sort of repairs they are planning. Last thing you want is to buy the place and be hit with a $20,000 surcharge to fix a leaky roof.

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