Computers & Electronics

Got served paper from IP trolls for bit torrent copyright

  • Last Updated:
  • Jun 21st, 2018 12:17 am
Deal Addict
Jul 3, 2017
2185 posts
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If you are participating in a torrent swarm, then everyone else in the swarm can see what portions of file you are offering. The copyright complainant would likely have to be prepared to prove:
a) that the file being offered was in fact the copyrighted work
b) that you had all or a substantial portion of it
c) that you were offering it for upload

This information is easily available to them, if they recorded it correctly and convince the judge that their techniques are valid and accurate.

Whether you were uploading or not, making an unauthorized copy is the basic illegal act. Offering it for upload just increases the likelihood of a higher fine from the court, and opens up the remote possibility that you could be sued for actual damages if there were a way for the complainant to prove lost sales due to your unauthorized copy being offered on the internet.
Sr. Member
Jan 29, 2017
881 posts
744 upvotes
Exp315 wrote:
Jun 14th, 2018 12:02 pm
Whether you were uploading or not, making an unauthorized copy is the basic illegal act. Offering it for upload just increases the likelihood of a higher fine from the court, and opens up the remote possibility that you could be sued for actual damages if there were a way for the complainant to prove lost sales due to your unauthorized copy being offered on the internet.
Trolls are likely going to target lowest hanging fruits first to maximize chances of winning - those who upload and had multiple offences. Let's not forget the spirit of the law is to deter infringement and not provide a quick buck opportunity to trolls.
Deal Fanatic
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Nov 24, 2012
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Thanks for posting. 1200$ is still fairly significant
Jus2rich wrote:
Jun 14th, 2018 11:42 am
If the file sat on your computer and it was seeding to other users they get you on reproducing copywritten material. That’s what I understood when I got noticed. I sought three different lawyers before choosing one and settling.
Newbie
Jun 15, 2018
8 posts
1 upvote
I've heard from some people at work that this is 100% real and their father who practiced law for 42 years confirmed it. One of the coworkers I guess got it, he had to show up to court and everything was pinned against him as far as I heard. He ended up paying about $3500 in damages. Scary as hell.
Deal Addict
Jul 3, 2017
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Hmmm, newbies with few posts showing up now to say that this is absolutely real and scary, and that those accused should settle. Now if there were a law firm trying to scare people into settling...
Deal Guru
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Jun 15, 2012
10545 posts
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Southern Ontario
Exactly. “I’ve heard” and 3 posts. Better proof or it didn’t happen.
Deal Addict
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Mar 31, 2017
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Exp315 wrote:
Jun 17th, 2018 9:30 am
Hmmm, newbies with few posts showing up now to say that this is absolutely real and scary, and that those accused should settle. Now if there were a law firm trying to scare people into settling...
heh ya I know. Looks fishy to me.
Newbie
Jun 13, 2018
11 posts
14 upvotes
Trying to use ones own experiences to advise other people in a similar situation doesn’t sound fishy to me. What it sounds like is someone trying to help. Two months ago when I got served there was no forum for me to talk to other people in the same situation... I got scared both by the lawsuit, the lack of information online, and what the lawyers were telling me were my possible outcomes. This isn’t an “I heard”. It’s an “I lived” and this is very much real. Advising to settle is my advice only because I managed to get it all taken care of with just over 1200, as opposed to going to court, settling for damages, and then paying a lawyer litigation fees. Even if you win, they won’t cover all your legal costs. There is no criminal record regardless, so why not just get it taken care of for he least amount of money possible?
Newbie
Jun 16, 2018
1 posts
2 upvotes
So I’ve been closely monitoring this thread for a while and have contacted a few members here and there but never got a concrete answer about what’s next. I’m adding a few details that I’ve noticed is not mentioned in this thread for clarification.

First thing you do is you do not ignore the letter. This could be then used to file a default judgement against you if not filed a defence in 30 days and then you have no option to fight it. However, based on what I can tell after looking at the case file page, there seems to be no default judgement passed yet. I could be wrong about this though. Someone with more legal knowledge feel free to correct me.

Second, you need to file a statement of defence. What you can do is go to http://cas-cdc-www02.cas-satj.gc.ca/fca ... o=T-909-17

and take down the case number. Go to this post got-ser ... #p29296013 and listen to his advice. The actual statement can vary and you can add all specific statements. At this point, you would need to send that defence in and swear an affidavit saying that you’ve served the plaintiff with a statement of defence. Or you can get a process server for that. Once done, you can sit back and wait for their reply to the statement of defence which would again be a template of them saying yes, you did download it we have proof and further asking you to call them to discuss the next steps. At this point, as long as you stand your ground, you can call Aird. They will be informing you that they do intend to take you to court. Then they will ask you if you want to settle. They can go for 4k to 5k. If you accept thats fine, If not you can counter offer with your amount which could be 100-500-1000-2000 depending on how your conversation goes. I’ve already settled for a really low amount in another similar case and if you can talk them down, you can go lower. My advice is talk to them and try to settle as low as possible because if you’re even a tad bit afraid of what happens next and the stress of having an ongoing case against you, it will save you a lot of trouble. It does get complicated after this.

At this point, if you’ve settled you don’t need to worry except for maybe getting a VPN or just not download anything anymore ever because if this shit happens to you again, you best believe the amount will be a lot more than what it was in this case.

However, if you do proceed to go to trial, then you will be deciding upon dates to have a conference with a judge and the plaintiff discussing the next steps and the dates for those to be carried out. This involves the discovery process where they probably will ask for your laptop as “evidence”. In turn however, you can ask for their tracking software as evidence. This process is going to take a long time though so it could be a drag for them to stay involved and they may or may not proceed further. But you have to assume that this case is going all the way to the end and proceed accordingly. You may or may not need a lawyer to represent you based on your understanding of the case. Their fees are really really high so if you’ve reached this point, be prepared to loosen up your wallets. However, there is no precedence for such a case in Canada. I have yet to see an ongoing/closed case where the judge ordered a defendant to pay the full amount over to the Plaintiff based on IP address ownership. The entire idea is that you are responsible for anything that goes on in your account. Which honestly doesn’t make sense. How would you be responsible for something that you are not aware of? You bet these guys aren’t going after Starbucks or McDonalds if someone uses their internet to torrent a movie. But again, these guys are pros at this and have several ongoing cases of similar nature. Ken Clark, the lawyer involved in this, does have an IT background and used to be a sysadmin so I presume he knows about IPs as well and can presumably fight back anything related to the software. Anyone who is deep into this case, feel free to reach out to me as I may be able to help you out.
Deal Addict
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Mar 31, 2017
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"taken care of" is an interesting phrase. It's what I would use if I wanted ppl to settle. Promise an end so long as you dole out the money.

I would take 2 of you more seriously if you didn't join in the last 20 days. Interestingly enough both of them who joined very recently advocate settling. Hell if I settled for over $1k I WOULDNT be here advertising this. I would want to stay as far away from this memory as possible. Yet here this guy is saying he settled and he's happy he's short over $1k and keeps coming back in here for more.
Newbie
Jun 13, 2018
11 posts
14 upvotes
Of course I was happy. When you have a number presented to you that you may be found liable for $50,000, or even 5,000$, it’s great to have settled for $500. One of the two is a few days work, the other is me losing my house. If you can’t see the joy in having Aird and berlis settle for $500, then you should give your head a shake. I’ve spoken on the phone with two other posters here, and you can give me a call as well if you like.

I guess I just didn’t have je same confidence you have that if I sat and waited for those thirty days I was given to find legal counsel went by, I would be found liable. I’m not sure if you have ever been involved in any other civil case, but this was a first for me. And I wasn’t even the one downloading anything... but the Internet was in my name, and I was convinced enough that that was enough grounds for me to be found culpable. The smartest thing to do is to “take care of” it, whether that means you want to take it to court or settling. Sitting around pretending it’s gonna go away on its own is irresponsible.
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Mar 31, 2017
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Jus2rich wrote:
Jun 17th, 2018 2:39 pm
Of course I was happy. When you have a number presented to you that you may be found liable for $50,000, or even 5,000$, it’s great to have settled for $500. One of the two is a few days work, the other is me losing my house. If you can’t see the joy in having Aird and berlis settle for $500, then you should give your head a shake. I’ve spoken on the phone with two other posters here, and you can give me a call as well if you like.

I guess I just didn’t have je same confidence you have that if I sat and waited for those thirty days I was given to find legal counsel went by, I would be found liable. I’m not sure if you have ever been involved in any other civil case, but this was a first for me. And I wasn’t even the one downloading anything... but the Internet was in my name, and I was convinced enough that that was enough grounds for me to be found culpable. The smartest thing to do is to “take care of” it, whether that means you want to take it to court or settling. Sitting around pretending it’s gonna go away on its own is irresponsible.
Where u getting the $50k number from?
Newbie
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Apr 20, 2018
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Woodstock
badOne wrote:
Jun 17th, 2018 2:43 pm
Where u getting the $50k number from?
See the third image:
cgcgcgcg wrote:
Jun 13th, 2018 11:22 am
https://imgur.com/a/xonr9pv
The letter is written to create a lot of fear and anxiety, although I doubt their claim that the maximum damage is $50k since according to Copyright act, the max damage is $5000
Deal Addict
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Aug 3, 2009
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I am making my way through this thread slowly. While I do, can anyone confirm whether they were served with a form of court order or notice allowing the claimant to serve via registered mail? I will review the federal court rules but most often service must be personal unless they can get an order for substituted service.

Edit : it appears the FC rules permit service by registered mail if you sign for it. See 129: http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regu ... ight-panel
Last edited by jmatheson64 on Jun 17th, 2018 4:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Deal Addict
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Mar 31, 2017
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To me whether it is 1200 or 1400 or 3000, it's still a high number. Since their model is never to go to court, why the hell are you even thinking of settling? They aren't going to court. If it gets to court and word gets out that the $5k promised by the government is bogus there will be new legislation that will compromise these troll lawyer's economic model.

I would roll the dice and force them to court instead of settling.

As for plantiff costs, there are a lot of ppl they are suing at the same time the cost of that is spread over that many ppl, and you can challenge them on the cost. It wont be you 100% of $150k. No chance of that.

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