Computers & Electronics

Help Spec'ing a Rendering Machine?

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  • Oct 13th, 2017 10:00 am
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SickBeast wrote:
Jul 18th, 2017 11:37 am
Leaks with water cooling seem extremely rare, however you do hear about them from time to time. I have been running an H60 for over 5 years without any issues. It's hard to go back to air cooling once you have experienced water cooling. It's dead silent even under full load, and the temperatures are outstanding. Plus like I keep saying, it dumps all the heat outside of your case, keeping all your other components cool. Actually if I were you I would look into water cooled GTX 1080 Ti cards also.
Leaks are not the issue. The problem is you have two failure points: the pump and the fan, unlike a regular HSF. While the fan is easy to replace, the pump is not, and will require a new unit, with considerable downtime. A failed HS fan can be replaced in 10 minutes. My Hydro h55 failed 1 week out of warranty. I was p.o. to say the least. I dug up my old CM 212 and had to dismount the board the change the retention brackets back again.

At any rate, do any of Corsairs products actually have an AM4 mounting system?

NCIX sells the AM4 kit for the CM 212. Newegg has the AM4 kit for Noctua.
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mr_raider wrote:
Jul 18th, 2017 11:09 pm
Found the corsair kit:

http://www.corsair.com/en-us/am4-amd-re ... es-coolers

I suggest you order it ASAP if you want it on time.
Wow, $15 USD for an AM4 mount. So add an extra $20 CAD on top of the cost of H100i. Or get a Noctua (a company that actually cares about its customers) and get a free AM4 mount with free shipping...

I realize this is anecdotal, but my brother-in-law - who's always been a HPC kind of guy that likes lots of cores - used to own an NH-D14. He sold it and bought an H100i... only to regret the purchase so much that he sold the H100i and bought an NH-D15.

And another good buddy of mine (originally an air cooling guy) bought a semi-custom EK XLC Predator and three expensive fans to go with it about a year ago. He cooled his GPU (1080) and CPU (7700K) with this unit till he bought a 1080 Ti. He decided to go with an air cooled model, ditched the water cooler altogether, and bought an NH-D15.

So the two people I know personally who tried high-end AIO WC ended up regretting the purchase enough that they sold their water coolers at a loss and went back to premium air. Don't buy into the AIO hype.

Oh yeah, one more anecdote. I recently sold a CPU/motherboard/RAM combo to a guy who thought there was something wrong with his setup because it was overheating to 100C and shutting down the system. I went over to install the new parts for him (he paid me a little bit to do it because he's not comfortable with hardware) - same problem with the new stuff I sold him. Turns out it was his Zalman AIO cooler, whose pump had failed. Fortunately, I had thrown an old Hyper 212+ in to sweeten the deal and had him up and running in a few minutes after realizing what the problem was. Never would've had that problem with an air cooler.
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birthdaymonkey wrote:
Jul 18th, 2017 11:50 pm
Wow, $15 USD for an AM4 mount. So add an extra $20 CAD on top of the cost of H100i. Or get a Noctua (a company that actually cares about its customers) and get a free AM4 mount with free shipping...

I realize this is anecdotal, but my brother-in-law - who's always been a HPC kind of guy that likes lots of cores - used to own an NH-D14. He sold it and bought an H100i... only to regret the purchase so much that he sold the H100i and bought an NH-D15.

And another good buddy of mine (originally an air cooling guy) bought a semi-custom EK XLC Predator and three expensive fans to go with it about a year ago. He cooled his GPU (1080) and CPU (7700K) with this unit till he bought a 1080 Ti. He decided to go with an air cooled model, ditched the water cooler altogether, and bought an NH-D15.

So the two people I know personally who tried high-end AIO WC ended up regretting the purchase enough that they sold their water coolers at a loss and went back to premium air. Don't buy into the AIO hype.

Oh yeah, one more anecdote. I recently sold a CPU/motherboard/RAM combo to a guy who thought there was something wrong with his setup because it was overheating to 100C and shutting down the system. I went over to install the new parts for him (he paid me a little bit to do it because he's not comfortable with hardware) - same problem with the new stuff I sold him. Turns out it was his Zalman AIO cooler, whose pump had failed. Fortunately, I had thrown an old Hyper 212+ in to sweeten the deal and had him up and running in a few minutes after realizing what the problem was. Never would've had that problem with an air cooler.
You and other RFD members helped me with a build recently (creative work). After all the components were selected, I was contemplating water cooling myself. I don't have a reference point like you do, but the air cooling system makes for dead silent operation. I ended up getting the Cryorig H7 (instead of the C7). It has an offset so there is a ton of clearance for RAM. I was going to get the NH-D15 but didn't like the color (ehhhhhhhh, silly I know).

When it's under heavy load, it's barely perceptible. And when not under heavy load, I can't even tell if the PC is running. Ridiculously quiet. Like I said, I have no water cooling reference, and I'm only running a 1060 GTX card, but I was under the impression operating this silently required water, not air, cooling.
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birthdaymonkey wrote:
Jul 18th, 2017 11:50 pm
Wow, $15 USD for an AM4 mount. So add an extra $20 CAD on top of the cost of H100i. Or get a Noctua (a company that actually cares about its customers) and get a free AM4 mount with free shipping...

I realize this is anecdotal, but my brother-in-law - who's always been a HPC kind of guy that likes lots of cores - used to own an NH-D14. He sold it and bought an H100i... only to regret the purchase so much that he sold the H100i and bought an NH-D15.

And another good buddy of mine (originally an air cooling guy) bought a semi-custom EK XLC Predator and three expensive fans to go with it about a year ago. He cooled his GPU (1080) and CPU (7700K) with this unit till he bought a 1080 Ti. He decided to go with an air cooled model, ditched the water cooler altogether, and bought an NH-D15.

So the two people I know personally who tried high-end AIO WC ended up regretting the purchase enough that they sold their water coolers at a loss and went back to premium air. Don't buy into the AIO hype.

Oh yeah, one more anecdote. I recently sold a CPU/motherboard/RAM combo to a guy who thought there was something wrong with his setup because it was overheating to 100C and shutting down the system. I went over to install the new parts for him (he paid me a little bit to do it because he's not comfortable with hardware) - same problem with the new stuff I sold him. Turns out it was his Zalman AIO cooler, whose pump had failed. Fortunately, I had thrown an old Hyper 212+ in to sweeten the deal and had him up and running in a few minutes after realizing what the problem was. Never would've had that problem with an air cooler.
Well you might want to have a look at this:
Perhaps the biggest reason to choose liquid over air isn’t the convenience of reaching RAM and cable connectors, but the fact that Big Air designs are usually large and heavy. These can weaken motherboards over a course of years, cause instant damage if the system is even slightly mishandled, or even bend down the CPU contacts of Intel’s Land Grid Array (LGA) design. We’ve even seen big-air coolers break off from their mounts and destroy the graphics cards in systems that were being shipped cross country.
From here:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/cpu ... 597-4.html

I would normally agree with you for the most part, by the way. However this build is different. He's using a pair of GTX 1080 Ti cards and also potentially a 16c/32t CPU. That's a ton of heat, even in a big case with good airflow. I really think water cooling is a must for this build. I know first hand what can happen when you use air cooled cards for SLI. With my setup my top card was hitting 87C under load and it was throttling badly. Now that I have my top card water cooled I'm hitting 2050mhz sustained boost speeds compared to 1700mhz before. That's a huge difference. Plus my top card sits at only 55C now under full load, compared to 87C before. Not to mention the noise difference; my GPU fans were running full tilt before. And that's with GTX 1070 SLI. GTX 1080 Ti SLI will easily have double the heat output.
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SickBeast wrote:
Jul 19th, 2017 2:17 pm
I really think water cooling is a must for this build. I know first hand what can happen when you use air cooled cards for SLI. With my setup my top card was hitting 87C under load and it was throttling badly. Now that I have my top card water cooled I'm hitting 2050mhz sustained boost speeds compared to 1700mhz before. That's a huge difference. Plus my top card sits at only 55C now under full load, compared to 87C before. Not to mention the noise difference; my GPU fans were running full tilt before. And that's with GTX 1070 SLI. GTX 1080 Ti SLI will easily have double the heat output.
He's not running his cards SLI; he can put one card in slot 1 and one in slot 3 if he wants, fixing most of the airflow issues you're experiencing. Once the cards aren't (almost) touching each other, we get back to two cards that basically perform like your lower card does; aka, no throttling, but your fan noise concern is valid.

As for "A ton of heat", the Threadripper TDP is apparently 155w, while my Q6600 was 105w (and more than that when I was overclocking it), and I had it on a Noctua cooler with zero issues in a pretty lame (by today's standards) case .... CPU fan was definitely inaudible. The videocards, however, will be pretty loud @ full clip; for that, watercooling would be pretty nice, but far from necessary, again IMO.

Since the cards come bone stock with air coolers; might as well give them a go and see how it is. If they're too loud / throttle @ high loads, then he can just buy watercoolers and install them later. Unless you're suggesting he buy already watercooled cards? Do those exist with AIO water coolers pre-installed?
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ChubChub wrote:
Jul 19th, 2017 8:41 pm
He's not running his cards SLI; he can put one card in slot 1 and one in slot 3 if he wants, fixing most of the airflow issues you're experiencing. Once the cards aren't (almost) touching each other, we get back to two cards that basically perform like your lower card does; aka, no throttling, but your fan noise concern is valid.

As for "A ton of heat", the Threadripper TDP is apparently 155w, while my Q6600 was 105w (and more than that when I was overclocking it), and I had it on a Noctua cooler with zero issues in a pretty lame (by today's standards) case .... CPU fan was definitely inaudible. The videocards, however, will be pretty loud @ full clip; for that, watercooling would be pretty nice, but far from necessary, again IMO.

Since the cards come bone stock with air coolers; might as well give them a go and see how it is. If they're too loud / throttle @ high loads, then he can just buy watercoolers and install them later. Unless you're suggesting he buy already watercooled cards? Do those exist with AIO water coolers pre-installed?
I already linked the OP to them, EVGA makes water cooled nVidia cards and also MSI. I actually own an EVGA hybrid GTX 1070. It's a great card. There is about a $100 premium for this type of card but it's well worth it IMO.
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SickBeast wrote:
Jul 19th, 2017 2:17 pm
Well you might want to have a look at this:
Yes I've heard of that before, and I certainly wouldn't ship an assembled system with a large air cooler across the country. However, nobody I've known who has used a big air cooler (myself included... used to own an NH-D14 before I went ITX for my main rig) has ever had a problem with damage to the motherboard from the weight. And have a look at the comments - many people are rightly pointing out that this writer seems to be rather biased in favour of liquid cooling. He brings up the corner case of big air coolers bending mobos without mentioning any uncommon negative side effects of AIO cooling (leaks, pump failure).

Anyways, I'm biased against WC because I like my computer to be dead silent (not just figuratively the way some people toss this term around) when at idle. I like to minimize fan RPMs (or just get rid of as many fans as possible), don't use spinning disks, only buy GPUs and PSUs that shut off fans at idle. In this context, a WC pump (even a good one) starts to sound extremely noisy. I realize AIOs have their place in some builds, but in a full tower case (not a mid tower here... there's a big difference), I'd go with a nice air cooler every time.
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[OP]
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Not overly related to this thread, but there's talk of AMD Threadripper chips being bundled with water cooling <TechRadar>.
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orbitdesign wrote:
Aug 9th, 2017 9:13 am
Hey guys, now that TR is launching tomorrow, I've compiled a quick build:
https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/TmtMWX

Thoughts or recommendations?

Again, I really appreciate everyone's help in this!
Hard to comment on a build when the most expensive component price is not known.

BTW, you need to check if the x399 can actually RAID 2 NVME drives.

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/x399-r ... 35149.html
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mr_raider wrote:
Aug 9th, 2017 12:09 pm
Hard to comment on a build when the most expensive component price is not known.

BTW, you need to check if the x399 can actually RAID 2 NVME drives.

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/x399-r ... 35149.html
If it doesn't, I'll maybe up the size of the NVMe drive and throw in something else for file storage. I also don't know if I should go with a third party CPU cooler or if TR will actually ship with one (that will be able to support OC'ing).
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orbitdesign wrote:
Aug 9th, 2017 12:36 pm
If it doesn't, I'll maybe up the size of the NVMe drive and throw in something else for file storage. I also don't know if I should go with a third party CPU cooler or if TR will actually ship with one (that will be able to support OC'ing).
How about we wait until someone can actually buy the damn thing before speculating. I have serious reservations about dropping 1k on a CPU, Intel or AMD.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/11689/amd ... r-unboxing
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orbitdesign wrote:
Aug 9th, 2017 9:13 am
Hey guys, now that TR is launching tomorrow, I've compiled a quick build:
https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/TmtMWX

Thoughts or recommendations?

Again, I really appreciate everyone's help in this!
I would imagine that CPU cooler is inadequate for this chip; it technically fits TR4, but it's actually the size of the lid on normal chips. To me, it's physically about half (or maybe even a third) the size it needs to be.

I'm not sure where the cores are, but smart money is that one is at one end, and the other is at the other end, so you'd want a cooler that physically covers these two areas, instead of relying on convection across the lid to propagate the heat to the cooled areas.
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ChubChub wrote:
Aug 10th, 2017 1:27 pm
I would imagine that CPU cooler is inadequate for this chip; it technically fits TR4, but it's actually the size of the lid on normal chips. To me, it's physically about half (or maybe even a third) the size it needs to be.

I'm not sure where the cores are, but smart money is that one is at one end, and the other is at the other end, so you'd want a cooler that physically covers these two areas, instead of relying on convection across the lid to propagate the heat to the cooled areas.
Yea, the cooler was a place holder since none were announced at the time. I've been looking into all of the TR coolers that cover the full chip. Pretty excited for this after seeing some early benchmarks.

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