The Ground Zero Grassy Knoll(911) - NY Magazine

[hagbard]

Good overview read on the conspiracy theories surrounding 9/11. I'm a subscriber to 3(c) with a touch of Mossad foreknowledge with resulting knowledge by the Bush Administration.

March 27, 2006 issue of New York Magazine (9 pages):

http://newyorkmetro.com/news/features/16464/index.html

[will1087]

cool read.

[Crotchety Old Man]

That's a pretty level-headed overview of the "conspiracy" theories.

[FastFokker]

That's a pretty level-headed overview of the "conspiracy" theories.

OooooOooo! This sounds good, I'll be reading it tonight.

[hagbard]

Wow, only three people read this?

[xKagex]

I'm a MIHOP (made it happen) believer, although I believe there's a lot more to it than "the american government". The fact that the world's elite are obsessed with the occult (the twin towers and the 9/11 date are more examples of this occultist obsession), means that it's yet another move towards a global government. I guess you can think of this as PNAC, Project for the New American Century. http://www.newamericancentury.org/

Hopefully we can throw some wrenches into the machine and at the very least slow them down.

But the proles, if only they could somehow become conscious of their own strength, would have no need to conspire. They needed only to rise up and shake themselves like a horse shaking off flies. If they chose they could blow the Party to pieces tomorrow morning. Surely sooner or later it must occur to them to do it? - George Orwell

[poedua]

I'm a MIHOP (made it happen) believer, although I believe there's a lot more to it than "the american government". The fact that the world's elite are obsessed with the occult (the twin towers and the 9/11 date are more examples of this occultist obsession), means that it's yet another move towards a global government. I guess you can think of this as PNAC, Project for the New American Century. http://www.newamericancentury.org/

Hopefully we can throw some wrenches into the machine and at the very least slow them down.

But the proles, if only they could somehow become conscious of their own strength, would have no need to conspire. They needed only to rise up and shake themselves like a horse shaking off flies. If they chose they could blow the Party to pieces tomorrow morning. Surely sooner or later it must occur to them to do it? - George Orwell

Good quote...here's one from a bumper sticker i saw...

" The complete lack of evidence is the surest sign that the conspiracy is working."

...which gets to the heart of all these conspiracy theories. They all suffer from the fallacy ad ignorantiam - or arguing from ignorance. This fallacy occurs when conspiracists claim their theory is true simply because it can't be refuted. Trouble is, a lack of arguments against their claims is certainly no support for the them : the burden of proof is always upon the conspiracists making the claims as to the "real truth " behind 9/11.

[xKagex]

Good quote...here's one from a bumper sticker i saw...

" The complete lack of evidence is the surest sign that the conspiracy is working."

...which gets to the heart of all these conspiracy theories. They all suffer from the fallacy ad ignorantiam - or arguing from ignorance. This fallacy occurs when conspiracists claim their theory is true simply because it can't be refuted. Trouble is, a lack of arguments against their claims is certainly no support for the them : the burden of proof is always upon the conspiracists making the claims as to the "real truth " behind 9/11.

You're entitled to your opinions, whatever those might be (I guess we'll all keep guessing). Personally, I don't much care about where the burden of proof lies. I think the mountains of evidence against the official story should be enough for anyone to do their own research and come to much the same conclusion as the rest of us "conspiracy theorists".

I don't have the time or energy to convince people that I'm right, I just know I'll do whatever it takes to protect myself and my family from tyranny. I actually do love freedom, not this farce where we've done nothing but give up freedoms for the sake of so-called security.

Come on Poedua, tell us what you really think, we'd all like to know.

[poedua]

You're entitled to your opinions, whatever those might be (I guess we'll all keep guessing). Personally, I don't much care about where the burden of proof lies. I think the mountains of evidence against the official story should be enough for anyone to do their own research and come to much the same conclusion as the rest of us "conspiracy theorists".

My conclusion. I know of no evidence to even remotely suggest a conspiracy theory...if you have some...give me the Top 10 pieces of evidence that prove it.


There's no evidence to support any conspiracy whatsoever - that's the point. Not to mention any "alleged " conspiracy would have to of involved - either directly to cover it up , or to be stymied by those doing the cover-up - a conspiracy touching on the active investigation inolving a few thousand people .

Thousands from of conspirators from ...

- the State department,
-the defense department -
- the CIA,
- the FBI,
- the FAA,
- the NTSB,
- the NYPD,
- NYTFD,
- the NY Port Authority,
- the US Air Force,
- US Special Forces,
- airlines and their staff,
- WTC staff ,
- countless salvage clean-up companies
- and on and on and on .

Suffice it to say, paranoid conspiracy theories are the defining example of irrational thinking IMO.

I don't have the time or energy to convince people that I'm right, I just know I'll do whatever it takes to protect myself and my family from tyranny.

Protect my family from tyranny ? You read too many comic books IMO. Ease up on the paranoia ....the world isn't out to GET YOU....really !

Keep it simple. Pay the mortgage, and provide your family with good health and a good education ....there really isn't a lot of time left to "protect them from tryranny " ...leave the 'tyranny fighting " to all those sceret agents / special forces / super heroes out there

Come on Poedua, tell us what you really think, we'd all like to know.

Simple some nut jobs exploited the lax US airport security ( and rules on flight training ) and flew planes into the WTC and the Pentagon.

Now you tell me...one question - i thought palnes brorught the WTCs down...what do you think brought them down ?

[asim99]

I don't have the time or energy to convince people that I'm right, I just know I'll do whatever it takes to protect myself and my family from tyranny. I actually do love freedom, not this farce where we've done nothing but give up freedoms for the sake of so-called security.

amen to that, brother!

[poedua]

amen to that, brother!

How's life under the porch ?

[xKagex]

Simple some nut jobs exploited the lax US airport security ( and rules on flight training ) and flew planes into the WTC and the Pentagon.

don't forget building 7.. oh wait, that was never hit by a plane.

Anyway, some things for people to research, I guess:

1. Air force stand-down
The FAA, NORAD and the military have cooperative procedures by which fighter jets intercept commercial aircraft under emergency conditions. These procedures were not followed.

2. Bush's complicit behaviour
"My cell phone rang as President Bush's motorcade coursed toward Emma E. Booker Elementary School in Sarasota, Fla. A colleague reported that a plane had crashed into the World Trade Center in New York. No further information.

He then goes on to read stories to children (endangering their lives, if the country was really being attacked) for another 25 minutes.

3. The fictitious Hijackers
If 19 Arabs hijacked the planes, why are there no Arabic names on any of the passenger lists? If they used non-Arabic aliases, which of the "innocents" on the lists are alleged to be the hijackers?

If they are alleged to have been using non-Arabic aliases (19 obviously Arabic men got on board using non-Arabic ID, with 100% success rate?), why did the FBI claim that they were traced through the use of credit cards to buy tickets in their own names?

4. No evidence against Bin Laden
Why is it that the US government doesn't feel confident enough of it's case against Bin laden to lay any formal charges, but keeps "finding" convenient video "confession" tapes?

"I stress that I have not carried out this act, which appears to have been carried out by individuals with their own motivation," said the statement, broadcast by Qatar's Al-Jazeera satellite channel.

5. Insider Trading reveals foreknowledge
In the first few hours after the attacks, it was reported that investigators were already looking into huge volumes of insider trading on airline stocks in the weeks leading up to the attacks.

6. Pentagon crash
It is alleged that that American Airlines 77 (a hijacked Boeing 757) crashed into the Pentagon. A Boeing 757 is a very large aircraft with a wingspan of 125 ft and a length of 155 ft. So how did it make an initial hole 12 ft wide, collapsing only about a 35 ft depth of the outer ring of the building - and not leave any wreckage outside?

7. If the attack on Afghanistan was retaliation, why was it planned months earlier?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/1550366.stm

8. US and Bin Laden co-operate behind the scenes
An article in the French daily Le Figaro confirms that Osama bin Laden underwent surgery in an American Hospital in Dubai in July.

During his stay in the hospital, he met with a CIA official. While on the World's "most wanted list", no attempt was made to arrest him during his two week stay in the hospital, shedding doubt on the Administration's resolve to track down Osama bin Laden.


9. Suspicious collapse of the WTC towers
How did the WTC collapse? Why no serious inquiry? Why was the debris rushed away for recycling before any examination could be held?

Steel melts at 1539 degrees. Jet fuel (kerosene) burns at 800 degrees.

Probably hundreds of articles related to the actual physics of the collapse, and how it couldn't have happened simply by jet fuel.

10. Hands off Bin Laden
Why were the FBI told to not investigate the Bin Laden family links in the US?

11. Not so surprising
In 1962, the Joint Chiefs of Staff approved a CIA plan to commit terrorist acts against the U.S. and frame Cuba.

I have the de-classified document in front of me and they actually discuss using a hijacked plane and/or other terror attacks.

12. Who funded and created Al Queda?
13. Who created civil war in Afghanistan?
14. Why have moves towards an independant inquiry into 9/11 been resisted by the President/Vice President?



Your arguments that too many people would have had to be involved are nonsense. There were war-games happening on 9/11 and nobody had any idea that anything was wrong until planes started hitting buildings. These organizations are so compartmentalized that often people have no idea why they're doing what they're doing, and can't really see the result of their 'handiwork' until they can see the big picture.

[will1087]

stuff..

dude, poedua is just gonna ask more questions... the guy NEVER has a straight answer - dont even bother.

[hagbard]

dude, poedua is just gonna ask more questions... the guy NEVER has a straight answer - dont even bother.

The way to deal with him is to add him to your ignore list.

[FastFokker]

Edit: Made a thread about this. Click here to be re-directed!



It's Charlie Sheen going public about his (and most others) questions regarding the 9/11 Government coverup and was broadcasted by ShowBiz tonight (covered twice due to the huge interest):

Low Quality Streaming video:
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles...6alexvideo.htm
High Quality (Windows Media):
http://www.infowarsmedia.com/video/n...lex_032306.wmv
High Quality Torrent version:
http://www.********.org/tor/261551



During the interview of Alex Jones, he says to google "Operation Northwoods", so here it is:
http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=...e+Search&meta=

And a simplified version of "Operation Northwoods" from Wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

Here's an original article from PrisonPlanet:
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles...hallengeme.htm