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Highschool students get free stuff just for attending school.

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  • Sep 13th, 2012 10:06 am
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Corleone187 wrote:
Sep 12th, 2012 12:24 pm
Forcing kids to do good in school is useless because they become dependent on being pushed/nagged by someone else other than themselves. When that person is no longer around it would be hard for the kid to self-manage because they were motivated by being nagged from others, not really self sufficient

Kids should want to go to school. This is why giving kids stuff is a good idea
I lol'd.
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ronin1701 wrote:
Sep 12th, 2012 1:36 pm
Yes and no.

Did poor kids drop out of school to work to earn money so they could buy cool stuff, or to help the family put food on the table?
You can just think about it and see where the motivation lies. How about gangs and small petty crimes? If you have kids robbing convenience stores or robbing other kids, what are they doing it for? It's never about putting food on the table. Putting food on the table is like the 1st essential on Maslows's hierarchy of needs and is usually the 1st thing that is fulfilled my mostly everyone already.

If u make $200 a month where is that money going to go? Guaranteed it will go to food/shelter etc. Most families will make more than $200 even if they are dirt poor. They will make enough to afford the basics but not more. The basics like food are almost always met by everyone in society.

Kids drop out and work to get cool stuff. People rob convenience stores and steal for cool stuff, they dont do it to feed themselves for the most part.

Think about it, instead of having gangs dealing drugs for money to buy cool stuff for themselves the gangs would just be in school competing to get high grades to get cool stuff instead!
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loserga wrote:
Sep 12th, 2012 2:10 pm
The dangling carrot has never worked for me. My parents tried it a few times and gave up when it became apparent that I couldn't even agree to deals due to my lack of confidence.

And someone else hit the nail when they said that some kids just don't see grades as anything tangible. I certainly don't feel that way, and I'd prefer to read a book (and actually learn something) in class if I didn't have to worry about my CS GPA.

On the other hand, I've met some interesting lecturers whose lectures I would sit through even if I wasn't taking the course.
This is the whole point. If you love GPAs good for you. You're going to be in school anyways whether you get cool stuff or not. Getting rewarded with cool stuff isn't going to make someone want to stop learning right? No nerd is going to say that they love learning but now that they are getting rewarded with cool stuff instead of GPAs that they are no longer motivated to go to school.

It's about the kids that dont want to go to school
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Corleone187 wrote:
Sep 12th, 2012 5:36 pm
This is the whole point. If you love GPAs good for you. You're going to be in school anyways whether you get cool stuff or not. Getting rewarded with cool stuff isn't going to make someone want to stop learning right? No nerd is going to say that they love learning but now that they are getting rewarded with cool stuff instead of GPAs that they are no longer motivated to go to school.

It's about the kids that dont want to go to school
It's like the saying about the horse.

You can get the kids through the door (for one day anyways) but you can't make them learn anything.

The ones who actually want to learn will be there already.
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Corleone187 wrote:
Sep 12th, 2012 5:36 pm
This is the whole point. If you love GPAs good for you. You're going to be in school anyways whether you get cool stuff or not. Getting rewarded with cool stuff isn't going to make someone want to stop learning right? No nerd is going to say that they love learning but now that they are getting rewarded with cool stuff instead of GPAs that they are no longer motivated to go to school.

It's about the kids that dont want to go to school
It's about the stuff at school that doesn't interest kids. I've always been interested in stuff that were never covered in the elementary school curriculum, and I suffered for it. Not to mention most of our subjects were taught by unqualified teachers. You simply don't have an Art teacher teaching Mathematics to already pissed-off kids. High school was a lot more interesting because there were finally some topics that I could throw myself into. In university, I could take whatever breadth courses I want. I'm just pissed that it's taken this long to get to a point where I can start making my own decisions regarding my career.

And you know what? In Grade 6 I had a great music teacher who was actually a musician. He coordinated our band, did some pretty cool stuff, only to leave the next year. The teacher which replaced him was dull, we barely played any instruments that year and had to deal with all that theory crap, and everyone stopped looking forward to music class. How could you get students interested in music if they can't even play it in class?
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Corleone187 wrote:
Sep 12th, 2012 5:31 pm
You can just think about it and see where the motivation lies. How about gangs and small petty crimes? If you have kids robbing convenience stores or robbing other kids, what are they doing it for? It's never about putting food on the table. Putting food on the table is like the 1st essential on Maslows's hierarchy of needs and is usually the 1st thing that is fulfilled my mostly everyone already.

If u make $200 a month where is that money going to go? Guaranteed it will go to food/shelter etc. Most families will make more than $200 even if they are dirt poor. They will make enough to afford the basics but not more. The basics like food are almost always met by everyone in society.

Kids drop out and work to get cool stuff. People rob convenience stores and steal for cool stuff, they dont do it to feed themselves for the most part.

Think about it, instead of having gangs dealing drugs for money to buy cool stuff for themselves the gangs would just be in school competing to get high grades to get cool stuff instead!
Yes, that explains the homeless people and families living in their cars in parking lots.
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ronin1701 wrote:
Sep 12th, 2012 5:44 pm
It's like the saying about the horse.

You can get the kids through the door (for one day anyways) but you can't make them learn anything.

The ones who actually want to learn will be there already.
This is exactly the point. A lot of kids can't relate to grades/marks. Grades/Marks are too abstract for many kids and not tangible. But cool stuff isn't abstract and very tangible. If you give kids cool stuff for going to school they are going to want to go to school and learn. This is mimicking the real world. Like when you work hard to buy something you really like in the real world.

It's also a good idea because the class system would be less of a factor to students. Rich kids go to school and dont really have to worry about work because they are going to get cool stuff from their parents anyways. Poor kids go to school but they also have the pressures of wanting stuff other kids have (put the parents cant afford) which may lead them towards maybe working bad jobs to obtain the cool stuff they want instead of going to school
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ronin1701 wrote:
Sep 12th, 2012 5:46 pm
Yes, that explains the homeless people and families living in their cars in parking lots.
and how many of those people are there? Like entire families living in cars in Canada? hardly any. I've personally never seen an entire family living in a car ever in canada

You have to talk about the majority of people. THe majority of poor people in canada have enough for food and shelter since those are the 1st needs that are dealt with before anything else. When a kid goes out to work its to get the extra things in life, like the cool stuff he wants but his parents cant buy him
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Corleone187 wrote:
Sep 12th, 2012 5:57 pm
This is exactly the point. A lot of kids can't relate to grades/marks. Grades/Marks are too abstract for many kids and not tangible. But cool stuff isn't abstract and very tangible. If you give kids cool stuff for going to school they are going to want to go to school and learn. This is mimicking the real world. Like when you work hard to buy something you really like in the real world.
No, they're going to want to go school, but nothing is going to get them to learn anything. And worse yet, their negative and disruptive attitudes are only going to infect the other kids around them (the ones who really do want to learn something).
Corleone187 wrote:
Sep 12th, 2012 5:57 pm
It's also a good idea because the class system would be less of a factor to students. Rich kids go to school and dont really have to worry about work because they are going to get cool stuff from their parents anyways. Poor kids go to school but they also have the pressures of wanting stuff other kids have (put the parents cant afford) which may lead them towards maybe working bad jobs to obtain the cool stuff they want instead of going to school
Not sure how the class system comes into play here. Not sure if you've noticed, but schools tend to draw their students based on their geographic area and there aren't a lot of rich kids going to schools located in poor areas, and vice versa. And there's a good chance that if a poor kid is going to a school in a rich neighbourhood, it's because they've found a way to deliberately arrange for their registration to be transferred there, and that would seem to me that they're already motivated to get the best education possible (FYI - while it's not universal, richer schools do also tend to have the better teachers).
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Corleone187 wrote:
Sep 12th, 2012 6:05 pm
and how many of those people are there? Like entire families living in cars in Canada? hardly any. I've personally never seen an entire family living in a car ever in canada

You have to talk about the majority of people. THe majority of poor people in canada have enough for food and shelter since those are the 1st needs that are dealt with before anything else. When a kid goes out to work its to get the extra things in life, like the cool stuff he wants but his parents cant buy him
Hm, call me confused, but I thought this thread was about what was happening in Michigan. Also known as Rust-belt Central.
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ronin1701 wrote:
Sep 12th, 2012 6:07 pm
No, they're going to want to go school, but nothing is going to get them to learn anything. And worse yet, their negative and disruptive attitudes are only going to infect the other kids around them (the ones who really do want to learn something).



Not sure how the class system comes into play here. Not sure if you've noticed, but schools tend to draw their students based on their geographic area and there aren't a lot of rich kids going to schools located in poor areas, and vice versa. And there's a good chance that if a poor kid is going to a school in a rich neighbourhood, it's because they've found a way to deliberately arrange for their registration to be transferred there, and that would seem to me that they're already motivated to get the best education possible (FYI - while it's not universal, richer schools do also tend to have the better teachers).
You have to understand that if someone wants to do something there is a reward system.
If you want to learn for the sake of learning and nothing else, good, thats your reward and thats not the students we're talking about because they will be in school regardless
You can also want to learn for the sake of getting stuff in return. Like say when you work hard driving a cab for income to buy a house in real life. Maybe you dont want to drive a cab, but you do cause you are motivated by the house, not the cab. Kids can be motivated by getting cool stuff. Enjoying what you learn is great but its really not required that you enjoy learning, as long as you learn it. Thats where the cool stuff comes in.

In regards to class im referring to kids staying in school and what motivates a kid to not go to school and leave. A poor kid has more forces propelling him to do other things other then go to school as opposed to a rich kid. For one a poor kid may want some cool stuff which he will have to get a job. If you're a rich kid and you already have the stuff there is little motivation to leave the school and get a job
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ronin1701 wrote:
Sep 12th, 2012 6:11 pm
Hm, call me confused, but I thought this thread was about what was happening in Michigan. Also known as Rust-belt Central.
Even in Michigan I highly doubt families living in cars is anywhere near the norm. Probably not even a fraction of 1%.
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The majority of people who are homeless are not homeless purely due to economic issues; they usually have significant mental health and/or substance abuse issues.
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ronin1701 wrote:
Sep 12th, 2012 5:44 pm
The ones who actually want to learn will be there already.
This is the reason why I refuse to reward good grades with money. My children have complained on occasion that their friends would be getting tons of money for the grades they were bringing in.

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