Students

History degree?

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nalababe wrote:
Nov 11th, 2017 8:03 am
again wrong mindset.
First, this can be a first step into countless fields.

Second, I can walk around the office and find people in almost every area of the company with a degree that wouldn't be what you expect. I, for example, head a marketing department. My field of study was Biology (Genetics). Country head for our Service organization has a degree in Opera. Colleagues in Sales, Marketing, Contracts, Proposals, logistics, communications, product management, IT, service leadership, technical support leadership all have a degree or diploma you wouldn't expect.

Yes, but that's because they couldn't land to their field once they got graduated and then they start off with their career else than their concentration and then slowly grow their career to something else. This is very common and I know.
My wife works in I.Bank and their bosses are engineers, not BComm.

But when you choose your field (and you still; have to chance to chose what you study), you want to study something that you interested in PLUS you know there is a demand for this field once you get out.
No body want to pay 3-4 years of university tuition and come out not able to get a job and realize what he/she studies is not what the market have to offer.
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MP3_SKY wrote:
Nov 11th, 2017 11:18 am
Yes, but that's because they couldn't land to their field once they got graduated and then they start off with their career else than their concentration and then slowly grow their career to something else. This is very common and I know.
My wife works in I.Bank and their bosses are engineers, not BComm.

But when you choose your field (and you still; have to chance to chose what you study), you want to study something that you interested in PLUS you know there is a demand for this field once you get out.
No body want to pay 3-4 years of university tuition and come out not able to get a job and realize what he/she studies is not what the market have to offer.
The idea that field A leads to job B is part of the problem with many taking university today. That is not how the world works for the most part...

You are going to university to learn how to learn, learn how to deal with the rigours of adult life, learn how to work with people.

If I was posting for a new grad to work in my marketing department. I couldn't care less what degree they had. What I would look for is someone who can articulate why they are excited about the position, have proven that they can learn and, most importantly, someone who can define their passion. And for a 40k or so job, with good benefits, I am sure that I'd have an ample pool to draw from. And yes, I would just as readily take someone with a History Degree as someone with a commerce or business degree.
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Some degrees are more geared towards employment than others. STEM degrees are such degrees. There exists a clearer career path for people with these degrees. In comparison, there are very few jobs that specifically ask for a history degree.
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nalababe wrote:
Nov 11th, 2017 1:29 pm
The idea that field A leads to job B is part of the problem with many taking university today. That is not how the world works for the most part...

You are going to university to learn how to learn, learn how to deal with the rigours of adult life, learn how to work with people.

If I was posting for a new grad to work in my marketing department. I couldn't care less what degree they had. What I would look for is someone who can articulate why they are excited about the position, have proven that they can learn and, most importantly, someone who can define their passion. And for a 40k or so job, with good benefits, I am sure that I'd have an ample pool to draw from. And yes, I would just as readily take someone with a History Degree as someone with a commerce or business degree.
If both candidate is equal in terms of experience/passion, would you rather hire a marketing graduate for your department or a sociology graduate? If both are very passionate and are willing to learn, would you rather hire the person with some knowledge of the industry or someone with absolutely no knowledge? Also, how would you be able to tell if someone is more passionate than others without actually interviewing them? If you have like 50 of these resumes are you going to skim through the pile to find the graduates with totally unrelated degrees?

Shouldn't you assume the one with the marketing degree be more passionate for this industry because he/she applied to this program? If someone is that passionate about marketing in general, why would they apply to a totally unrelated program in the first place?
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blitzforce wrote:
Nov 20th, 2017 5:14 pm
If both candidate is equal in terms of experience/passion, would you rather hire a marketing graduate for your department or a sociology graduate? If both are very passionate and are willing to learn, would you rather hire the person with some knowledge of the industry or someone with absolutely no knowledge? Also, how would you be able to tell if someone is more passionate than others without actually interviewing them? If you have like 50 of these resumes are you going to skim through the pile to find the graduates with totally unrelated degrees?

Shouldn't you assume the one with the marketing degree be more passionate for this industry because he/she applied to this program? If someone is that passionate about marketing in general, why would they apply to a totally unrelated program in the first place?
I would take the candidate that I believed had something special...regardless of studies.

There is a great video on Netflix (hopefully still there). It is of Steve Jobs when he was at the point of founding NeXT (as an aside, I worked at one of the last companies to actively use NeXTStep and OpenStep). There is a point in the movie where he compares Apple to IBM and other stalwarts of the industry and what made Apple able to compete and eventually dominate. IBM went to find the best computer programmers/coders, the best computer scientists, the best computer engineers. He made sure his teams included musicians, artists, biologists that were interested in computers. Not surprisingly, that is where the first apple stronghold. I remember in the early 90's...almost every computer was a Mac...we used them for song analysis, genetics, modelling....anything creative.

How to tell if someone is passionate: Read their cover letter, see what they have done outside school, interview them.

The idea of program A leading to Job B is a very narrow mindset. I wouldn't want or expect a new grad to tell me that they have 100% figured out their path. I wouldn't believe them; otherwise, they haven't taken the opportunity to explore and look for new experiences.
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no degree guarantee success these days, but from what i hear, arts degree have lower return on investment, take what you will since people tend to get offended and go point out examples of very successful people. remember a degree takes up 1 line on your resume.
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nalababe wrote:
Nov 20th, 2017 6:14 pm
I would take the candidate that I believed had something special...regardless of studies.

There is a great video on Netflix (hopefully still there). It is of Steve Jobs when he was at the point of founding NeXT (as an aside, I worked at one of the last companies to actively use NeXTStep and OpenStep). There is a point in the movie where he compares Apple to IBM and other stalwarts of the industry and what made Apple able to compete and eventually dominate. IBM went to find the best computer programmers/coders, the best computer scientists, the best computer engineers. He made sure his teams included musicians, artists, biologists that were interested in computers. Not surprisingly, that is where the first apple stronghold. I remember in the early 90's...almost every computer was a Mac...we used them for song analysis, genetics, modelling....anything creative.

How to tell if someone is passionate: Read their cover letter, see what they have done outside school, interview them.

The idea of program A leading to Job B is a very narrow mindset. I wouldn't want or expect a new grad to tell me that they have 100% figured out their path. I wouldn't believe them; otherwise, they haven't taken the opportunity to explore and look for new experiences.
You aren't hiring a manager....or a visionary CEO to totally revamp your organization. Unless the position you are hiring for is a prestigious role, I don't think you should expect too much to begin with. At the end of the day, why study something totally unrelated to what you want to do in the future? It's at least 4 years of your time and 40k debt.

"I would take the candidate that I believed had something special...regardless of studies'

Many university graduates are only aiming for some admin jobs when they have just graduated, how special do you think they need to be to perform mundane tasks on a daily basis?

One last thing "My field of study was Biology (Genetics). " From my point of view, a STEM graduate such as yourself trying to make a career move into marketing looks a lot better than a history graduate trying to break into marketing. Just like how many designated professional can do what an admin clerk can do, but not every admin clerk can do what designated professionals can do.
Last edited by blitzforce on Nov 20th, 2017 6:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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divx wrote:
Nov 20th, 2017 6:39 pm
no degree guarantee success these days, but from what i hear, arts degree have lower return on investment, take what you will since people tend to get offended and go point out examples of very successful people. remember a degree takes up 1 line on your resume.
The more people go into these programs, the better it will be for many of the RFD members....less competitions. Just let these people battle it out on who's arts degree will be able to propel them to an entry-level role with growth potential by cramming as much extracurricular activities as possible.

Based on my experience, it's degree + experience + personality/passion. You can't just have one but not the others considering employers get hundreds of resumes for any decent positions.
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blitzforce wrote:
Nov 20th, 2017 6:44 pm
The more people go into these programs, the better it will be for many of the RFD members....less competitions. Just let these people battle it out on who's arts degree will be able to propel them to an entry-level role with growth potential by cramming as much extracurricular activities as possible.

Based on my experience, it's degree + experience + personality/passion. You can't just have one but not the others considering employers get hundreds of resumes for any decent positions.
it's all based on exp these days, even STEM is useless with no exp
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divx wrote:
Nov 20th, 2017 6:48 pm
it's all based on exp these days, even STEM is useless with no exp
I agree. However, if you have a STEM student and an arts student both trying to apply for an unrelated job and both don't have experience. Who would you rather pick if both at just as passionate. All the examples provided by others to justify arts degrees are "if they have the passion", I mean yes, if the STEM student doesn't give a crap during the interview, then my pick would be the arts graduate.
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blitzforce wrote:
Nov 20th, 2017 6:52 pm
I agree. However, if you have a STEM student and an arts student both trying to apply for an unrelated job and both don't have experience. Who would you rather pick if both at just as passionate. All the examples provided by others to justify arts degrees are "if they have the passion", I mean yes, if the STEM student doesn't give a crap during the interview, then my pick would be the arts graduate.
depends on the job, if it's general admin position i don't think it will matter, if you need someone to work with numbers then obviously STEM.
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divx wrote:
Nov 20th, 2017 6:55 pm
depends on the job, if it's general admin position i don't think it will matter, if you need someone to work with numbers then obviously STEM.
Its like if you have the opportunity to go to an ivey league school, why would you pick a regular university if all else are equal.
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blitzforce wrote:
Nov 20th, 2017 6:40 pm
You aren't hiring a manager....or a visionary CEO to totally revamp your organization. Unless the position you are hiring for is a prestigious role, I don't think you should expect too much to begin with. At the end of the day, why study something totally unrelated to what you want to do in the future? It's at least 4 years of your time and 40k debt.

"I would take the candidate that I believed had something special...regardless of studies'

Many university graduates are only aiming for some admin jobs when they have just graduated, how special do you think they need to be to perform mundane tasks on a daily basis?

One last thing "My field of study was Biology (Genetics). " From my point of view, a STEM graduate such as yourself trying to make a career move into marketing looks a lot better than a history graduate trying to break into marketing. Just like how many designated professional can do what an admin clerk can do, but not every admin clerk can do what designated professionals can do.

you don't seem to understand how companies work. All employees are continuously evaluated. Strengths are identified. Weaknesses are identified. We look at an individual's desire and their motivation. When we hire, even for what you perceive as an admin job, I am often looking at where I see them in 12 -24 months...I would pretty much start a development plan by the end of their first year.

Again, I am hiring for someone with creativity which I believe is more nature than nurture. I want to see how the student/recent grad has shown that creativity. How they work with people. How they overcome challenges. What you learn in school can be taught on the job...plus, unlike classes or cases, there is real pressure, real stress...real outcomes.

BTW. I don't need to hire managers. I want someone who shows leadership. A leader is far more valuable than managers.

It isn't my background in genetics that makes me good at what I do...or why I have been successful. My team: 1) Arts/Languages, 2) Commerce, 3) Science...each brought something different to the team. As for coop students. Every one I have ranked I have ranked from my 30 minute interview. I have never once asked about their classes, their grades (I don't even look at the transcript page), I rank them on how they communicate, can they articulate their passions, how they will grade success at the end of the term...and I make a note if after the 30 minutes we were engaged the entire time.
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divx wrote:
Nov 20th, 2017 6:55 pm
depends on the job, if it's general admin position i don't think it will matter, if you need someone to work with numbers then obviously STEM.
The most impressive analyst/number cruncher/CRM leaders I have ever come across
was actually an OCAD graduate. Not only did she understand numbers, she could, more importantly, communicate them so that they were impactful.
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nalababe wrote:
Nov 20th, 2017 8:09 pm
The most impressive analyst/number cruncher/CRM leaders I have ever come across
was actually an OCAD graduate. Not only did she understand numbers, she could, more importantly, communicate them so that they were impactful.
Next you'll tell people to not go to Ivey league universities if given the opportunity but opt for lower-tier schools...

Nobody said arts students can't make it big, but generally speaking they don't. It's a fact that you can't deny.

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