Personal Finance

Hard credit inquiry without consent

  • Last Updated:
  • Apr 17th, 2018 11:37 pm
[OP]
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Dec 27, 2013
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Hard credit inquiry without consent

As is rather well known, companies are not supposed to do hard credit checks without explicit consent of consumers.

For example, see Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act at http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts ... lText.html
Here is a story about a man who successfully sued Bell for performing unauthorized credit check: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scot ... -1.2489793
Legal docs can be found here: http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/fct/doc/201 ... c1103.html

I’ve just checked my Equifax report via Borrowell, and there is an entry there from TDCT (=TD Canada Trust) that I do not recognize (February 2018). It is under "Local Inquires" that only include “hard inquiries”.
I will order a report directly from Equifax just to make sure that Borrowell did not screw up something, and will then try to figure out why this inquiry was made (I suppose there is always a non-zero chance that I am forgetting something that happened a few months ago.. especially with my credit card churning activities :) ).

The last time I applied for a credit card from TD (Aeroplan Visa Infinite) was in May 2017. Obviously, I gave my consent to pull my credit info then (and a hard inquiry in May 2017 is listed on my report). I then switched this card to TD First Class in November 2017, and there wasn’t supposed to be any hard pulls because it was a product switch (and there are no pulls from TD around that time).

I take my credit score rather seriously, but this is not my main concern here. I am more concerned about somebody pulling my file without my authorization. Could it be a "friend" who works at a TD bank, who just wanted to know more about my finances or something? At the moment, it seems to be the most likely explanation…

If anybody has anything of value to say, please do!

Edit: I am an idiot! :) I was buying a vacation package using my TDFC MC, and the total was more than my credit limit at that time.. so I called them and requested a credit limit increase.. and, of course, it resulted in a hard pull!.. and I totally forgot about it (was just thinking about new credit card applications).. So, everything is good.. and they had my consent for that pull!
Last edited by mbmbkop on Apr 12th, 2018 5:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
16 replies
Member
May 16, 2017
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Borrowell has had issues in the past with incorrectly reporting hard/soft pulls and account status (open/closed), so, yeh, I'd wait to confirm it directly from Equifax.

A "friend" tracked-down for doing a hardpull in a deliberate violation of the privacy act just to snoop could easily result in the friend's job termination.
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Nov 13, 2013
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Ottawa
Is this really worth stressing about? In the end who really cares. Unless you are churning 10 cards a year or something a hard credit pull won't mean anything.
[OP]
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fogetmylogin wrote:
Apr 13th, 2018 2:09 am
Is this really worth stressing about? In the end who really cares. Unless you are churning 10 cards a year or something a hard credit pull won't mean anything.
As I said, I do not really care that much about the score dropping even though it is annoying. I am more concerned about a privacy breach... same as I would be concerned if somehow I found out that somebody other than a doctor was accessing my medical records.. or a "friend" was listening to my phone conversations.. or facebook was collecting my personal information.. or google home was listening to everything that was said inside my house, etc.

So, my concern now is why would be a hard pull with what seems like absolutely no reason at the moment from a TD bank. I just want to find out what triggered it. But I am hoping that @robsaw is right, and this is just a glitch in the Borrowell system.
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Nov 25, 2014
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You mention that it was a "hard pull" in almost every paragraph, yet say you're only concerned about privacy. What difference does it make then? You have an existing relationship with TD, which means they already have the right to soft pull at their discretion, and access the same information. Let's be honest, this is only about your credit score.
You need someone with an umbrella not a fork
[OP]
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superfresh89 wrote:
Apr 13th, 2018 3:47 am
Maybe an MBNA card?
Nope. MBNA pulls are listed as "MBNA". Yes, have a few of those as well, and all of them are legit.
nmclean wrote:
Apr 13th, 2018 8:13 am
You mention that it was a "hard pull" in almost every paragraph, yet say you're only concerned about privacy. What difference does it make then? You have an existing relationship with TD, which means they already have the right to soft pull at their discretion, and access the same information. Let's be honest, this is only about your credit score.
I always assumed that soft pulls do not provide as much information as hard pulls, i.e., soft pull can verify my address or my identity or something like that.. while a hard pull gets everything that Equifax has on me. Is it not the case??? If not, then I'll really start looking at all soft pulls much closer.

And no, my credit score is not my main concern (feel free not to believe this statement) -- I am concerned about somebody doing something with my information without my permission.
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Nov 25, 2014
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mbmbkop wrote:
Apr 13th, 2018 9:58 am
Nope. MBNA pulls are listed as "MBNA". Yes, have a few of those as well, and all of them are legit.



I always assumed that soft pulls do not provide as much information as hard pulls, i.e., soft pull can verify my address or my identity or something like that.. while a hard pull gets everything that Equifax has on me. Is it not the case??? If not, then I'll really start looking at all soft pulls much closer.

And no, my credit score is not my main concern (feel free not to believe this statement) -- I am concerned about somebody doing something with my information without my permission.
Banks do soft pulls specifically for your credit information, because this is what they're basing pre-approvals on. The credit bureaus do have separate services for identity verification without pulling credit, where nothing is shared with the business except a pass/fail basically. But with a soft pull, the credit information is included. If you get your full credit report from Equifax, you will see several soft pulls from Borrowell, because that's how they're showing you your info in the first place. You may also see some older ones from TD.
You need someone with an umbrella not a fork
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Nov 8, 2017
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I think it's funny buddy in the article won a 21k judgement.
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User455957 wrote:
Apr 13th, 2018 12:36 pm
I think it's funny buddy in the article won a 21k judgement.
Didn't read, but was it small claims or full fledged lawsuit? I guess it doesn't matter since expenses are covered by the losing party and this is an anchor people can use to win now.
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mbmbkop wrote:
Apr 13th, 2018 9:58 am
Nope. MBNA pulls are listed as "MBNA". Yes, have a few of those as well, and all of them are legit.



I always assumed that soft pulls do not provide as much information as hard pulls, i.e., soft pull can verify my address or my identity or something like that.. while a hard pull gets everything that Equifax has on me. Is it not the case??? If not, then I'll really start looking at all soft pulls much closer.

And no, my credit score is not my main concern (feel free not to believe this statement) -- I am concerned about somebody doing something with my information without my permission.
You do a soft pull when you look up your credit report under Equifax/Transunion. You do soft pulls when you view your credit information through Borrowwell/CreditKarma/Mogo. Those views give you your full data (in most cases). Assuming a soft pull doesn't see everything you see in Equifax yourself would be a foolish assumption. IMHO.

C
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Nov 8, 2017
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Messerschmitt wrote:
Apr 13th, 2018 12:58 pm
Didn't read, but was it small claims or full fledged lawsuit? I guess it doesn't matter since expenses are covered by the losing party and this is an anchor people can use to win now.
Read yourself, and you'll have an informed opinion instead of just pissing into the wind
[OP]
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CNeufeld wrote:
Apr 13th, 2018 3:14 pm
You do a soft pull when you look up your credit report under Equifax/Transunion. You do soft pulls when you view your credit information through Borrowwell/CreditKarma/Mogo. Those views give you your full data (in most cases). Assuming a soft pull doesn't see everything you see in Equifax yourself would be a foolish assumption. IMHO.

C
I've never worked in an industry that did credit checks, so I do not have an informed opinion. If you have more information about all this please share it. Since I am unable to hard pull my credit info I still do not know if a hard pull provides more info than a soft one. If a soft pull gives you the same info as the hard one, why does one result in the credit score decrease and the other doesn't? If a company can get all the info about credit history with a soft pull, what is the reason to do hard pulls?.. or rather why wouldn't a credit card company ever agree to do a soft pull while issuing a new credit card if one "asks nicely"? This tells me that there is a difference between these two things.. if only it is just one extra field (score?) that gets reported with a hard pull.. and I suspect that a financial institution has to pay more to Equifax/Transunion for hard pulls...

Anyways, I guess I am learning that I should pay as much attention to soft pulls as I pay to hard ones. So, thank you for that.
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Lender's or credit grantors are typically the ones doing hard pulls, and they need permission from you to do so. This is (I think) the primary reason why these impact your credit score; because you're looking for more credit. So even if you don't end up getting credit, it means you were in a position to want credit, which means you're at a higher risk of being in credit difficulties.

Soft pulls are you checking your own credit somehow, or non-financial checks.

As far as information... There's many ways (AFAIK) that your credit information is sliced, diced, and served up for consumption. There's the raw data that you see in your file, but there's also numerous analytics that can be done to it, to try to boil things down to a "credit worthiness score". The analytics may depend more or less on past history, current levels of debt, etc. And a lender granting you a mortgage may use a different analytic than your cell phone company did when you got your snazzy new phone. There would also be different costs involved, depending on what package a lender has chosen.

So from a data safety perspective, they're approximately equally damaging, I would guess. From an impact to your credit score, a soft check has no impact, and a hard check has an impact.

C
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Dec 1, 2009
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HALIFAX
I am in the same situation. I went to TD to inquire about a new mortgage (just discussing a few options) and saw a hard-pull from Borrowell report. I called TD and they told me it was a mistake from the mortgage broker but they could not withdraw that hard pull.

Let me know if TD can withdraw the hard pull for you.

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