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Are Government and Government Agency Jobs Really More Secure?

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Apr 21, 2004
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Are Government and Government Agency Jobs Really More Secure?

Besides those that are unionized (below manager level) say at OPS, are most of thee non-unionized jobs more secure compared to similar jobs in the private sector?

It seems I had come across an article last month that suggests public service salaries have equaled or even at times surpassed their private sector counterparts and that doesn't even include future benefits like generous defined benefit pensions if you stay long enough at the workplace.

I understand government jobs can be lost but from what I read here and from a few friends who work for the government and/or agencies, I person who occupies a job that is now deemed redundant are more likely to be moved to another department working at the same band/level.

Your thoughts?
21 replies
Deal Fanatic
Apr 11, 2012
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There are quite a bit of re-structuring going on at many govt departments due to budget cuts.
But I would say govt job is more secure that private.
Some places govt employees don't even have to work that hard (compared to private).
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Feb 16, 2010
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My Buddy work in Gov, he msgs me on wahtsapp during work to tell me that he is watching movie on Ipad. and he makes like 75k in Ontario.
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Oct 20, 2011
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ironbrah wrote: My Buddy work in Gov, he msgs me on wahtsapp during work to tell me that he is watching movie on Ipad. and he makes like 75k in Ontario.
I had my own office before entering public sector. I watched movies/youtube/netflix all the time on one screen and worked off from the second back then.
And now I can't watch $hit as my screen is facing my direct supervisor.
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Nov 1, 2014
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ironbrah wrote: My Buddy work in Gov, he msgs me on wahtsapp during work to tell me that he is watching movie on Ipad. and he makes like 75k in Ontario.
that's pretty low salary...my friends go for spa treatments and go drink at lunch who work on bay street..

others in the big telcos get second jobs that they do during the day .that was hilarious that they go for couple-few hours during the day to their side jobs around the office at yonge/bloor

many jobs have good perks.
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Sep 27, 2003
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LandKing wrote: that's pretty low salary...my friends go for spa treatments and go drink at lunch who work on bay street..and makes over the RFD requirement of $100k
Fixed.
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Nov 1, 2014
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416_guy wrote: Fixed.
they don't..they're around the 80-90k mark ..which is the norm for those of us just 8-10 years out of school... but yea 100k+ with bonuses but base salary no.
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Apr 11, 2012
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ironbrah wrote: My Buddy work in Gov, he msgs me on wahtsapp during work to tell me that he is watching movie on Ipad. and he makes like 75k in Ontario.
This might be little extreme...But things like these does happen.
I had chance of working in a govt department on a 6 month term position and made few observations.
-People take breaks upto 3-4 hr
-some even go for gym, shopping, home etc
-Talking/gossiping with others or on the phone
-Few are very dumb or incompetent (say don't even have basic skills in MS office) and expect to spoon feed everything before they can go out and perform their duties.
-Some work hard (even harder than private sector)<--few and far in between
What I found was, in that particular dept, there are people being paid upwards of 80k plus benefits, just for doing nothing or very minimal work.
I don't mind working in govt sector (actually I like to) but it's harder to get in. Most jobs are for people who have connections.
Most job hires are not transparent. Even though I worked and have few (useless) connections, I found that it's tough to get your foot in.
OP if you have job prospects in public sector, I would say go for it.
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Jan 27, 2004
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ironbrah wrote: My Buddy work in Gov, he msgs me on wahtsapp during work to tell me that he is watching movie on Ipad. and he makes like 75k in Ontario.
Must work in the same department as my other buddy.
He goes to work and clocks in. Then he goes home to take a nap, afterwards he plays video games all day and runs errands. He comes back to work to clock out @ 5pm and gets paid $300k/yr and gets 20 weeks vacation.
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Apr 21, 2004
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Wpegger wrote: This might be little extreme...But things like these does happen.
I had chance of working in a govt department on a 6 month term position and made few observations.
-People take breaks upto 3-4 hr
-some even go for gym, shopping, home etc
-Talking/gossiping with others or on the phone
-Few are very dumb or incompetent (say don't even have basic skills in MS office) and expect to spoon feed everything before they can go out and perform their duties.
-Some work hard (even harder than private sector)<--few and far in between
What I found was, in that particular dept, there are people being paid upwards of 80k plus benefits, just for doing nothing or very minimal work.
I don't mind working in govt sector (actually I like to) but it's harder to get in. Most jobs are for people who have connections.
Most job hires are not transparent. Even though I worked and have few (useless) connections, I found that it's tough to get your foot in.
OP if you have job prospects in public sector, I would say go for it.
In my opinion, these things like watching movies during work hours people shouldn't even brag about. Of course, most of us do surf the web once in a while but spending a few hours on those activities is just a little excessive.

The past few positions I had were good experience-wise but didn't afford good work life balance. When I first joined a public audit firm, managers would work staff to the bone and did not want to mentor us. I still remember being dragged to the satellite office a few times by my manager on Saturdays but I played along ungrudgingly. The next job I had should have been better (or so I thought) at one of the Big 5 bank, if not for the poisoned environment, where management seem to focus on the mistakes (even if not wholly attributable to staff) rather than value overall loyalty, commitment and dedication. Peers would back stab each other to look good and get ahead. I mean, who doesn't make mistakes? During the meet and greet with the newly transferred AVP middle of last year, when he asked what I thought about the group, I informed him about how unfair the feedback/performance evaluation are where negative remarks are not even vetted and I had to defend against each of them after every audit engagement. Once I successfully demonstrate most were baseless, they go back to my audit file to dig up a few more mistakes! Then he asked me to enumerate five of my weaknesses! I don't know if he was acting stupid or not but what a way to get to know your staff and leave a lasting unfavorable impression. There were a few good managers and senior managers but I would say at least 40-50% were bad apples, out to lookout for themselves or their favorites, 30% were so-so and only 20% were really ones you can trust and pledge your allegiance to.

I just recently joined eHealth Ontario, which was but one of four government and/or agencies that interviewed me earlier this year. I got a reject from the OPS and City of Brampton and still awaiting a rejection from OLG. I know its past has been mired with controversies especially outside consultants being hired with compensation upwards of $300k but it's a welcome break to having always to be on my toes because of toxic and cut throat colleagues (I am not even ambitious and would never offend anyone unless I'm on the defense already -- who would be crazy enough not to defend oneself when pushed into the corner?).

From what I observed during my first week, people do work hard enough, are much friendlier with everyone, and are generally more upbeat coming to the office. I'm not sure how secure my job will be but I'd play it by ear and just work as hard as my other two jobs. Hopefully, there changes on the top will make it a better place to work going forward. I did read all of the reviews by current and past employees on glassdoor and one other job site and people do complain about the lack of career advancement or that projects rarely get completed on time or at all. I'm really not that ambitious and if I am suppose to advance by stepping on everyone below me and at my level, I might as well just stay where I am and contribute to the best of my abilities.
Penalty Box
Mar 27, 2004
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Toronto
I can speak from my experience working in the Federal government. I was a indeterminate employee for over 2 years, so anyone who works in the government would know indeterminate pretty much means a job for life. I left the position as I eventually got bored.
There are people that do work hard, but many who do not. Many abuse their various types of absences that they can use, whether its sick days, family days, or personal days. People are entitled to their entitlements, especially in the government. I would say for a good 6 months before I left, I was calling in sick or showing up for half days every week.

I personally took very long lunch breaks, 2 to 3 hours long on a regular basis. There are days where I did very little to no work, just surf RFD all day, and online shopping. However, I cannot say this applies to all, especially if you are a front line worker or working in a call centre; you are constantly monitored in a call centre. I would say the employees that work in the office jobs behind the scenes, where they do not have contact with the public are the jobs where you can get away with doing nothing for large parts of the day.

Befriending managers is very helpful in getting promotions or acting positions. There is a lot of nepotism in the government..
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Jun 6, 2013
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oasis100 wrote: I can speak my experience working in the Federal government. I was a indeterminate employee for over 2 years, so anyone who works in the government would know indeterminate pretty much means a job for life. I left the position as I eventually got bored.
There are people that do work hard, but many who do not. Many abuse their various types of absences that they can use, whether its sick days, family days, or personal days. People are entitled to their entitlements, especially in the government. I would say for a good 6 months before I left, I was calling in sick or showing up for half days every week.

I personally took very long lunch breaks, 2 to 3 hours long on a regular basis. There are days where I did very little to no work, just surf RFD all day, and online shopping. However, I cannot say this applies to all, especially if you are a front line worker or working in a call centre, you are constantly monitor. I would say the employees that work in the office jobs behind the scenes, where they do not have contact with the public are the jobs where you can get away with doing nothing for large parts of the day.

Befriending managers is very helpful in getting promotions or acting positions. There is a lot of nepotism in the government..
Sounds like my experience at federal government. It was my first job out of school and I was excited and hyped to get on some real work. Little did I know, I almost had nothing to do most days. Spent so much time surfing the internet. Never read so many wikipedia articles in my life. I tried to keep myself busy and I would ask my manager for more work almost every week. The people I worked with perfected the government life; some of my coworkers fed me crap like they stayed up until 2 AM to finish a PowerPoint that was almost entirely made up of information/charts/data that I gave to them in a report. I eventually started taking 1 hour lunch breaks which turned into 1.5 hours, etc. Luckily I worked downtown so I could at least go shopping. No one cared and pretty much all my coworkers did the same. Someone on my team would be on the phone for maybe 2-3 hours a day on personal calls speaking Mandarin. Truthfully, I would never go back to government except maybe near retirement where I can join the rest of the employees on hour long coffee breaks and talk about our kids.

But yeah, I agree with you, front line workers for government do seem to work hard. I feel bad every time I have to go to Service Ontario/Canada at City Hall in Toronto or at Bay/College. The traffic there is insane and just non-stop.
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Sep 21, 2004
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JuniorMint wrote: Sounds like my experience at federal government. It was my first job out of school and I was excited and hyped to get on some real work. Little did I know, I almost had nothing to do most days. Spent so much time surfing the internet. Never read so many wikipedia articles in my life. I tried to keep myself busy and I would ask my manager for more work almost every week. The people I worked with perfected the government life; some of my coworkers fed me crap like they stayed up until 2 AM to finish a PowerPoint that was almost entirely made up of information/charts/data that I gave to them in a report. I eventually started taking 1 hour lunch breaks which turned into 1.5 hours, etc. Luckily I worked downtown so I could at least go shopping. No one cared and pretty much all my coworkers did the same. Someone on my team would be on the phone for maybe 2-3 hours a day on personal calls speaking Mandarin. Truthfully, I would never go back to government except maybe near retirement where I can join the rest of the employees on hour long coffee breaks and talk about our kids.

But yeah, I agree with you, front line workers for government do seem to work hard. I feel bad every time I have to go to Service Ontario/Canada at City Hall in Toronto or at Bay/College. The traffic there is insane and just non-stop.
Sums like my experience as well. Front line workers work their butt off whether in call centre or counter, whereas back end employees got lots of slacks.

And just my personal experience, municipal government jobs are more fun (more variation) than Federal government jobs.
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Mar 10, 2011
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The chances of a public sector employee being let go are ultra low...less than 1percent actually at .6%.
Private sector employees are let go at a rate of 3.8%...a six fold greater chance than a public sector employee..which means a > 600% chance of being let go compared to a public sector employee.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/the-pub...rity-1.1225327

With union protection, job security provisions..ie jobs for life clauses in collective bargaining agreements, government jobs are extremely secure.
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Anonymouse wrote: All you have to do is look at the current Ontario debt to know that provincial public sector jobs are a bit shaky. The only question is whether they can accomplish the cuts through natural attrition, or whether there will be actual layoffs.
I totally agree the Ontario's debt may be unsustainable but it seems it can still raise debt in the capital markets:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-o ... e24075688/
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Sep 23, 2007
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On AVERAGE the government job is more secure. You will always find exceptions depending on which organization and department you work in. And being in a union obviously will make it more secure. I've worked in a hospital and I personally find the work culture much more laid back. I currently work in a for profit company and the culture is different. I wouldn't say we have a hard-working attitude. In the private sector, it's definitely more about what you bring to the table. As long as you are adding value without causing inconvenience to the team, you can take as long of a lunch break as you want. Whereas in the hospital, people don't get fired unless something big happens.

Sometimes a job is easy because the people above overestimated the work load. Sometimes a simple technological change can reduce workload. As and accountant, I can see that computers and software have definitely reduced the amount of manual work. Even journal entries and expense reports are starting to be more automated. Sometimes the workload is reduced, but the manager is old and doesn't understand. The worker pretends to be busy.
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Oct 20, 2011
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I worked for all: private, public and non-profit. I would say non-profit and public are similar when private is more like 'I am paying you for every min you are at work. Even you have nothing to do, you have to pretend you are busy to make me feel better.'
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Jun 12, 2015
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JuniorMint wrote: Sounds like my experience at federal government. It was my first job out of school and I was excited and hyped to get on some real work. Little did I know, I almost had nothing to do most days. Spent so much time surfing the internet. Never read so many wikipedia articles in my life. I tried to keep myself busy and I would ask my manager for more work almost every week. The people I worked with perfected the government life; some of my coworkers fed me crap like they stayed up until 2 AM to finish a PowerPoint that was almost entirely made up of information/charts/data that I gave to them in a report. I eventually started taking 1 hour lunch breaks which turned into 1.5 hours, etc. Luckily I worked downtown so I could at least go shopping. No one cared and pretty much all my coworkers did the same. Someone on my team would be on the phone for maybe 2-3 hours a day on personal calls speaking Mandarin. Truthfully, I would never go back to government except maybe near retirement where I can join the rest of the employees on hour long coffee breaks and talk about our kids.

But yeah, I agree with you, front line workers for government do seem to work hard. I feel bad every time I have to go to Service Ontario/Canada at City Hall in Toronto or at Bay/College. The traffic there is insane and just non-stop.
Can I ask what your job entailed with the government? I'm getting the sense government employees both provincial and federal aren't given enough work or have bad work ethics. Seems great for the employee maybe but looks like a huge waste of tax money and efficiency.

Just curious cause I'm joining the federal government to get my CPA designation
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Nov 15, 2008
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Dynasty12345 wrote: Can I ask what your job entailed with the government? I'm getting the sense government employees both provincial and federal aren't given enough work or have bad work ethics. Seems great for the employee maybe but looks like a huge waste of tax money and efficiency.

Just curious cause I'm joining the federal government full time. Disclosure it's with the Ag of Canada.
It really depends in what area you are working. If you are dealing directly with the public (managing inquiries, files, etc, of certain individuals) you won't be idle. Professionals like lawyers always have lots to do. But in the amorphous "policy analyst" or "program manager" type roles there can be a lot of make-work assignments and stretches where there is not much to do.

And yes, there are a lot of slackers in government. It's really pathetic in a lot of cases.

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