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Government perhaps taking a stand against teachers?

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  • Feb 23rd, 2020 4:08 pm
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Dec 27, 2011
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With all the talk about how good the teacher's pensions are, can someone explain just how good it is?
How much are they generally expected to get once retired? Or what's the formula to figure out how much they get?
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Mar 11, 2016
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moofur wrote: You're telling me to "be relevant" but to be "part of a union" lol.

The fact that you take that 1/4 statistic at face value speaks volumes about your lack of understanding of the real world. As @rb said, take away the crown corporations, agencies and government jobs and let's see how the numbers look. There's a reason all of the big banks have transitioned to a DC plan.
I disagree..I am only stating to anyone that wants to be in a DB plan that they can do so..or if they want a unionized job that they can get one...

I am not telling people to become teachers...heck no..the pay sucks compared to tech and trades...I was in Banking 25 yrs...easy to make 100k in GTA ...I worked as a lowly financial advisor in a small town and still made 70k...my DVPs annual bonus was more than a new TDSB teacher salary ...

My son went to college for 12 mths...heavy equip tech with CAT...paying into a pension at age 18...started making over 100k at age 21....my daughter just finished 4 yr comp sci...85 k plus bonus = over $100 k at age 21.....either of them would be nuts to go to school for 6 years at a cost of 120k to work part time for several years and make 50k??? and not get to 100k for 10 years?? nuts...
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Dec 27, 2013
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rb wrote: I'll guarantee you most of those people are working for the government or organizations where they are monopolies and aren't subject to any kind of competition
What you don't realize with "monopolies" is that it goes both ways. If a lawyer isn't happy with their law firm, they have the option to move into an identical position somewhere else. Private sector professionals can and do use offers of employment from competitors as leverage to improve their own compensation and/or working conditions. I don't have those options. The only leverage I have is the one legally provided for me by virtue of being in a union.
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OntEdTchr wrote: What you don't realize with "monopolies" is that it goes both ways. If a lawyer isn't happy with their law firm, they have the option to move into an identical position somewhere else. Private sector professionals can and do use offers of employment from competitors as leverage to improve their own compensation and/or working conditions. I don't have those options. The only leverage I have is the one legally provided for me by virtue of being in a union.
Very different situation they have to show their worth and that's only open to over performers. In government job the slackers get the same pay as the top performers hence there is no incentive to do anything other than the bear minimum.
http://www.heatware.com/eval.php?id=14378

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Mar 11, 2016
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crystallight wrote: With all the talk about how good the teacher's pensions are, can someone explain just how good it is?
How much are they generally expected to get once retired? Or what's the formula to figure out how much they get?
it is no better than any other public pension plan in Canada...best 5 years avg salary...70%
Heck...OPP is best 3 yrs 70% so its actually a better plan.

What makes it stand out it is the size of it....
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OntEdTchr wrote: We're not paid by hourly wage. My pay stub shows my annual salary and earnings for the pay period based on the calculations above.
Ok then based on say compensation of 90k as you said that's over 194 days so that's $463 per day divided that by 8 hr day that's $57 per hour which approximates to $114 k on typical work year for the general public ? Is that a reasonable assertion?
http://www.heatware.com/eval.php?id=14378

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Fjr2005 wrote: it is no better than any other public pension plan in Canada...best 5 years avg salary...70%
Heck...OPP is best 3 yrs 70% so its actually a better plan.

What makes it stand out it is the size of it....
So if the average teacher salary is 90k (that seems like a common number thrown around but I could be wrong), then that means the average top 5 years should be more than 90k. Let's say 100k which means the pension is worth 70k per year? Wow...I wish I had that. Add in CPP/OAS which I'd imagine is another 20+k and you're looking at $90+k per year in retirement. I'm...insanely jealous of public pension plans...
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rb wrote: Ok then based on say compensation of 90k as you said that's over 194 days so that's $463 per day divided that by 8 hr day that's $57 per hour which approximates to $114 k on typical work year for the general public ? Is that a reasonable assertion?
I spend more than 40 hours per week doing my job. My payment is calculated over 194 teaching days. I don't work just 194 days a year. I've been at my desk for 3 hours already today planning a math unit.

Everyone tries to break down teaching to an hourly wage and it's not that simple. There are times that are busier than others. Different subjects or assignments require different amounts of time. Extracurricular must be factored in. Experience in a certain assignment. I know it's normal to try to simplify complex systems to help us understand them but it's not always possible.
Last edited by OntEdTchr on Feb 22nd, 2020 1:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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rb wrote: Very different situation they have to show their worth and that's only open to over performers. In government job the slackers get the same pay as the top performers hence there is no incentive to do anything other than the bear minimum.
Well, moving to another company isn't just open to top performers. It's also a lot more difficult to measure performance in education. But even though there's no incentive to do anything but the bare minimum, most of us do. It's called pride. Otherwise, no teams would ever be coached, no clubs would ever be supervised, no trips would ever be scheduled, no recesses ever given up, no yearbooks created no assemblies planned etc. The teacher that doesn't do any of those things gets the same pay as the teacher that does, so you tell me, why do those things get done?
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Dec 27, 2014
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Toronto, ON
Fjr2005 wrote: it is no better than any other public pension plan in Canada...best 5 years avg salary...70%
Heck...OPP is best 3 yrs 70% so its actually a better plan.

What makes it stand out it is the size of it....
I could be wrong, but I believe they get the 70% after 35 years. Earliest possible retirement at 30 years with 60% (I think a lot take that route).

Also, someone mentioned adding CPP but if again I'm not mistaken, the CPP amount gets deducted from their pension.
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Mar 11, 2016
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crystallight wrote: So if the average teacher salary is 90k (that seems like a common number thrown around but I could be wrong), then that means the average top 5 years should be more than 90k. Let's say 100k which means the pension is worth 70k per year? Wow...I wish I had that. Add in CPP/OAS which I'd imagine is another 20+k and you're looking at $90+k per year in retirement. I'm...insanely jealous of public pension plans...
public pensions, indeed any defined benefit plan is good...their days are numbered...they will eventually be phased out, including in the public sector....

if I recall that 70% includes CPP .I could be wrong...at age 65 their pension is reduced by the equivalent of maximum CPP .. $14k/yr

can't use 100 k as best 5...most teachers are not at the max cat 4 to make 100k...

another way to look at it...a teacher making 90k will contribute approx 10,000 per year into their pension

If I had a job that a defined contribution RRSP and my employer matches my contribution(which is very common) that would be a contribution of 20,000 per year into my rrsp
If I average say 6% over 30 years from age 25 to 55 you will end up with $$1,581,000.....this will provide you with $9k/month income from age 55 to 85 plus CPP =
$10,100/month

pretty sweet.
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Feb 16, 2016
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moofur wrote: You know the few of you "die hard" teacher fans are all just talking to yourselves in an echo chamber right? No amount of reasoning or common sense would get through to you especially when the few of you seem to have zero clue about how DB pensions, personal finances or how the tax act works and operates. One can't even seem to string together proper sentences using appropriate punctuation and I'm being the one labelled "uneducated". Another calls any teacher who doesn't support the union a liar, and the last calls anyone who doesn't support teachers jealous. It's no wonder we don't deserve good government.
If you’re referring to me, well English isn’t my native language. I’m French Canadian and teach in a French school board.
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Mar 3, 2018
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OntEdTchr wrote: Well, moving to another company isn't just open to top performers. It's also a lot more difficult to measure performance in education. But even though there's no incentive to do anything but the bare minimum, most of us do. It's called pride. Otherwise, no teams would ever be coached, no clubs would ever be supervised, no trips would ever be scheduled, no recesses ever given up, no yearbooks created no assemblies planned etc. The teacher that doesn't do any of those things gets the same pay as the teacher that does, so you tell me, why do those things get done?
This is what I find interesting. Why are these things not part of the job description. Seems these are duties that should be performed by teachers. Was the union at some point able to negotiate these out of the contract.
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OntEdTchr wrote: I spend more than 40 hours per week doing my job. My payment is calculated over 194 teaching days. I don't work just 194 days a year. I've been at my desk for 3 hours already today planning a math unit.

Everyone tries to break down teaching to an hourly wage and it's not that simple. There are times that are busier than others. Different subjects or assignments require different amounts of time. Extracurricular must be factored in. Experience in a certain assignment. I know it's normal to try to simplify complex systems to help us understand them but it's not always possible.
Yes I've been working this morning as well and will do some work tomorrow, professionals do work outside of hours ...expected these days.
http://www.heatware.com/eval.php?id=14378

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OntEdTchr wrote: Well, moving to another company isn't just open to top performers. It's also a lot more difficult to measure performance in education. But even though there's no incentive to do anything but the bare minimum, most of us do. It's called pride. Otherwise, no teams would ever be coached, no clubs would ever be supervised, no trips would ever be scheduled, no recesses ever given up, no yearbooks created no assemblies planned etc. The teacher that doesn't do any of those things gets the same pay as the teacher that does, so you tell me, why do those things get done?
That together with report cards should be part of the job..that's just my opinion of course you're entitled to yours
http://www.heatware.com/eval.php?id=14378

Ole Gunnar IN!!!!


I promise not to cut your taxes but I won't raise them either.

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