Automotive

Help us settle family debate - drop by with your strong opinion ;-)

  • Last Updated:
  • May 4th, 2019 1:19 am
Deal Fanatic
Oct 6, 2007
7434 posts
3706 upvotes
Kootenays
If you can find a 2016 Venza , ours has been fantastic. Because it's been discontinued, prices should be at a discount. It shares lots of parts with other models, so parts will never be an issue. The back seat room in incredible. We have the I4/fwd and the lifetime average gas mileage is 9.2 l/100km, a 30% savings over our minivan.
[OP]
Jr. Member
Aug 23, 2014
181 posts
61 upvotes
Vancouver, BC
jackrabbit000 wrote: I have a Honda Odyssey and am in the same situation. Love the room for hauling people and stuff around. We’re looking at some type of SUV. RAV 4, CX-5 or Santa Fe etc but not a CRV or another Honda vehicle. But, seriously leaning towards a new Ford Explorer for the 4x4.
Just wondering why Honda/CR-V were off your list, esp as a current Honda owner?
Deal Addict
Apr 22, 2013
2176 posts
1406 upvotes
Markham
I second looking at the Toyota Venza as a good used option, its definitely larger inside than any RAV4 or CRV. Although I'd recommend the V6, I didn't enjoy any of the 4-cylinder ones.

Another good option is the Subaru Outback, also larger than the CRV and RAV4 but its not as wide or extremely long like a minivan. Outback is very much mid sized versus compact. This one is more tolerable with a 4-cylinder, but if going used the 3.6 H6 engine is very nice.
Deal Fanatic
Oct 6, 2007
7434 posts
3706 upvotes
Kootenays
JeganV wrote: I second looking at the Toyota Venza as a good used option, its definitely larger inside than any RAV4 or CRV. Although I'd recommend the V6, I didn't enjoy any of the 4-cylinder ones.
Ours has been terrific. I've never once wished for more power and we've driven from the interior to the Island 7 or 8 times in the past couple of years fully loaded. If anything, at highway speed, I really have to watch it passing because if I floor it, I'm quickly 40 kph over the limit and we lose our vehicle for a week for that in BC. It does sound a bit rough, but it has since new and we have 262,000 kms on it now. In fact, my wife is on her way to Edmonton tomorrow morning (500 km each way) to pick our son up from school and bring him and his stuff home. She has 4 x 112 litre bins that they'll put his stuff in with the seats dropped and still have room for 2 bags of dog food and a Costco run, along with her weekend luggage.
Member
Jan 21, 2011
264 posts
104 upvotes
kitscha wrote: Thanks all... responses/thoughts:

- we're currently in a 2009 minivan, it served us well but it's time has come
- option #1 is Honda certified - so buying used would still give us a solid three years and 90,000kms of warranty... but yeah, it's used (then again, is $10k+ less than new - that buys quite a few brakes and tires)
- stay away from the ex-rentals, got it!
- leasing new is def an option, I'm just nervous about sinking three years of payments into something that we eventually decide we don't want = no equity... can you help me understand the benefits? (new car I guess is the big benefit)
- if we dig for more options: older RAV 4 vs older Honda CR-V - which way would you jump?

Appreciate all the assistance so far!
What I meant is buy a used vehicle with less than 60 000km on it so you are not doing work right away. Anywhere in between 0km and 30 000km will give at least a year before you have to worry about anything. That 10k savings might only be 8k if you have to do brakes and tires right away...

I would go with the v6 Venza too, or get a Rav with the 8 spd tranny, some of the earlier 6 spd had problems with the torque converter
[OP]
Jr. Member
Aug 23, 2014
181 posts
61 upvotes
Vancouver, BC
ar2020 wrote: If you're only looking at keeping this car for 3-4 years remember this:

It is better to lease 2 cars over 8 year span than buy 2 cars within 8 year span.
Can you break down the numbers for me why this is?
[OP]
Jr. Member
Aug 23, 2014
181 posts
61 upvotes
Vancouver, BC
zoro69 wrote: "- stay away from the ex-rentals, got it! "

No i would look there. a car 6 months to a year old at a significant discount, 20k-40Km or so, with lots of warranty left. A lot cheaper then leasing new and ending up with nothing.
I was looking at cars 2 years old, and buying direct from the rental company (they seem to try to offload most at the 2-3yr/45,000kms mark, most are accident-free). They all generally have 10-15,000kms left on the comprehensive warranty, then another two years/40,000kms on the powertrain warranty. I know that the stereotype is that rentals are driven harder (though personally I always drove them more cautiously!) but they have also been regularly serviced, cleaned and maintained. So there are pluses as well as minuses.
Sr. Member
Mar 16, 2007
800 posts
120 upvotes
kitscha wrote: Can you break down the numbers for me why this is?
In a simple Consumer Reports 6 year example, you pay $7,288 more to buy, but now you have the resale value of $9,675. So you're up $2,387 and can keep driving with no payments while the one who chooses to lease just keeps paying over and over. If you want to keep the vehicle, then buy it. Nobody can restrict how many km's you place on it per year, or how much wear and tear is acceptable. The vehicle is yours, not theirs.
[OP]
Jr. Member
Aug 23, 2014
181 posts
61 upvotes
Vancouver, BC
tripwire wrote: In a simple Consumer Reports 6 year example, you pay $7,288 more to buy, but now you have the resale value of $9,675. So you're up $2,387 and can keep driving with no payments while the one who chooses to lease just keeps paying over and over. If you want to keep the vehicle, then buy it. Nobody can restrict how many km's you place on it per year, or how much wear and tear is acceptable. The vehicle is yours, not theirs.
The previous poster is saying the opposite - that it's better to lease two cars over eight years than buy two. So I'm curious as to the reasoning.
[OP]
Jr. Member
Aug 23, 2014
181 posts
61 upvotes
Vancouver, BC
ar2020 wrote: Please read this breakdown of 3 years vs 6 years vs 9 years. It gives a very good idea of how lease numbers work.

https://www.cartelligent.com/blog/buy-v ... w-3-series
Ah, now I see. Very interesting, thank you!

It's a bit counter-intuitive, because I assumed if you didn't buy the car at lease end then you were throwing money away. But this makes sense.
Sr. Member
Mar 16, 2007
800 posts
120 upvotes
kitscha wrote: The previous poster is saying the opposite - that it's better to lease two cars over eight years than buy two. So I'm curious as to the reasoning.
Go price a CRV EX and compare Lease to finance, and run a future black book value

You'll have paid $16,425.19 more to finance after four years. Now go take that vehicle and trade it in for about $17,500 for another. So after 8 years of financing, it comes out to about 12k more than two leases back to back. But now while he goes to lease his third in a row, you can keep driving your second vehicle as long as you want, payment free. By the time his third lease has expired, he's now payed about 10k more, while you should have an 8 year old vehicle with some value left on it. If you decide to trade in every four years instead, you still will keep paying less than a lease every term due to your resale value. During that time period, you own the vehicles and don't owe anyone for exceeding their max km's, or for what they deem excessive wear and tear. Only lease if you don't like driving anything for more than a few years starting from your first term.

I forgot to mention if I choose to trade in the CRV after four years and decide to lease my next one, then after 8 years I'm paying $47,212.61 to his $52,596.34.
[OP]
Jr. Member
Aug 23, 2014
181 posts
61 upvotes
Vancouver, BC
Update: checked out a few models on the weekend, think we'll be fine to downsize to a compact SUV. Yes, smaller than a minivan but a good use of the space. I saw a 2017 Nissan Rogue that I liked - wasn't really on my radar before.

So - another theoretical question. Our credit is solid but our income is unpredictable (self-employed). In an ideal world, we'd keep this car for 5-6 years and then move to another model before age/mileage becomes too much of an issue. Knowing those things, would it be better to:

a) buy a used 2017 Rogue SV AWD for around $22,000 + tax. Down payment $10k, finance the rest @ 5.99% across three years. Up side: own the car outright at the end of three years. Down side: one year left on comprehensive, two years on powertrain warranty. So for the final year of payments we'd be outside of all warranties.

b) lease a new 2019 Rogue SV AWD (in stock at dealer for $34,000 + tax). Assume 0.99% interest for two year lease, no down payment. At lease end, use $10k + financing (assume 5.99%) to buy out car across two years (dumb question: is buyout price always just net cost less lease payments?) Up side: drive a new warrantied car without tying up down payment and maintaining cashflow (we'd have two years to build a dedicated $10k down payment instead of using current savings), and all payments made while car under warranty. Downside: four years of payments, and paying for the depreciation on a new car.

Thoughts? Which is smarter?

(The Rogue is used for the sake of argument - could sub any SUV of similar residual value)
Newbie
Mar 3, 2019
91 posts
70 upvotes
Benefits of leasing are you are essentially paying for the depreciation. You are also covered mechanically for warranty and you'd be keeping up with trends quicker than buying out. I don't understand why we aren't at the point where vehicles are a service rather than an investment. Given how infotainment screens and technology evolves so quickly, it makes sense for car to be lease. Why would I want to buyout a car with dated tech? Would you buy a 4 year old iPhone? Cars depreciate so badly I don't understand why anyone would want to "own" one. My whole thing is this:
Lease for 3 years or Buyout for 3 years. After 2 years who owns that car? Still the bank. You do not own it until the loan is paid off in full.

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