Home & Garden

Gutting a 1954 Sidesplit - Full gut job + 500 sq ft Addition

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[OP]
Deal Addict
Oct 14, 2004
1272 posts
290 upvotes
Toronto
I thought it would be fun to share some of my knowledge thus far:

Garbage: we ended up using Expert Waste Services for bins and has worked out really well. They charge a flat rate for delivery, then $75/ton. It works out to roughly $450/bin for a 40 yd. I did have one that was $625 (the very first one), but all the rest have been in the $350-500 range. We have used 5 x 40yd bins thus far, and 3 x 14yd concrete bins.

Windows: If you want to cut down on the costs of windows and are comfortable installing them yourself - ask for a supply only contract. This is what we did as the window company typically adds ~80% for install. Thus, if you have an $18k window order, 10k is for the actual window, and 8k is for the install.

Truck: I bought a truck for this reno - it was a decision well worth it. I will sell it when the reno is done for roughly what I paid (give or take $1000).

Lowes: I signed up for a business account at Lowes. You save 5% everyday, but they also have events (roughly once a month) where it is 10 or even 15% off. It adds up quickly! I also find HD is quite a bit more expensive on just about everything.

Bobcats: Don't be afraid to rent the bigger equipment at HD. The bobcat was very useful when pulling out the old wheelchair ramp. It was able to lift 3ft sections of concrete at a time into the concrete bin.

Rentals: Think about what tools you would need to rent a lot. I ended up buying a concrete saw on Kijiji and will probably sell it for roughly what I bought it for. I use it roughly once a week vs. the $100 rental charge each time. I also bought a conga hammer...well worth the investment.
[OP]
Deal Addict
Oct 14, 2004
1272 posts
290 upvotes
Toronto
Merry Christmas everyone!

It's been almost a month since the last update - there has been little progress, but at the same time, there has been major progress.

We left off last time with a wall that had shifted. I spoke with a few of my subcontractors (foundation company, architect, HVAC) and it appears that this wall is merely a retaining wall. One thing led to another, and a month later, Mrs. JTV and I find ourselves with plans submitted to the city to create a new crawlspace under the old kitchen. This new crawlspace will house a new mechanical room for the furnace, water heater, and HRV. While it won't cost a whole lot and will free up about 100sq ft in the basement; it will take a while to get the permit thus holding up everything. Hopefully we will have the permit by mid-Jan to get the footings in and the block wall in place.

The roof was supposed to go on at the end of November. Unfortunately this did not happen. We found out that all of the metal sheets were accidentally cut short at the factory - thus had to be cut again. The profile of roof was scheduled to be put back into production on Dec 20th, so we hope to see the metal roof showing up mid-Jan to be installed. In the meantime, the roof is blueskin'd, and the roofing company stopped by to install the skylights.

After several attempts to cut trenches in the concrete slab, we contracted a company to come in and cut the slab with their large diesel saw. It was a bit of a trip getting the saw inside, but it was a good job they used this saw. It turns out the slab was 6-7 inches thick in places and that is not something that I could cut myself; especially with the mesh embedded in the concrete.

My plumber has started to trench the basement in preparation for the new drains that will need to be installed. Things are progressing and we plan to work next week to make progress while we have some forward momentum.

Interior framing should start tomorrow (yes, I have permission to do some work on Christmas Day). This is just one thing that is required before we move back in!

Other than that, we have picked out the fan in our living room - it is a Big Ass Fan which will be 8ft wide. Mrs. JTV picked the fan so we will go and see it on the 28th to confirm that that is what we want.

Have a great Christmas everybody!
[OP]
Deal Addict
Oct 14, 2004
1272 posts
290 upvotes
Toronto
The Temp Patio Door and Skylights:
Image
Image

Cutting the Concrete Slab:
Image
Image
Image

Mocking up the fan (Note: on 10ft ladder, but will be installed 5ft higher; 8ft long 2x4's):
Image

The indoor lumber yard:
Image

The Basement:
Image
Image
[OP]
Deal Addict
Oct 14, 2004
1272 posts
290 upvotes
Toronto
Hi everyone, the last few weeks have busy - just before Christmas, we decided to excavate under the old kitchen (which was un-excavated) to create a new furnace room. Total cost of this change is about $4.5k, but well worth it as it gives us another 100 sq ft in the basement.

Overall, expenditures to date are about 200k and as you can see, we are far from done. I expect the overall cost to come in around 400-425k. We are also doing a lot of the work ourselves - interior framing, installing windows, all demo, plumbing (well, I get the family rate). As you can see, reno's are not cheap.

Here is the demo plan:
Image

Here is the plan for the final plan for that area:
Image
[OP]
Deal Addict
Oct 14, 2004
1272 posts
290 upvotes
Toronto
Progress on the reno has been trucking along!

We got our permit revision to dig the furnace room in the basement. It took 4 days to dig last weekend but will add a significant amount of space to the basement - special thanks to my parents, my brother and Sam for helping us get that dug! It is 9ft wide, by 7 feet long by 6ft deep. We also have most of the HVAC channels dug so the HVAC contractor can do his runs under the slab on grade. This will be a big step in the right direction as we will be then very close to pouring the slab which will make it one big chunk of concrete.

Mr. Bobcat is going to take away all of the dirt which was dug out of the hole. He comes with a bobcat and loads it all into his dump truck. He will also bring the biggest load of gravel that he can carry to ensure that we have enough to fill in a lot of the holes we just dug.

New drains have been added to the basement - only a small bit of work there remains before we can start filling it in again. This will replace the old clay pipe all the way to the outside of the house.

Interior framing upstairs is about 75% complete. This means that we have the bedroom floorplan all figured out...and the rough-ins for plumbing, electrical and HVAC can begin.

Mrs. JTV is beginning to ask when we will be into the house - truth is, I don't know. I would guess it will be May or June at this rate. Going into this we knew that things would take longer than expected, so we were prepared. That said, we are slowly getting to the point where we want to be back in our home and not have to go hunting for every little thing in storage.
[OP]
Deal Addict
Oct 14, 2004
1272 posts
290 upvotes
Toronto
New drains in basement:
Image

Digging the furnace room:
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

No wonder the heating didn't work well before:
Image

Interior Framing:
Image
Deal Addict
Jul 29, 2006
3591 posts
477 upvotes
That picture above referencing why the heating didn't work well...What am I not seeing?
Banned
Jun 16, 2009
19 posts
Toronto
If you look closely, and see that little metal thing embedded in that piece of concrete? That is the duct...it is supposed to be 4 inches round...not crushed by the weight of the concrete when it was poured. Thus, it never really worked...crazy! 60yrs and it never really worked.
Deal Addict
Jul 19, 2004
1073 posts
38 upvotes
Ajax
What a great thread, it has been interesting to follow the journey of a major renovation in real time.

At this point, you are over the original timeline and budget with a final projection of $450K and a year later.
Do you feel that knocking the original house down and rebuilding an all new house would have been cheaper, faster and less labour intensive than the current renovation?

This is not a criticism, just an interested party wondering.
Oh boy, Buffalo testicles!
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Oct 6, 2010
9268 posts
3335 upvotes
Toronto
Awesome, love this thread.
Disclaimer: Of course, that's just from my experience and my opinion so have a tissue, it's on me if it bothers you that much.
[OP]
Deal Addict
Oct 14, 2004
1272 posts
290 upvotes
Toronto
SLOGAN wrote:
Jan 19th, 2017 10:45 am
What a great thread, it has been interesting to follow the journey of a major renovation in real time.
Thanks for the feedback. There hasn't been as much discussion in this thread as some of the others, but it is neat to look back at how long each stage took, etc.
SLOGAN wrote:
Jan 19th, 2017 10:45 am
At this point, you are over the original timeline and budget with a final projection of $450K and a year later.
Do you feel that knocking the original house down and rebuilding an all new house would have been cheaper, faster and less labour intensive than the current renovation?
Let me break it down by time and budget.

Time:
Originally we knew it would take as long as it takes. I am a Project Manager by trade and knew that there were just far too many variables to accurately put together a timeline. The closer we get to the end - the more accurate any estimates will be.

That said, I was originally hoping for a happy-path timeline:
Aug - Demo
Sep - Foundation
Oct - Framing/Plumbing/Electrical/HVAC
Nov - Insulation
Dec - Drywall
Jan/Feb - Finishing/Kitchen.

We knew this was very aggressive. It also assumed I would be there full time and that contractors would roughly stick to their estimates. Just 7 weeks after I started the reno, I was asked to go back to work for a past client and they made it worth my while. In order to maintain the relationship, I reluctantly agreed to go back 3 days per week - this meant going from 7 days a week to 4 days a week at the site. I would also argue that the most productive days of the week were lost - it is easier to get ahold of contractors and push them during the week.

As you can see - things have been much slower than planned. A couple of items really put a dent in the timeline thus far:
1) Framing Contractors - The framers originally quoted 2 weeks, but ended up taking 5 weeks. It can be attributed to a number of reasons: their previous job running over by a week (so started one week late), removal of the old roof took 6 days instead of 2 days, they had to wait for a crane for 2 days, lost time due to weather, had to rebuild the highwall which the architect/engineer missed. Took a day to find all of the scaffolding required. In general, I found them to be very reactive...they show up "Oh, we need a crane today...let's call him" rather than planning it out that they will need a crane in 2 days.
2) Changes - at the last minute (and due to a bit of water damage as a result of having the roof off for so long) we decided to increase the ceiling height in the bedrooms. As a result, we ended up taking down all of the interior walls in the bedroom area - we had always planned to reuse the walls which added a couple of weeks for demo/reframing/new subfloor, etc. We also decided to do the new furnace room which has added about a month...but we found other things to do in the meantime.
3) The Slab on Grade - I honestly thought that we could just get out the quick cut saw, cut the concrete slab, and be away to the races digging in the gravel for HVAC. Well, it became much much more involved as some of the concrete was 7 inches thick. We had to get a concrete cutting company in, then haul the 100lb chunks out to a bin. Then there was the issue of the weather which was freezing at the point we cut everything.
4) Windows - 5 largest windows in the addition, one afternoon. The remaining 8 in the old structure, one week. The window openings needed to be modified, and they are probably not 100% to SAWDAC standards (for sure they are not!), but they needed to be done.

Would it have been faster to build new - yes. Demo would have been done in a couple of days...but at the same time, it would have created so much more waste, there are issues with tearing down a mortgaged property, and we would never have been able to finish it as nicely.



Budget:
Originally, we guestimated about 300-350k for the reno portion. We are now coming in around 450k all-in. That last number includes 25k in furniture (my bigscreen :)), 3k in new tools, 13k rent for the year, 17k for appliances, and 34k for solar panels. So, we are roughly on budget at this point, but a lot of the contingency has been used. Here is what the budget looks like at this point:

Windows/Doors: 25.5k
Kitchen Cabinets/Counter: 42.6k
Plumbing/Fixtures: 10k
HVAC: 23k
Framing: 59.5k
Metal Roof/Blueskin: 24.5k
Gutters/Eves/Fascia: 5k
Bins/Demolition: 5k
Landscaping: 3k (low)
Hardwood: 10k (low)
Subfloor: 3k
Architect/Engineer: 7.5k
Electrical/Fixtures: 10k
Big Ass Fan: 5k
Hardie Materials: 15k
New Stairs: 8k (high?)
Drywall/Paint/Insulation: 30k
Foundation/Slab: 28k
Permits: 2k
Trim: 5k
Basement: 15k
Fencing: 1k
Tile: 3k
Shower Glass: 2k
Front Porch: 6k (high)
Fireplace: 9k
Skylights: 1.5k
Gas Line: 3k
Interior Doors: 3k (high)
Rent: 13.2k
Appliances: 17.6k
Furniture: 20k
Extra Insurance: 1k
Security Camera: 1k
Blinds: 3k
Tools: 2k
Solar Panels: 34.2k

Yes it is an expensive reno, but as you can see, we have a number of things in this which would not be included in the 200/sq ft for a new build. Certainly we have chosen high-end materials, thus it would probably have been 800k-1M if a builder built a similar house for us. We are also doing a TON of the work ourselves.

Hopefully this answers your question - I know it is very difficult to get real numbers until you have a set of plans and a VERY good idea of what will go into the build. I say everyday that we should have just torn the thing down, but at the end, I think we will come out ahead by quite a large margin. We are also setting things up for another addition in 5-10 years which will add 2 more bedrooms and a new double car garage, so a lot of the rough-ins will already be in place etc.
Deal Addict
Jul 29, 2006
3591 posts
477 upvotes
Too bad Tesla hasn't introduced their roof tiles/solar panels yet, you'd be able to combine 2 in 1.
[OP]
Deal Addict
Oct 14, 2004
1272 posts
290 upvotes
Toronto
nx6288 wrote:
Jan 19th, 2017 10:31 pm
Too bad Tesla hasn't introduced their roof tiles/solar panels yet, you'd be able to combine 2 in 1.
We are going through Microfit, so it shouldn't be so bad. I think the Tesla roof looks cool - but it will take a while to get your hands on some. I also think there will be a lot of teething pains whereas the solar panels today are proven technology.
[OP]
Deal Addict
Oct 14, 2004
1272 posts
290 upvotes
Toronto
I should also add to my post above that work inevitably slows down in winter. In summer, it was easy to put in 12hr days. In the winter, with it getting dark by 5pm, and it being cold...it is easy to put in 5-8 hours before calling it a day. There was one weekend where I didn't even work an hour because it was -15. Framing in that weather was just too cold!
Deal Addict
Jul 19, 2004
1073 posts
38 upvotes
Ajax
James_TheVirus wrote:
Jan 19th, 2017 8:35 pm
Thanks for the feedback. There hasn't been as much discussion in this thread as some of the others, but it is neat to look back at how long each stage took, etc.



Let me break it down by time and budget.

Time:
Originally we knew it would take as long as it takes. I am a Project Manager by trade and knew that there were just far too many variables to accurately put together a timeline. The closer we get to the end - the more accurate any estimates will be.

That said, I was originally hoping for a happy-path timeline:
Aug - Demo
Sep - Foundation
Oct - Framing/Plumbing/Electrical/HVAC
Nov - Insulation
Dec - Drywall
Jan/Feb - Finishing/Kitchen.

We knew this was very aggressive. It also assumed I would be there full time and that contractors would roughly stick to their estimates. Just 7 weeks after I started the reno, I was asked to go back to work for a past client and they made it worth my while. In order to maintain the relationship, I reluctantly agreed to go back 3 days per week - this meant going from 7 days a week to 4 days a week at the site. I would also argue that the most productive days of the week were lost - it is easier to get ahold of contractors and push them during the week.

As you can see - things have been much slower than planned. A couple of items really put a dent in the timeline thus far:
1) Framing Contractors - The framers originally quoted 2 weeks, but ended up taking 5 weeks. It can be attributed to a number of reasons: their previous job running over by a week (so started one week late), removal of the old roof took 6 days instead of 2 days, they had to wait for a crane for 2 days, lost time due to weather, had to rebuild the highwall which the architect/engineer missed. Took a day to find all of the scaffolding required. In general, I found them to be very reactive...they show up "Oh, we need a crane today...let's call him" rather than planning it out that they will need a crane in 2 days.
2) Changes - at the last minute (and due to a bit of water damage as a result of having the roof off for so long) we decided to increase the ceiling height in the bedrooms. As a result, we ended up taking down all of the interior walls in the bedroom area - we had always planned to reuse the walls which added a couple of weeks for demo/reframing/new subfloor, etc. We also decided to do the new furnace room which has added about a month...but we found other things to do in the meantime.
3) The Slab on Grade - I honestly thought that we could just get out the quick cut saw, cut the concrete slab, and be away to the races digging in the gravel for HVAC. Well, it became much much more involved as some of the concrete was 7 inches thick. We had to get a concrete cutting company in, then haul the 100lb chunks out to a bin. Then there was the issue of the weather which was freezing at the point we cut everything.
4) Windows - 5 largest windows in the addition, one afternoon. The remaining 8 in the old structure, one week. The window openings needed to be modified, and they are probably not 100% to SAWDAC standards (for sure they are not!), but they needed to be done.

Would it have been faster to build new - yes. Demo would have been done in a couple of days...but at the same time, it would have created so much more waste, there are issues with tearing down a mortgaged property, and we would never have been able to finish it as nicely.



Budget:
Originally, we guestimated about 300-350k for the reno portion. We are now coming in around 450k all-in. That last number includes 25k in furniture (my bigscreen :)), 3k in new tools, 13k rent for the year, 17k for appliances, and 34k for solar panels. So, we are roughly on budget at this point, but a lot of the contingency has been used. Here is what the budget looks like at this point:

Windows/Doors: 25.5k
Kitchen Cabinets/Counter: 42.6k
Plumbing/Fixtures: 10k
HVAC: 23k
Framing: 59.5k
Metal Roof/Blueskin: 24.5k
Gutters/Eves/Fascia: 5k
Bins/Demolition: 5k
Landscaping: 3k (low)
Hardwood: 10k (low)
Subfloor: 3k
Architect/Engineer: 7.5k
Electrical/Fixtures: 10k
Big Ass Fan: 5k
Hardie Materials: 15k
New Stairs: 8k (high?)
Drywall/Paint/Insulation: 30k
Foundation/Slab: 28k
Permits: 2k
Trim: 5k
Basement: 15k
Fencing: 1k
Tile: 3k
Shower Glass: 2k
Front Porch: 6k (high)
Fireplace: 9k
Skylights: 1.5k
Gas Line: 3k
Interior Doors: 3k (high)
Rent: 13.2k
Appliances: 17.6k
Furniture: 20k
Extra Insurance: 1k
Security Camera: 1k
Blinds: 3k
Tools: 2k
Solar Panels: 34.2k

Yes it is an expensive reno, but as you can see, we have a number of things in this which would not be included in the 200/sq ft for a new build. Certainly we have chosen high-end materials, thus it would probably have been 800k-1M if a builder built a similar house for us. We are also doing a TON of the work ourselves.

Hopefully this answers your question - I know it is very difficult to get real numbers until you have a set of plans and a VERY good idea of what will go into the build. I say everyday that we should have just torn the thing down, but at the end, I think we will come out ahead by quite a large margin. We are also setting things up for another addition in 5-10 years which will add 2 more bedrooms and a new double car garage, so a lot of the rough-ins will already be in place etc.
Thanks for sharing this information.
I love renovations and the current onslaught of TV shows. When you see large scale renovations on TV, you are obviously getting a watered-down, dramatized version which sells the program, allure of the hosts and the end results in 30 minutes.

Keep up the good work!
Oh boy, Buffalo testicles!

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