Home & Garden

The Great Water Heater Rental Scam

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  • Oct 22nd, 2018 9:59 am
Deal Addict
Dec 5, 2009
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aqnd wrote:
Oct 28th, 2017 11:31 am
They come in both 1 and 2 pipe models. You would want the two pipe model.


Any house that has a chimney is old enough to already be very leaky and have lots of air exchange even without a hole in your house.
Any new house you would not be able to add a chimney, only side wall direct vent. In which case the point is moot, you're going to have the choice of powered or unpowered direct vent anyway.
Heating season is the single largest cost of energy in our homes, I wouldn't discount something by saying it only matters during heating season. That's when it matters the most if you're talking about reducing energy costs.
I'm just saying it's hard to quantify. not all atmospheric vent through a masonry chimney. Some vent through a b vent through the roof.

Power vents only vent to the outside. I think you are referring to a direct vent? In any case you are now looking at even more money for the install and the unit itself for a unit using outside air for combustion.

In a new home, it's definitely moot. And frankly it's much cheaper for builders to power vent than put in b vent so it's not even an options for lots of reasons.

But for someone to switch from atmospheric to PV, expecting to save money? the ROI is just not there to make the decision based on cost savings. There are other factors to consider of course.
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Dec 5, 2009
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P.S. Please link me to a power vent that uses outside air for combustion. Very curious as I've never see such a model before. As far as I know only a direct vent does this. And they are very expensive.
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Apr 20, 2011
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fdl wrote:
Oct 28th, 2017 11:36 am
But for someone to switch from atmospheric to PV, expecting to save money? the ROI is just not there to make the decision based on cost savings. There are other factors to consider of course.
I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing here, I'm just saying someone making this decision, cannot say the ROI is not there based on what was mentioned by others - they've not accounted for all variables.
They would need to account for the difference in heat loss of their entire home, not just the $2/mo in operating costs of the unit itself. And I would guarantee it's more than the $0 currently allocated.
Get a proper heat loss calculation on the home with the chimney + loss of inside air for combustion vs sealed outside air combustion with no chimney.
Then they can make an accurate assessment of their situation.
fdl wrote:
Oct 28th, 2017 11:39 am
P.S. Please link me to a power vent that uses outside air for combustion. Very curious as I've never see such a model before. As far as I know only a direct vent does this. And they are very expensive.
There's a picture of one in this very thread. A user posted it, IIRC he was in Alberta.
Last edited by aqnd on Oct 28th, 2017 11:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
Deal Addict
Dec 5, 2009
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aqnd wrote:
Oct 28th, 2017 11:40 am
I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing here, I'm just saying someone making this decision, cannot say the ROI is not there based on what was mentioned by others - they've not accounted for all variables.
They would need to account for the difference in heat loss of their entire home, not just the $2/mo in operating costs of the unit itself. And I would guarantee it's more than the $0 currently allocated.
Sure. But It might be close to zero. We don't know. And again You still have some amount of air infiltration with a PV. And we haven't even touched electrical cost of running the PV, those aweful 6 year warranties and that they fail early and are expensive to fix.
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Dec 5, 2009
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It's a long thread so I'm not going searching. But your standard PV, the one pretty much everyone is buying does not use outside air for combustion.
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Anyways. I don't mean to be argumentative either and I think we agree there is lots to consider. People should do their homework. unfortunately , based on research I've done there doesn't appear to be any consensus amongst experts on the ROI question (specifically, when switching).
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fdl wrote:
Oct 28th, 2017 11:46 am
It's a long thread so I'm not going searching. But your standard PV, the one pretty much everyone is buying does not use outside air for combustion.
Doesn't mean there aren't better options.

Ask Mike how it's going.
water-heater-replacement-recommendation ... #p27284013
Apparently $950 from home hardware, so ~$100 more than the "regular" one.
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aqnd wrote:
Oct 28th, 2017 11:58 am
Doesn't mean there aren't better options.

Ask Mike how it's going.
water-heater-replacement-recommendation ... #p27284013
Apparently $950 from home hardware, so ~$100 more than the "regular" one.
Ok, so as I mentioned that is a direct vent , not a power vent, which is what the original debate centred around.

I agree direct vent is a great option. But again it's much more expensive to buy and install so ROI is questionable if you are converting. For example If you are satisfied with a 6 year warranty you can get a 50 gallon atmospheric on sale for around $500.
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fdl wrote:
Oct 28th, 2017 12:03 pm
Ok, so as I mentioned that is a direct vent , not a power vent, which is what the original debate centred around.
That is a power vent with two pipes (in and out).
This is a direct vent (no power)
Image
http://www.gsw-wh.com/en/products/direct-vent

I have no desire to carry on this pointless conversation, I've said what needs to be said.
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Dec 5, 2009
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aqnd wrote:
Oct 28th, 2017 12:19 pm
That is a power vent with two pipes (in and out).
This is a direct vent (no power)
Image
http://www.gsw-wh.com/en/products/direct-vent

I have no desire to carry on this pointless conversation, I've said what needs to be said.
Regardless... Direct vent or "power direct vent" my point stands on negligible or even worse ROI if switching over from an atmospheric. And neither of those are units the vast majority of people are getting in their homes or are the unit the original poster was contemplating. Which is the regular PV that uses indoor air for combustion and therefore still suffers from some air infiltration.

Ultimately everyone should do their own homework. Below I will link a fairly good article to start with. Cheers.

http://structuretech1.com/water-heater- ... r-heaters/
Newbie
Feb 4, 2017
75 posts
10 upvotes
Probably this was discussed before but i could not found any reliable answer for it...


I bought a new home and while signing agreement i had also signed paper given by builder mentioning they are putting hit water rental with Cricket comfort. I did not realize this during that time as i am first time home buyer. Monthly rental is $41/month and 1st year buyout is $3400 which is totally rip off.
I dont want to pay $40 each month tank rental. but i am not sure about my option as i have already signed annexure in agreement. I dont think its agreement with cricket comfort .
I am wondering what are my option. ANyone faced this kind of scenarios ? and what did they do?
Can i ask cricket comfort to remove tank as i dont want their service?
Deal Addict
Dec 19, 2009
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bhushh009 wrote:
Oct 28th, 2017 10:32 pm
Probably this was discussed before but i could not found any reliable answer for it...


I bought a new home and while signing agreement i had also signed paper given by builder mentioning they are putting hit water rental with Cricket comfort. I did not realize this during that time as i am first time home buyer. Monthly rental is $41/month and 1st year buyout is $3400 which is totally rip off.
I dont want to pay $40 each month tank rental. but i am not sure about my option as i have already signed annexure in agreement. I dont think its agreement with cricket comfort .
I am wondering what are my option. ANyone faced this kind of scenarios ? and what did they do?
Can i ask cricket comfort to remove tank as i dont want their service?
You might want to read contracts and understand them before you sign them next time.
Deal Expert
Aug 2, 2004
28809 posts
4065 upvotes
East Gwillimbury
bhushh009 wrote:
Oct 28th, 2017 10:32 pm
Probably this was discussed before but i could not found any reliable answer for it...


I bought a new home and while signing agreement i had also signed paper given by builder mentioning they are putting hit water rental with Cricket comfort. I did not realize this during that time as i am first time home buyer. Monthly rental is $41/month and 1st year buyout is $3400 which is totally rip off.
I dont want to pay $40 each month tank rental. but i am not sure about my option as i have already signed annexure in agreement. I dont think its agreement with cricket comfort .
I am wondering what are my option. ANyone faced this kind of scenarios ? and what did they do?
Can i ask cricket comfort to remove tank as i dont want their service?
First, call your gas company and tell them to block third party billing. Cricket does not invoice directly.

Second, call Cricket Home Comfort, they will send you a copy of the contract. Look at schedule A for the buy out. Tell them that you are not interested in the rental and that you wish to buy out the contract. Tell Cricket that you want the builder's price for the buy out.

It should be less than $3400

If you have not paid a gas bill, then you may still have an out. If you have made any payments to Cricket, then you basically accepted the contract.

If you read the fine print. Cricket reserves the right to increase the rental annually. You may be paying $40 this year, next year could be $45

Cricket contracts are 15 years. $180 x $40 = $7200 and that is assuming there are no price increases.
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User avatar
Apr 21, 2004
45525 posts
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How much amps do the typical gas water tank heater run on?

If it says 30 amps, does it really reach that high a current during its operation?
Deal Expert
Aug 2, 2004
28809 posts
4065 upvotes
East Gwillimbury
alanbrenton wrote:
Oct 31st, 2017 5:04 pm
How much amps do the typical gas water tank heater run on?

If it says 30 amps, does it really reach that high a current during its operation?
I would be really surprised if the power vent used that much power.

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