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Highway robbery (over saturation of designated CA's)

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  • Jun 4th, 2014 11:06 pm
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Deal Addict
Apr 21, 2014
2321 posts
1106 upvotes
Alberta

Highway robbery (over saturation of designated CA's)

I'm a CA with about 10 yrs of professional and due to circumstances have started looking at contract opportunities. Since most companies don't list their contract opportunities I have enlisted the services of finance recruiting companies (Robert half, Lannick etc).

I have spoken to many people who do contract work and the general rule is that companies pay 1.5 to 2 times the amount for a contract position. For example for a position that is 100k you would look at a base rate of 50 per hour, and then multiply that rate by at least a factor of 1.30-1.5, depending if its short term, long term, and to adjust for no vacation or benefits etc.

I went to an interview where the recruiting company was offering 50 an hour (talked them up to 55 an hr) and found out during the interview that the company is paying 90 an hour for that role. The recruiting firm is wanting to pocket 45 bucks an hour!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I spoke to my buddy who is in recruiting as well, and he mentioned that they pay based on who is willing to take the least pay so they can pocket the most commission. 5 yrs ago, they would have had to offer around the 70 per hour rate. But now designated accountants with experience are wiling to devalue themselves to get temp roles due to unrmployment.
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User avatar
Nov 12, 2013
927 posts
209 upvotes
Iceland
You're complaining about 55 an hour? No one is going to feel sorry for you.
Deal Addict
Nov 22, 2009
2782 posts
664 upvotes
Toronto
Wow 55/hr.... i can only wish...
Deal Addict
Apr 21, 2014
2321 posts
1106 upvotes
Alberta
The point is not for anyone to feel sorry for anyone else. But everyone has different skills and qualifications, and is at a different stage in their career.

What's shocking is the discrepancy between what employers are willing to pay, and what seasoned professionals are willing to accept. That gap wasnt as large 4 or 5 yrs ago.

I have friends in IT, that take contract positions between 60 to 70 an hour. Keep in mind, contract work is risky, no job security, no benefits, have up get insurance.
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User avatar
Nov 12, 2013
927 posts
209 upvotes
Iceland
60-70 an hour for IT in Ontario? Wow, unreal. If there really was an accounting overload that salary would continue to go down, when its at $30-40 an hour i'd complain. I'm more amazed you have friends making $70 an hour doing IT that arent in the states.
Sr. Member
Sep 29, 2007
762 posts
247 upvotes
Whether contract or permanent jobs, the market for CA's....oh excuse me, CPA's is a joke now. Got a colleague actively looking for 8 months and the best he has had is 2 job offers at 20k less than what he makes now. Mind you he is a CGA but has nearly 20 years experience. These are jobs where he would be supervising 5 to 8 people and they are offering 80K as a base. It's absurd!

There is no question all three institutes passed through way too many designated accountants in the last decade. Anyone have stats re: awarded designations versus retirements in each of the three designations for last 10 to 15 years??? Would love to see those stats. Of course they are not available as the institutes don't want anyone to see the reality of the situation we are in
Deal Addict
Apr 21, 2014
2321 posts
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Alberta
Hydropwnics wrote: 60-70 an hour for IT in Ontario? Wow, unreal. If there really was an accounting overload that salary would continue to go down, when its at $30-40 an hour i'd complain. I'm more amazed you have friends making $70 an hour doing IT that arent in the states.
Although their degrees are in IT management, they work for companies that do ERP implementations. So not really traditional IT roles.
Deal Addict
Apr 21, 2014
2321 posts
1106 upvotes
Alberta
Hydropwnics wrote: 60-70 an hour for IT in Ontario? Wow, unreal. If there really was an accounting overload that salary would continue to go down, when its at $30-40 an hour i'd complain. I'm more amazed you have friends making $70 an hour doing IT that arent in the states.
I'm talking about qualified CA's, with experience. Not bookkeepers or technical accounting people. I'm talking about those with skills leading a large team, experience in valuing transactions (acquisitions), business process improvement skills, project management, and experience going to market for debt and share issuances.

CA's and other accountants do a lot more than what the general population considers to be a traditional accounting role.
Deal Addict
Apr 21, 2014
2321 posts
1106 upvotes
Alberta
Hydropwnics wrote: You're complaining about 55 an hour? No one is going to feel sorry for you.
Just because its a lot of money it doesn't mean that is fair market value. Would a cardiac surgeon be happy with 150k a year? Yes it is a lot of money, but it is not fmv.

I'm complaining about the difference between what the employer is willing to pay vs what a designated accountant WITH experience is willing to take through an agency. I'm not talking about the absolute dollar value.

I was under the impression that the markup would only be 20 percent or so.
Deal Addict
User avatar
Jan 14, 2006
1093 posts
43 upvotes
Toronto
I agree that it's pretty low for a contract work for an experienced CA/CPA.
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Sep 13, 2005
6905 posts
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Ottawa
Why are you upset? You undersold yourself and did a piss poor job of doing a proper market evaluation of your skillset worth. That's how it's always been, how much you value yourself. I hope you do a better job with your valuations at work when it's not you at stake for the repercussions.

Personally, I wouldn't accept that job even at $55, too low but then I also won't talk to a recruiter unless you hit the $75+ range. Waste of my time to give me crap paying jobs from greedy recruiters that's not serious. I have low tolerance for those type of recruiters.
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Dec 2, 2002
1737 posts
565 upvotes
Is the $55/hr negotiatiated for long/short term or on call?

Because if your guaranteed 40+ hours a week for six months or longer at a a time I'd say $55hr is reasonable.

On the other hand if your called in for a few hours randomly once in a blue moon, I'd pass.
Jr. Member
Apr 5, 2011
103 posts
9 upvotes
Finally, a thread that reflects my fears regarding the CA designation.

I apologize if I am taking this thread in a different direction but I am finishing up my three years in one of the international non big four firms. I want a bit of advise/direction, should I stick it out in the public accounting and than move to industry at a manager level or "specialize", I have been leaning towards pursuing another designation, specifically finance related such as CBV or CFA.

As corny as it sounds, I enjoy working with numbers be it crunching or analysing etc. I just want to get paid a little more. The "premium" , and I don't mean any disrespect to other designations, that CAs had over others is diminishing due to saturation and merger, this is obviously my opinion.
Deal Fanatic
Mar 15, 2005
6024 posts
1873 upvotes
Hydropwnics wrote: 60-70 an hour for IT in Ontario? Wow, unreal. If there really was an accounting overload that salary would continue to go down, when its at $30-40 an hour i'd complain. I'm more amazed you have friends making $70 an hour doing IT that arent in the states.
I have a friend who probably pockets around 60-70/hour for IT work he does but keep in mind:

1) He has absolutely no benefits at all so it is up to him to get any necessary health insurance (his wifes job covers him in this case) and save for his own pension.
2) He has to take a lot of short term contracts. Most are 1-3 months. He has had gaps where he has no work for 1-2 months so it is risky in that sense. He has absolutely no job security
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Jun 11, 2001
9475 posts
1610 upvotes
Then don't go through a recruiting company and do your own foot work and get that $90+/hr.
...zzz...zzz...zzz...

www.heatware.com
Deal Addict
Apr 21, 2014
2321 posts
1106 upvotes
Alberta
setell wrote: Why are you upset? You undersold yourself and did a piss poor job of doing a proper market evaluation of your skillset worth. That's how it's always been, how much you value yourself. I hope you do a better job with your valuations at work when it's not you at stake for the repercussions.

Personally, I wouldn't accept that job even at $55, too low but then I also won't talk to a recruiter unless you hit the $75+ range. Waste of my time to give me crap paying jobs from greedy recruiters that's not seurious. I have low tolerance for those type of recruiters.
I didnt accept the job. I told them I wasnt even looking at roles under 65, especially if its a shorter term contract. They convinced me to at least go to the interview to check it out, and that is where I learned what the company was actually paying.

Thats when I talked to my buddy and he told me that I will see very few roles postes for 70 plus an hour because they can find CA's willing to take the role for the 55 range.

I do know my market value. This was just an eye opener on the 'cut' yhe recruiting firms are actually taking.
Deal Addict
Apr 21, 2014
2321 posts
1106 upvotes
Alberta
sleepyguy wrote: Then don't go through a recruiting company and do your own foot work and get that $90+/hr.
I agree. I do think that the recruiters should be making their fair cut. I would have assumes they would pay out 75 an hour for a role they secure at 90. I didnt realize the market was so saturated that they could offer that $90 role for 50 or 55 and still have qualified candidates willing to take the role.
Deal Addict
Apr 21, 2014
2321 posts
1106 upvotes
Alberta
Kenneth wrote: Is the $55/hr negotiatiated for long/short term or on call?

Because if your guaranteed 40+ hours a week for six months or longer at a a time I'd say $55hr is reasonable.

On the other hand if your called in for a few hours randomly once in a blue moon, I'd pass.
It was a full time contract poaition for only 3 months. I emailed the recruiting company after the interview and told them I am not considering it unless they up the rate to 65 plus an hour. Not surprised I havent received a response.

I find the recruiters on the permanent search side, much better than the contract.
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User avatar
Oct 1, 2011
6337 posts
1505 upvotes
It's not directly the recruiters' fault. Of course they want to maximize their gain.

The primary fault lies with professionals who undercut the value of their, and their peers', expertise/work. "Race to the bottom".

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