Help on cat diet... and cat weight gain?

[joeyjoejoe]

I have two cats. They were from the same litter and the best of friends. Kyuubi is a medium hair cat and Azrael a short hair. Kyuubi was the biggest cat in the litter (the extra hair made him look bigger, but also weighed the most)... Azrael was the runt. At 6 months Kyuubi was already at 13lbs while Azrael was just 7lbs.

Fast forward 4 years and they completely switched roles! Azrael grew to be the bigger cat! He has much more muscle, but also fat. He has always been the more athletic of the two and even with the extra weight, he still stronger, faster and can jump higher. Kyuubi doesn't have much muscle and is getting thin. I went on vacation a few weeks back and left my cats at my parents' place. The shedding drove my mom nuts, so she gave Kyuubi a hair cut. That's when it became very apparent how thin Kyuubi is getting. I should point out Kyuubi is not very athletic and never has been... clumsy really.

According to this chart:


Kyuubi is somewhere between Healthy and Thin. While Azrael looks exactly like the Overweight picture. Both are healthy and active, but I'd like to see them get back to Healthy weights.

Here's the problem... How do I get one cat to eat more, but simultaneously get the other one to eat less? Food is always left out and they are grazers. However, Azrael typically eats more frequently and more at one time. There's no possessive issues with sharing a food bowl, so the issue is not Azrael blocking Kyuubi from eating. Also there's always left over food, so Kyuubi's weight loss is a bit of a mystery. Even the vet is stumped.

I can limit the food and give Kyuubi extra, but where do I leave it that Azrael can't get to? Also, I'm not home for 10-15 hours at a time, so having food/water readily available is necessary.

[Manatus]

Is there a reason why they have to have access to food all day? You could feed them in separate rooms (so Azrael can't just go after the other bowl when he's done), and then take the food away after a set period of time. They should be able to adjust to this. Always have water available, but there's nothing wrong with having set mealtimes twice a day (or even once a day) and not having food accessible in the interim. We have a cat who had the same eating problem - if there's food around, she'll eat it, regardless of whether she needs it or not. We had to start separating her from the others and making sure that all excess food was taken away, so there wasn't any more she could get to.

[Cheap Cat]

Has your vet done test to rule out disease? Diabetes, is common among cats due to their inappropriate diet and is one disease that causes weight loss.

I have the same problem with my cats. My female is thin and the male is fat (obese). The thin cat is diabetic so that explains part of it. In the last year, she has lost even more weight while the male got fatter. Except when her blood sugar was out of control, she has never been aggressive around food. She likes to eat a little and then walk away and come back and eat a little more. No matter how little I give her, she leaves food behind. The male is insatiable. He always wants to eat and is always waiting for her to walk away to eat her food or push her away to take it. He swallows his food (without chewing) while she eats slowly and delicately. I have been trying for years to get him to lose weight but nothing works. I literally have to stand there and watch them eat which is a problem with the thin cat. She used to get insulin injections after eating and blood tests before eating so she is very nervous if I am around while she eats. When she was on insulin, I had to make sure she ate enough before giving her injection or she could have gone into a coma and died. She still associates that with eating.

I have tried feeding them in separate rooms but it doesn't work. I lock one in one room to eat and the other is there looking for him/her. The female cat gets distracted by the male whether he is locked in or out of the room and won't eat. I've tried it both ways and it doesn't work. Sometimes, I think they are in cahoots.

Unlike your cats, my thin cat, who will be 15 this year, is like a kitten again running and playing. She never was fat but now that she is thinner, she seems to have more energy. It may also be a second lease on life as she was very ill last year and nearly died. The fat cat, who will be 10 this year, is acting more like an old cat, not as playful as he used to be. He's too fat.

Anyways, I too am interested in solutions to the fat cat, thin cat dilemma.

[niagarabeech]

All indoor cats should be on a low fat dry food when they reach 4 years old because they always gain weight from inactivity.
I use Costco Kirkland low fat food. Cat loves the taste!

Check it out -> http://forums.redflagdeals.com/what-...ostco-1024464/

[joeyjoejoe]

Is there a reason why they have to have access to food all day? You could feed them in separate rooms (so Azrael can't just go after the other bowl when he's done), and then take the food away after a set period of time. They should be able to adjust to this. Always have water available, but there's nothing wrong with having set mealtimes twice a day (or even once a day) and not having food accessible in the interim. We have a cat who had the same eating problem - if there's food around, she'll eat it, regardless of whether she needs it or not. We had to start separating her from the others and making sure that all excess food was taken away, so there wasn't any more she could get to.

I already mentioned this, but it's because I'm not home a lot that they get access to food most of the time. I give them wet food in the morning before leaving for work. They will graze on this all day while I'm at work. I come home and throw out what ever is left and give them some more. I toss that out around midnight and leave some dry food out all night. If I didn't leave out the midnight snack, I would get 4am wake up calls.

I can't leave them in separate rooms. They really are attached at the hip. They typically need to be within eye contact of each other. If they were isolated in separate rooms, they won't eat. They'll be too stressed that they are apart.

Right now, I'm monitoring them more when they eat now. When Azrael goes for seconds, I try to distract him with my laser pointer. Which works out well as he gets more exercise. Also I'm keeping some treats in my pocket... when Azrael isn't looking, I quickly give Kyuubi 1 or 2.

Cheap Cat - My cats are due for check ups in a few months. Their last check up, they both passed with flying colors, but I don't think they checked for diabetes. I'll bring it up on their next visit.

[redgrandam]

All indoor cats should be on a low fat dry food when they reach 4 years old because they always gain weight from inactivity.
I use Costco Kirkland low fat food. Cat loves the taste!

Check it out -> http://forums.redflagdeals.com/what-...ostco-1024464/

Correction. Most cat forums the 'experts' suggest ONLY wet food, not dry.

To OP. Get to the vet. We had a big and a small cat. The big one went from overweight (when we got him) to now a little less than the smaller one. Turns out the larger one has chronic renal failure (kidney disease). They are both around 12 now, however somewhat unexplained weight loss is a huge sign of CRA.

That being said there isn't a tonne you can do, other than try to slow progression. So it's something you want to know about sooner rather than later.

[Cheap Cat]

All indoor cats should be on a low fat dry food when they reach 4 years old because they always gain weight from inactivity.
I use Costco Kirkland low fat food. Cat loves the taste!

Check it out -> http://forums.redflagdeals.com/what-...ostco-1024464/

Wrong. Cats should never be fed dry food. It is species inappropriate. Cats are obligate carnivores, they get their energy from meat not carbohydrates. Dry food is too high in carbohydrates, even the ones that aren't full of corn like most dry cat food. The consumption of dry cat food has been linked to numerous health concerns including obesity, diabetes, liver disease and IBS. Ideally they should be on a raw diet although I realize that isn't going to work for most people or most cats. Otherwise, any canned food is better than dry food.

From first hand experience, I can attest to the role of dry food and diabetes. My cat developed diabetes and was on insulin when eating dry food. By getting her off dry, I was able to control her blood sugar and got her off insulin. Since I home test, I can see the direct result between the dry food and her high blood sugar. Even the lowest carb dry food EVO, was still to high for her. Save yourself and your cat, the trouble (and expense) and feed a proper diet from the beginning.

For info on cat nutrition, please read the info on this site: http://catinfo.org/
It was instrumental in helping me learn how to feed my cat.

[gilboman]

While a vocal group of people will say cats should never be fed dry food (lol), many cats do perfectly fine living long healthy lives on a dry food diet. If your cat has specific dietary concerns, then maybe you will need to switch to wet food or a vet diet.

This sort of attitude is also prevalent in the dry food community where some say feeding your cat iams, royal canin, science diet is murdering your cat and you need to switch to some premium holistic cat food right away. Again, many (I would say majority) of cats did fine before premium food diets were available. It's just there's a big segment of market/products that are supposedly premium and better for you. Much like the whole organic marketing BS for human foods. Any cat that is taken care of by a human will have a much longer and healthy life than a cat that is on its own and eating what their supposed "natural diet" would be.

Ignore all the people telling you that you must feed your cat wet food only, some premium food, or only certain brand of premium food, especially if your cat has been fine and does not have any health concerns that warrants a specific diet.

With that being said, i feed my cat Acana Grasslands dry food, because I do think the ingredients in it are probably better than what she's been fed for past 15 yrs of her life with no problems (science diet, royal canin) and shes older now so less carbs and more protein won't hurt, but I wouldn't tell anyone they need to feed their cat X food. Most if not all the mainstream brands would be fine(or would be sued too many times by now) unless your cat has some specific dietary requirements.

[penipitcher]

There is also a 10hr gap between breakfast and dinner for my two. If you do some preparation, there isn't a need to let them graze. I feed them a canned breakfast b4 I leave for work and they're fine for the rest of the day. I then feed them a raw dinner at the 10 hr mark. Because of the difference in total body weight, activity levels and metabolism, they both get different amounts of food that's pre-measured. I just defrost their dinner b4 I leave in the morning and when I come home, it's ready. They're fed in different corners of the room and they finish very quickly. They don't go after each other's food. If you really have a problem, you can feed them in separate rooms.

For a while I was feeding them a dry bedtime snack. However, my smaller cat looked pudgy despite the fact that it was a small amount of dry food. I eventually eliminated their dry food entirely and now, she's slimmed down to a healthy figure.

As for the dry/wet/raw food debate, all I can say is do your research, get the info from more than one source and ask questions.

Also, the 'evidence' that some ppl's pets survived and lived to a ripe old age on certain cheaper lower quality foods is similar to the 'smoking doesn't cause cancer' debate. I don't deny there's ppl living into their 90's who've smoked 2 packs a day since they were 12. However, that doesn't take away the risks of smoking and the possibility that the quality of life could be better if the person wasn't smoking. Sure you may be still alive, but you're probably on an oxygen tank. I'm not willing to take the risk.

[GoNaturalGiveaways]

I already mentioned this, but it's because I'm not home a lot that they get access to food most of the time. I give them wet food in the morning before leaving for work. They will graze on this all day while I'm at work. I come home and throw out what ever is left and give them some more. I toss that out around midnight and leave some dry food out all night. If I didn't leave out the midnight snack, I would get 4am wake up calls.

I can't leave them in separate rooms. They really are attached at the hip. They typically need to be within eye contact of each other. If they were isolated in separate rooms, they won't eat. They'll be too stressed that they are apart.

Right now, I'm monitoring them more when they eat now. When Azrael goes for seconds, I try to distract him with my laser pointer. Which works out well as he gets more exercise. Also I'm keeping some treats in my pocket... when Azrael isn't looking, I quickly give Kyuubi 1 or 2.

Cheap Cat - My cats are due for check ups in a few months. Their last check up, they both passed with flying colors, but I don't think they checked for diabetes. I'll bring it up on their next visit.

You say you feed your cats in the morning and then at night? This is enough for the day. You do not need to leave food out while you're not home and at night. Go with feeding them when you wake up and sometime in the evening and at night and they should be fine. If you stick with a high quality, grain free canned food they should start to lose weight.

All indoor cats should be on a low fat dry food when they reach 4 years old because they always gain weight from inactivity.
I use Costco Kirkland low fat food. Cat loves the taste!

Check it out -> http://forums.redflagdeals.com/what-...ostco-1024464/

No cat should ever be on hard food, especially not low fat! Cats require fat for energy and to survive. They are not humans and should not be treated like humans. If you want to keep your cat thin and healthy, feed them a canned, all natural, grain free diet. Dry food lacks moisture and is detrimental to their health!

[My2MnMs]

The RIGHT dry food is perfectly fine! But it is true that it is healthy for your cat to consume enough water in a day (about 250ml is ideal), which can be done quite easily by feeding a canned diet. But many high-quality dry foods are formulated to increase thirst in cats so that they drink enough to keep their urine diluted, thus preventing urinary infections and stones.

And yes, cats are carnivores, but what this means is that the majority of nutrients that are essential to cats come from meat (e.g. high levels of essential amino acids, as well as fatty acids), and that certain nutrients they require (e.g. the amino acid taurine) are only found in meat. However... It DOES NOT mean that they can't digest and won't benefit from the nutrients provided from the right plant sources. What is important is the nutrients. Ingredients are only vehicles for the nutrients, and many nutrients can be found in multiple sources - some more digestible than others. For example, protein from corn and wheat (called gluten on the labels) contain high levels of essential amino acids and have been proven to be as, or more digestible in cats than meat proteins. Not to say that these should be used as the only protein sources, because multiple sources of protein ensure a complete protein (with all amino acids). So they should be used in combination with other meat proteins. Also, it has been shown in studies that cats are more often allergic to beef, chicken, and fish, than they are to corn or wheat. But food allergies are not terribly common in cats anyway, contrary to what many people would have you believe.

Also, domestic cats are not wild cats, and their digestive tracts and enzymes are not the same. It is well-established that cats should obtain a significant amount of their energy from proteins as well as fats (less than protein though), but they also are very capable of synthesizing energy from carbohydrates. People argue that cats don't secrete amylase to digest starches, but they actually do - not in their saliva, but in their pancreas. Highly digestible (high quality and properly ground and cooked) starches and fibres provide sustainable energy and gastrointestinal health to cats. The right combination of soluble and insoluble fibres is especially important for the digestive tract, as they promote the growth of healthy intestinal bacteria and improve overall stool quality.
http://cp.vetlearn.com/Media/Publica...0_laflamme.pdf
http://www.articlesbase.com/pets-art...ts-190198.html


Anyway, I had a similar problem with my two cats. One is a grazer and always manages to self-regulate his weight, but the other eats like she'll never see food again - she'd be done in less than 2 minutes. At first we didn't know what to do about it, and my one cat starting getting fat. So I put her on Royal Canin Calorie Control, and kept feeding my other cat the same as before (Royal Canin Preventive at the time). She started to lose weight slowly - the first pound came off after about 3 months finally. Then because of her continual begging I tried RC Satiety Support, and she was better... but still ate so fast and begged quite a lot. But she lost the last 2 pounds in the next 5 months, and she is back to a healthy weight! Now she has lost weight, I have switched both my cats to RC Spayed/Neutered Appetite Control. She loves it and still begs when it comes close to mealtime, but because of the kibble shape, she is forced to slow down her eating, and due to the high fibre content that makes her belly feel fuller, she even leaves food in the bowl now after almost every meal (although it's not terribly long before she comes back a few times to finish it)! My other cat also loves it, is excited before every feeding, but still grazes as normal and has kept a super healthy weight and is super lean and muscular. I know they are getting the urinary health benefits as well, because this food is also formulated for it. Their coats are extremely soft, shiny, and thick, they hardly shed, and they have such great energy levels, they're so playful and affectionate.

[joeyjoejoe]

The RIGHT dry food is perfectly fine! But it is true that it is healthy for your cat to consume enough water in a day (about 250ml is ideal), which can be done quite easily by feeding a canned diet. But many high-quality dry foods are formulated to increase thirst in cats so that they drink enough to keep their urine diluted, thus preventing urinary infections and stones.

And yes, cats are carnivores, but what this means is that the majority of nutrients that are essential to cats come from meat (e.g. high levels of essential amino acids, as well as fatty acids), and that certain nutrients they require (e.g. the amino acid taurine) are only found in meat. However... It DOES NOT mean that they can't digest and won't benefit from the nutrients provided from the right plant sources. What is important is the nutrients. Ingredients are only vehicles for the nutrients, and many nutrients can be found in multiple sources - some more digestible than others. For example, protein from corn and wheat (called gluten on the labels) contain high levels of essential amino acids and have been proven to be as, or more digestible in cats than meat proteins. Not to say that these should be used as the only protein sources, because multiple sources of protein ensure a complete protein (with all amino acids). So they should be used in combination with other meat proteins. Also, it has been shown in studies that cats are more often allergic to beef, chicken, and fish, than they are to corn or wheat. But food allergies are not terribly common in cats anyway, contrary to what many people would have you believe.

Also, domestic cats are not wild cats, and their digestive tracts and enzymes are not the same. It is well-established that cats should obtain a significant amount of their energy from proteins as well as fats (less than protein though), but they also are very capable of synthesizing energy from carbohydrates. People argue that cats don't secrete amylase to digest starches, but they actually do - not in their saliva, but in their pancreas. Highly digestible (high quality and properly ground and cooked) starches and fibres provide sustainable energy and gastrointestinal health to cats. The right combination of soluble and insoluble fibres is especially important for the digestive tract, as they promote the growth of healthy intestinal bacteria and improve overall stool quality.
http://cp.vetlearn.com/Media/Publica...0_laflamme.pdf
http://www.articlesbase.com/pets-art...ts-190198.html


Anyway, I had a similar problem with my two cats. One is a grazer and always manages to self-regulate his weight, but the other eats like she'll never see food again - she'd be done in less than 2 minutes. At first we didn't know what to do about it, and my one cat starting getting fat. So I put her on Royal Canin Calorie Control, and kept feeding my other cat the same as before (Royal Canin Preventive at the time). She started to lose weight slowly - the first pound came off after about 3 months finally. Then because of her continual begging I tried RC Satiety Support, and she was better... but still ate so fast and begged quite a lot. But she lost the last 2 pounds in the next 5 months, and she is back to a healthy weight! Now she has lost weight, I have switched both my cats to RC Spayed/Neutered Appetite Control. She loves it and still begs when it comes close to mealtime, but because of the kibble shape, she is forced to slow down her eating, and due to the high fibre content that makes her belly feel fuller, she even leaves food in the bowl now after almost every meal (although it's not terribly long before she comes back a few times to finish it)! My other cat also loves it, is excited before every feeding, but still grazes as normal and has kept a super healthy weight and is super lean and muscular. I know they are getting the urinary health benefits as well, because this food is also formulated for it. Their coats are extremely soft, shiny, and thick, they hardly shed, and they have such great energy levels, they're so playful and affectionate.

There's a lot of bad information in this post and only really serves to promote Royal Canin... which by the way is a sub-par product made by a company whose main focus is almost the complete opposite of proper nutrition. Do you honestly think a healthy product is going come from a company that makes choloate bars?

Also seeing that your other posts that you or the mods deleted was also promoting Royal Canin, everyone should consider this post as a shill and be ignored.

[Cheap Cat]

The RIGHT dry food is perfectly fine!

There is no such thing as the right dry food. Why would I need dry food to stimulate thirst (cats are notorious poor water drinkers) when I can meet their water requirements with canned food. But more importantly, you acknowledge that cats are carnivores so why would you think feeding them large amounts of corn would be acceptable? Cats just aren't carnivores, they are obligate carnivores. Obligate being the key word. They have shorter digestive tracts and are not able to fully digest and use the nutrients from plant materials. They need meat and the taurine that it contains. You are not helping your cat by going against nature.

Thanks joeyjoejoe for pointing out this shill. You'd have to have a vested interest to believe this nonsense spread by the pet food industry.

[setell]

I've never had two cats at once but have you tried switching your food for Kyuubi? How about feed him his favourite food? To see if you'll increase his appetite. I honestly got nothing to suggest other than to go to the vet and get things fully checked out. I remember when my cat started getting sick she lost her appetite. We didn't pick up on it fast enough till it got really bad because she was never a big eater. Then she was diagnosed with anemia. For those that don't know, anemia is like a death sentence in cats.

I hope your baby starts eating again Joe

[bluenose2]

I feed my cat wet and dry food.