Hamas murders Israeli businessman

[d_jedi]

Hamas kills Israeli captive


JERUSALEM (AP) — Hamas militants claimed responsibility today for the kidnapping and killing of Sasson Nuriel, a 51-year-old Jerusalem businessman who was found dead Monday.

The militants said in a statement that they had kidnapped Nuriel on Wednesday with the intention of trading him for Palestinian prisoners held in Israeli jails. However, after Israel began a series of arrest raids against West Bank militants, they decided to kill him, the statement said.

Nuriel was found dead Monday near the West Bank town of Ramallah and police said the attack appeared to be a terror attack.

Public Security Minister Gideon Ezra said Monday that security forces had in recent days arrested several Hamas members near Ramallah on suspicion the group had kidnapped the businessman.

Police said a Hamas activist arrested Sunday led the forces to Nuriel's body in an industrial zone in the West Bank town of Beitunia near Ramallah.

In its statement Tuesday, Hamas' military wing said it had kidnapped Nuriel, whom it identified as an agent of Israel's Shin Bet security service, in a plan to trade him for Palestinian prisoners.

After the arrest raids, the militants decided to kill him, the statement said.

Now, someone explain how this is "legitimate resistance" by "freedom fighters", and not terrorism? Hmm? Anyone?

[poedua]

Now, someone explain how this is "legitimate resistance" by "freedom fighters", and not terrorism? Hmm? Anyone?

Taking hostages is an act of terrorism according to the UN Hostage Convention ( 1979 )...

The Convention provides that

' any person who seizes or detains and threatens to kill, to injure, or to continue to detain another person in order to compel a third party, namely, a State, an international intergovernmental organization, a natural or juridical person, or a group of persons, to do or abstain from doing any act as an explicit or implicit condition for the release of the hostage commits the offence of taking of hostage within the meaning of this Convention;'

By that definition, it seems Hamas committed a terrorist act by holding that businessman as a hostage in hopes of using him in exchange for Palestinian prisoners.

[insanity]

You want to talk about terrorism, well take a look at this article. Both sides have cold blooded killers - don't try and make one out to be worse than the other. The Palestinans are living under a state of occupation - do you understand what the word means. It's nice of you to post articles and then just give the label of terrorist to the Palestinians.

From: B'TSELEM - The Israeli Information Center for Human Rights
http://www.btselem.org/english/Press...s/20050627.asp
According to B'Tselem's figures, since the beginning of the Intifada (in late September 2000) until 26 June 2005, Israeli security forces have killed at least 1,722 Palestinians not taking part in the hostilities, among them 563 minors. In that period of time, the Military Police investigated only 108 cases involving Palestinians killed or injured by soldiers in the Occupied Territories . An indictment was issued in only 19 of these cases. In only two cases were soldiers convicted of causing the death of a Palestinian.

The Judge Advocate General's policy not to open Military Police investigations into the killing of civilians sends IDF commanders and soldiers the message that it is unlikely they will be held accountable for harming civilians. This message has led to a trigger-happy attitude, and the extensive harm to Palestinian civilians.

[poedua]

You want to talk about terrorism, well take a look at this article. Both sides have cold blooded killers - don't try and make one out to be worse than the other. The Palestinans are living under a state of occupation - do you understand what the word means. It's nice of you to post articles and then just give the label of terrorist to the Palestinians.

From: B'TSELEM - The Israeli Information Center for Human Rights
http://www.btselem.org/english/Press...s/20050627.asp
According to B'Tselem's figures, since the beginning of the Intifada (in late September 2000) until 26 June 2005, Israeli security forces have killed at least 1,722 Palestinians not taking part in the hostilities, among them 563 minors. In that period of time, the Military Police investigated only 108 cases involving Palestinians killed or injured by soldiers in the Occupied Territories . An indictment was issued in only 19 of these cases. In only two cases were soldiers convicted of causing the death of a Palestinian.

The Judge Advocate General's policy not to open Military Police investigations into the killing of civilians sends IDF commanders and soldiers the message that it is unlikely they will be held accountable for harming civilians. This message has led to a trigger-happy attitude, and the extensive harm to Palestinian civilians.

You raise a good point.

If Israel's security forces have been indulging in brutality, and allowing Air Force attacks on Palestinian civilians population centres - killing innocent civilians - they need to be held accountable by the international community.
If a Jewish Human Rights organization like B’Tselem suggests that the Israel army investigations of civilian killings are a ' joke '- that speaks for itself.

The disturbing thing is the public reactions by Bush's officials to reported Israeli violations of international humanitarian law. They seem to continue to emphasize Israel's right of self-defense without clear reference to international humanitarian law standards, and the U.S. has taken no public steps to pressure Israel to meet its obligations under those standards.

And, I think that is why the defintion of what is terrorism and what isn't becomes difficult. Can armed forces of internationally recognized soveriegn states like Israel be accused of ' terrorism ' when their jets attack Palestinian settlement and indiscriminatley kill civilians or is it better described as a ' crime against humanity ' by legitimate government forces ? A tough call. Earlier, I suggested a possible definition of terrorism as being the killing, disruption, or destruction of something of value for political purposes by someone, in a covert manner, other than a government or its agents acting in an overt manner i.e the IRA, al Qeda etc. Perhaps defintions of terrorism should include acts by governments and their forces as well.

[gilboman]

Isreal like the US are well funded terrorists. Palestine is just poor terrorists.

but they are all terrorists anyways.

[i6s1]

the Military Police investigated only 108 cases involving Palestinians killed or injured by soldiers in the Occupied Territories . An indictment was issued in only 19 of these cases. In only two cases were soldiers convicted of causing the death of a Palestinian.

OK, now provide figures for how many investigations the PA had into the murder of innocent Jews, how many terrorists were charged, how many were convicted, and how long thier sentences are.

Isrealis have the moral high ground by any measure. When the Palestinians can fight as ethically as the Isrealis, then I'll ask the Isrealis to raise the bar again. Until then, the onus is on the Palestinians to follow the rules of war - even just a little.

[asim99]

OK, now provide figures for how many investigations the PA had into the murder of innocent Jews, how many terrorists were charged, how many were convicted, and how long thier sentences are.

Isrealis have the moral high ground by any measure. When the Palestinians can fight as ethically as the Isrealis, then I'll ask the Isrealis to raise the bar again. Until then, the onus is on the Palestinians to follow the rules of war - even just a little.

really? i'll see who has the higher moral ground, when palestinian authority has same kind of arsenal and equipment that the occuprying israeli army has...give them the planes and tanks and we'll see

[Txiasaeia]

really? i'll see who has the higher moral ground, when palestinian authority has same kind of arsenal and equipment that the occuprying israeli army has...give them the planes and tanks and we'll see

Oh, that's rich. Israel doesn't use children as suicide bombers, bombers which go after both military and civilian targets. Israel has at least attempted to participate in the peace process (and have done so since 48, when the state was established); the goal of militant Palestinians is not coexistence, but the destruction of Israel as a state. There's absolutely no way that the Palestinians hold the higher moral ground in this terrible conflict, if only for these two simple facts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_s...inian_conflict

[asim99]

Oh, that's rich. Israel doesn't use children as suicide bombers, bombers which go after both military and civilian targets. Israel has at least attempted to participate in the peace process (and have done so since 48, when the state was established); the goal of militant Palestinians is not coexistence, but the destruction of Israel as a state. There's absolutely no way that the Palestinians hold the higher moral ground in this terrible conflict, if only for these two simple facts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_s...inian_conflict

how long have they been using suicide bombers? educate me
before that, it was simply stone-throwing that everyone made fun of

[i6s1]

really? i'll see who has the higher moral ground, when palestinian authority has same kind of arsenal and equipment that the occuprying israeli army has...give them the planes and tanks and we'll see

So are you admiting that Isreal currently has the moral high ground? Or are you using the material disadvantage of the Palestinians as an excuse for thier immoral behaivior? Can they murder businessmen because they don't have tanks?

[asim99]

So are you admiting that Isreal currently has the moral high ground? Or are you using the material disadvantage of the Palestinians as an excuse for thier immoral behaivior? Can they murder businessmen because they don't have tanks?

of course, they DO NOT have any moral surperiority

they would have had moral superiority when they treated palestinian families who are evicted from their homes with same respect as they did when israeli settlers were evicted

the businessman was identified "as an agent of Israel's Shin Bet security service"

[Mr._Hankey]

how long have they been using suicide bombers? educate me
before that, it was simply stone throwing that everyone made fun of

Basically from 1993 when Rabin decided to share Israel's arsenal of guns with PLO terrorists foolishly hoping to earn their trust. It's definitely Israel's fault that palestinian terrorism still exists. If they had the balls they would've slaughtered all the Hamas and Fatah human waste back in the eighties and made Jordan and Egypt sign a refugee agreement to accept the former residents of their occupation in Israel.

the businessman was identified "as an agent of Israel's Shin Bet security service"

Cheap PLO propaganda.

[danfromwaterloo]

Currently, the appearance of the breakup of the current peace process can be linked almost definitely to the Palestinian government.

We can debate back and forth who has the most blood on their hands, but in the end, both sides do.

The Israelis have made the attempt to withdraw from occupied territory - and for their efforts, they end up getting mortared and kidnapped. This is because the PLO has done little or nothing to self-police. If Hamas and Islamic Jihad had towed the line, and kept up with the peace process, it appears evident that it would have worked.

On their first opportunity to strike from their newly given land, they have taken it. Frankly, I've traditionally been completely neutral on the entire issue, blaming both sides equally. But the two terrorist groups in Palestine are making it increasingly difficult to show that they are not more to blame.

Show me how Hamas and Islamic Jihad have attempted to keep the peace recently? Show me how they want peace? What actions have they taken? Exactly. They're precipitating this whole thing.

[i6s1]

the businessman was identified "as an agent of Israel's Shin Bet security service"

... identified by Hamas

[asim99]

... identified by Hamas

so?
if the terrorist state of israel can 'identify' people, why can't a terrorist group do the same