Personal Finance

GTA Household Income to Live Modestly

  • Last Updated:
  • Dec 8th, 2018 4:48 pm
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Feb 28, 2008
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mech9t5 wrote:
Nov 25th, 2018 7:42 am
FYI squandered means wasted. I don't think you were trying to say that.

Some people think it was so easy for their parents cause houses were so cheap. It is not true at all.

My parents came to Toronto in the 80s. Interest rates for mortgages were as high as 21%. My parents were paying 12%. We had a 1600sqft house. It cost around 160000

Assume you put 20% down, your mortgage would be roughly 130k. At 12percent the monthly payment would be around $1350. Imagine you were unlucky and had a 21% rate? That same mortgage of 130k would be $2200

Next that was 80s dollars. This link shows $1 in 1988 is equal to $2.14 in 2018. (I just picked 30 years)

http://www.in2013dollars.com/1988-dolla ... 8?amount=1

That means a $1350 is actually closer to $2900 today. That's roughly $600k mortgage today.

So, in conclusion. It was as rough if not rougher back then compared to today. Salaries were a lot lower and interest was suffocating. At least in today's environment, the $2900 you spend is at least building a lot more principle.

When I grew up in Toronto we had no money for anything extra. Our family had 4 kids. I did not take ANY vacations. My first flying vacation was not until I made enough money to pay for it myself after university. During university any money I made went to paying tuition and books, etc. I was always envious of those who were able to take vacations in the summer and spring break.

I'm glad you realize what your parents did for you. Just remember when it is time to pay them back. My parents really didn't have much opportunity to save money so i have been giving them $500 a month since I could afford it (been 12 years now).

That way they can retire a bit more comfortably (they are in their 60s now). They are still frugal and don't want to take my money so they just save it. And they tell me they are putting it away "for me". But at least I know they have it if they ever need it.
Yeah, english was never my strongest subject in school.

To your latter point, we pretty much get taken care of as kids and later in life we swap roles pretty much.

The only time our parents give us money now is for Chinese new years lol.

Glad to say that my parents are happily retired and we just pay for random things here and there for them.

I roughly pay about the same to my parents as you but in groceries and such; only cash is for birthday. I dont give them cash normally because like you said, they're still living frugally and I have to force them to spend their money. With that thought, it makes more sense to just buy stuff for them.
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MyLoveForTofu wrote:
Nov 26th, 2018 7:07 am
Yeah, english was never my strongest subject in school.

To your latter point, we pretty much get taken care of as kids and later in life we swap roles pretty much.

The only time our parents give us money now is for Chinese new years lol.

Glad to say that my parents are happily retired and we just pay for random things here and there for them.

I roughly pay about the same to my parents as you but in groceries and such; only cash is for birthday. I dont give them cash normally because like you said, they're still living frugally and I have to force them to spend their money. With that thought, it makes more sense to just buy stuff for them.
Good man. Or woman. Lol

My parents now splurge on grand kids. Which is good for them but not so good for trying to raise a responsible kid...
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mech9t5 wrote:
Nov 25th, 2018 7:42 am
My parents really didn't have much opportunity to save money so i have been giving them $500 a month since I could afford it (been 12 years now).

That way they can retire a bit more comfortably (they are in their 60s now).

They are still frugal and don't want to take my money so they just save it. And they tell me they are putting it away "for me".

But at least I know they have it if they ever need it.
mech9t5 wrote:
Nov 26th, 2018 7:59 am

My parents now splurge on grand kids. Which is good for them but not so good for trying to raise a responsible kid...
blink, blink, are the two posts related?

you give money to your parents that need it that are "putting it away for you", in the meantime give it to their grandkids?

are your siblings also giving your/their parents money?

and at age 41 you have over $2 million in assets today !

dual income, one-child, one vehicle
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porticoman wrote:
Nov 26th, 2018 9:19 am
blink, blink, are the two posts related?

you give money to your parents that need it that are "putting it away for you", in the meantime give it to their grandkids?

are your siblings also giving your/their parents money?

and at age 41 you have over $2 million in assets today !

dual income, one-child, one vehicle
Getting a little personal now... lol. My siblings give them money on and off. I don't know how much or how often.

I'm not saying the NEED it. Given how frugal they are, they could survive without it. But, that means no vacations for them and no "splurging" on the grandkids. I think the problem you're having is the definition of splurging is relative. For my parents who are very frugal, splurging doesn't mean buying a crap ton of toys. It means buying 3 coloring books AND crayons for my kid. And even then, the coloring book was on sale for $0.50 each. Maybe it's playdoh from the dollar store. It's buying them Timbits and/or Mcflurry every week.

When I was a kid, we never ate out. KFC was our "treat" which was maybe once every couple months. Getting "things" every week when I was a kid? No way. The only time I ever got any new "thing" was on my birthday and at christmas. If it was "expensive", I would get 1 item for both christmas and birthday. Typical gifts were things like a transformer or a hot wheels car.
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mech9t5 wrote:
Nov 26th, 2018 10:19 am
Getting a little personal now... lol. My siblings give them money on and off. I don't know how much or how often.

I'm not saying the NEED it. Given how frugal they are, they could survive without it. But, that means no vacations for them and no "splurging" on the grandkids.
its not personal, its related to this thread, your posts & the other post that you made on the rat race thread

dealing & discussing just the pertinent points as it relates to the OP

"you are giving them $500/mth", that's admiral of you & you will also pay for your childs University

if you want to discuss separately your aged parents, we can do that & compare them to my wife & I as seniors age 71

back to the topic & OP

basic, basic lifestyle in the GTA, it's all about income & expenses & how much net income/disposable income folks need to live modestly (rent or mortgage) + day to day expenses without extra's,

on the other thread "rat race", I'm trying to figure out (seriously) how someone such as yourself & family situation, with the net assets that you have, sees or could relate to the OP?

would you say that you are poor, working class, middle class, upper middle class, one above that?

Given your personal situation & from where you started to where you are today - what do you say is the "household income to live modestly in the GTA" is or should be?

appreciate if you could post some numbers

thanks
Last edited by porticoman on Nov 26th, 2018 2:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Dec 4, 2016
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torcraw2014 wrote:
Nov 24th, 2018 12:21 am
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Yet another inner city Old Toronto urban ELITIST that has zero understanding of the mainstream suburban majority of the overall GTA whose hard working families works in the suburbs and wants nothing to do with or is nowhere near downtown Toronto and the TTC subway. The mainstream North American and GTA suburban lifestyle requires cars.
Actually I am assuming the family lives in suburbs, hence the one car and one TTC. There is usually some sort of bus services, no matter how infrequent. One adult spending 3-4 hours each day on public transit is my idea of modest life style. Of course the average RFD family makes 150k minimum for each spouse, so one vehicle for each driving age member of household is bare minimum.
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BlueSolstice wrote:
Nov 23rd, 2018 2:11 pm
A townhouse and 2 cars in GTA is a modest life style? 1 car plus a TTC pass would be modest in my definition, since it's GTA we're talking about, not Kingston or Ottawa.
No way man, you need a 40K Minivan and 40K CUV, both still under warranty ;).
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BlueSolstice wrote:
Nov 26th, 2018 10:38 am
One adult spending 3-4 hours each day on public transit is my idea of modest life style.
Really? Sounds like my idea of hell.
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BlueSolstice wrote:
Nov 26th, 2018 10:38 am
One adult spending 3-4 hours each day on public transit is my idea of modest life style.
1.5 - 2 hrs each way, I would consider that normal GTA living/commute time & if its driving it could be longer, thats the only life that I knew & that did not include the time away on overseas work related travel.

it was the life that I chose

I never figured out how I could get that dream job where I could walk to it, come home for lunch & be home at a decent time.

it was 'the job' that when I got home the kids were just going to bed or already there, then in the morning leaving the house while everyone else including my wife was still in bed

the only good thing was that I wasn't working shifts
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porticoman wrote:
Nov 26th, 2018 12:10 pm
1.5 - 2 hrs each way, I would consider that normal GTA living/commute time & if its driving it could be longer, thats the only life that I knew & that did not include the time away on overseas work related travel.

it was the life that I chose

I never figured out how I could get that dream job where I could walk to it, come home for lunch & be home at a decent time.

it was 'the job' that when I got home the kids were just going to bed or already there, then in the morning leaving the house while everyone else including my wife was still in bed

the only good thing was that I wasn't working shifts
I couldn't tolerate that. Too much wasted life for me. My commute is about 30 minutes (it would be a 15 minute drive without traffic), and can be quite a bit longer on a bad snow day, but I would say 30 minutes on average.
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Jun 23, 2017
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alanbrenton wrote:
Nov 23rd, 2018 5:05 pm
I would love to live with my parents.

Maybe he is paying the mortgage and has a $3m net worth by not buying his own place?

I would want to find out more details before I hand out my judgement.
no judging. his parents have owned their home since the 1980's and their mortgage has long been paid off.
Equivalent homes in their 'hood list and sell quickly at or just under $2.5M. He's an only child and will inherit this property eventually. Meanwhile, his parents cherish
having him live with them and he enjoys it too. I know he pays for the internet (he wants a higher speed than his parents had and was willing to pay for the upsize) and he pays for their Netflix. Not sure about groceries, but he eats out a lot on weeknights.
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905P4N6 wrote:
Nov 26th, 2018 1:20 pm
no judging. his parents have owned their home since the 1980's and their mortgage has long been paid off.
Equivalent homes in their 'hood list and sell quickly at or just under $2.5M. He's an only child and will inherit this property eventually. Meanwhile, his parents cherish
having him live with them and he enjoys it too. I know he pays for the internet (he wants a higher speed than his parents had and was willing to pay for the upsize) and he pays for their Netflix. Not sure about groceries, but he eats out a lot on weeknights.
Sounds like a win-win to me.

Hopefully he helps around the house a bit as his parents are probably in their mid to late 60's, if not in their 70's.
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[OP]
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BlueSolstice wrote:
Nov 26th, 2018 10:38 am
Actually I am assuming the family lives in suburbs, hence the one car and one TTC. There is usually some sort of bus services, no matter how infrequent. One adult spending 3-4 hours each day on public transit is my idea of modest life style. Of course the average RFD family makes 150k minimum for each spouse, so one vehicle for each driving age member of household is bare minimum.
1.5 hours each way is understandable but I would definitely say 2 hours each way might get to the point where it's quite draining. Assuming you're lucky enough to have a job that only requires 9 to 5 hours, with 2 hours commute each way, that becomes a 7am to 7pm job with about 2-3 hours to spare at best before you have to do it all over again the next day.
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Mar 22, 2017
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BlueSolstice wrote:
Nov 26th, 2018 10:38 am

Actually I am assuming the family lives in suburbs, hence the one car and one TTC. .
TTC is only in City of Toronto. Most of GTA suburbs is the 905, where transit is much less frequent, and not convenient at all. The ordinary mainstream middle class lifestyle in places like Markham and Brampton involves travel by cars, end of story. Only poor people there take public transit. Ordinary middle class suburbanites won't take transit there even if it is offered.
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porticoman wrote:
Nov 26th, 2018 10:32 am
on the other thread "rat race", I'm trying to figure out (seriously) how someone such as yourself & family situation, with the net assets that you have, sees or could relate to the OP?

would you say that you are poor, working class, middle class, upper middle class, one above that?

Given your personal situation & from where you started to where you are today - what do you say is the "household income to live modestly in the GTA" is or should be?
Most would consider me upper middle class based on the money I earn and the assets I have. But, Just because I have built up a bit of networth doesn't mean I can't relate. I have grown up in a modest household and continue to live that way.

If I don't count mortgage and daycare costs, this is what I spend.

Monthly Avg
Car - Gas $100
Car - Insurance $150
Hydro/Water/Gas - $250
Maint Fee - $300
House Insurance - $25
Prop Tax - $350
Internet - $35
Cell phone - $135
Transit - $250
---
Roughly $1600 fixed stuff

Grocery - $500
Eat out - $300
Misc Stuff - $200
----
Roughly $2600 without mortgage and daycare. This requires around $40k salary.

to me, someone living a "modest" lifestyle in GTA would probably be around $100k household ($6500 per month after tax) assuming rent/mortgage around $2k and daycare around $1k.

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