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Deal Expert
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Aug 22, 2003
15540 posts
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Niagara Falls
RCGA wrote: You guys realize the whole thing was made out of ugly old MDF, right? It was all nailed and glued together. There's no saving that. Not to mention the bottom cabinets were short (32" I believe)
Sorry, now I just think you really don't know what you are doing. There wouldn't have been MDF in 1960's cabinets. And carcasses can be raised quite easily. I just think you are going to be uber shocked ( :eek: ) when you actually price out cabinetry. I sincerely hope you know how to properly build a tile countertop as well as there are very specific things that are required... Your reno list and budget really aren't realistic, even with DIY'ing...
Thinking seriously about the 4 S's...Sun, Sand, Surf and ... Booked for Sept in Mexico and booked Samana DR for Jan!
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Oct 22, 2007
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Mississauga
CSK'sMom wrote: I sincerely hope you know how to properly build a tile countertop as well as there are very specific things that are required.
I didn't see any mention of a tile countertop, please don't tell me it going to have grout. I was in the comercial kitchen industry for about 14 years and grout is not very sanitary for a kitchen countertop, even if it's epoxy grout or sealed.
Deal Addict
Sep 2, 2006
2637 posts
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CANADA
+ 1. Update your house with features people will like (if your goal is to get the most money out of your investment once comes the time to sell it). I would not be interested in a tile countertop for example, but this is just my opinion. Yes, it is cheaper than granite...but it will not have the same impact.

You have to appeal to the mass. It is better to split the project in little bites and do it right.

You can only stretch 20k so far. You did mention "custom cabinets". The kitchen will probably eat your budget. The 20k will only be a facelift...
Deal Expert
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Aug 22, 2003
15540 posts
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Niagara Falls
Maymybonneliveforever wrote: I didn't see any mention of a tile countertop, please don't tell me it going to have grout. I was in the comercial kitchen industry for about 14 years and grout is not very sanitary for a kitchen countertop, even if it's epoxy grout or sealed.
Check out the now extensive list in the OP May. ;)
Thinking seriously about the 4 S's...Sun, Sand, Surf and ... Booked for Sept in Mexico and booked Samana DR for Jan!
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Jan 27, 2007
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T.
Good luck with everything, OP.

Couple of points:

I don't think your budget is realistic. A kitchen on its own can cost $20,000 - cheap out on the materials and potential buyers will know.

I'm assuming you have a mortgage on the property? You are throwing away money on every payment between the time you start renos and the time you sell.

Looking forward to the updates.
[QUOTE]I know you are, but what am I.... ;) [/QUOTE]
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Nov 2, 2012
2778 posts
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Hamilton
Ambitious project - looking forward to seeing the finished pics.
Since you're doing a lot of the work yourself, you should see a nice return on your investment.
(i.e. $20,000 in materials - but the labour cost would also be extensive - which can justify the higher asking price).

One note: I would not recommend the granite tiles for the kitchen countertop.
Yes, it is cheaper. But I don't know many people who like the look of it or want to deal with cleaning grout lines on a countertop.

If you want to save money on the countertop, I would just get a nice laminate then. Or shop around
and see if you can get a deal on granite (sometimes shops have overstock in a particular colour and they
will give you a really great deal). But honestly, I wouldn't do the granite tiles.

Best of luck with your project!
Sr. Member
Dec 6, 2006
674 posts
33 upvotes
Good luck with the project. I am sure it will be a very interesting experience.

Regarding the costs, did you do an itemized break down of your projected material costs? I am thinking that you may have to do some hard decisions if your budget is set. Just for the basic ceiling reno; Gypse, plaster, tape, screws and paint for your ceiling (not even including paint for walls) will likely be eating close to 10-15% of your budget, on the low side.

I recently did renos and I was flabbergaster by how quick the little expenses add up. I never knew baseboards and door mouldings were so expensive. For a small 12x6 storage room, baseboards and door frames cost us more than any other single material we used to build the room from the ground up, everything included. And we picked some of the least expensive ones too.
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Nov 2, 2012
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Hamilton
Just to reiterate - think twice before doing the granite tile countertop.

Maybe do a quick poll to see how many people like it first (if you care about resale value at all).

If I was looking at a house that had granite tile - I would definitely think that I would need to redo
the countertop (and deduct that amount from the asking price).

I'm not a fussy person (remember - I'm the poster who is fine with two bathrooms...I think more than
that is just silly). But tiled countertop would be such a nightmare to clean. I would actually pick laminate
over granite tile.

Just some friendly advice before you get started. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe people here will have different
opinions. But I would do a quick poll just to get a broad perspective.
Deal Expert
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Aug 22, 2003
15540 posts
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Niagara Falls
I actually intentionally put a granite tile countertop in. It was done by a pro though with over 25 yrs experience. ;) My grout lines are 1/16 of an inch, as should be on all stone products. Mine is absolute black granite with black grout. I have all the advantages of granite in a kitchen that isn't my dream kitchen. There was no way I'd pay for a slab for a kitchen that was not my ultimate dream kitchen. Ultimately we want to completely flip our kitchen to the other side of the room with a completely different layout. Tile countertops have been around for ever and will continue to... Hubby gets several calls a year to build them. ;)
Thinking seriously about the 4 S's...Sun, Sand, Surf and ... Booked for Sept in Mexico and booked Samana DR for Jan!
Deal Expert
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Mar 23, 2009
22529 posts
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Toronto
Speaking of kitchens, we were originally quoted $17000 for cabinets and granite for a small kitchen. I eventually ended up getting it for about $14000 from others, for $11000 for the cabinets and $3000 for the granite.

However, if you buy the pre-made cheap cabinets from big box stores, you could do the cabinets for a few thousand. Not sure I'd want tiled counters though. Maybe for a basement, but definitely not for the main kitchen. A bit ghetto by 2013 standards IMO. You could get better quality tile granite done by a 3rd party, but then you're spending hundreds on labour costs anyway. I could have gotten the slab granite for significantly cheaper than what I paid, but that was for granite colours I didn't like so much, and with edging styles I didn't want... but it'd still be way better for resale than granite tile.

My point? The same as before: $20000 seems very optimistic, for a whole house including kitchen.
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Oct 22, 2007
6110 posts
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Mississauga
CSK'sMom wrote: Check out the now extensive list in the OP May. ;)
Thanks CSK's Mom, I now have a better understanding.

If I may coment,

I do believe you can do everything for close to $20,000.00 if:

You get the all hardwood flooring for free.
You get the appliances for free or next to nothing.
You go with tile countertop with grout.
Use all low end material.

In the end, if you plan of flipping the house, it will give the illusion that you've used higher end products except with it comes to the kitchen countertop. If you're going to stay in the home, than I would increase your budget (as I don't believe you can get good to higher quality material within your budget) and go with better quality products and not be as concerned about resale value.

In order to meet your budget, your molding and kitchen cabinets will have to be mdf, or partical board core with rtf/thermofoil or lower quality and most likely not custom made. The other option is to buy used or at an auction in which case you don't really have much choice in your selection.
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Oct 6, 2010
15881 posts
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Toronto
I've never seen 20K dumped into a house to bring the value up that much. Anywhere from Lab City/St. John's/CBS/Toronto. GL, but I don't think it's possible. Unless you are hoping that the area increases with value to help you reach your projected goal.
DIY difficulty scale:
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Deal Expert
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Aug 22, 2003
15540 posts
981 upvotes
Niagara Falls
Maymybonneliveforever wrote: Thanks CSK's Mom, I now have a better understanding.

If I may coment,

I do believe you can do everything for close to $20,000.00 if:

You get the all hardwood flooring for free.
You get the appliances for free or next to nothing.
You go with tile countertop with grout.
Use all low end material.

In the end, if you plan of flipping the house, it will give the illusion that you've used higher end products except with it comes to the kitchen countertop. If you're going to stay in the home, than I would increase your budget (as I don't believe you can get good to higher quality material within your budget) and go with better quality products and not be as concerned about resale value.

In order to meet your budget, your molding and kitchen cabinets will have to be mdf, or partical board core with rtf/thermofoil or lower quality and most likely not custom made. The other option is to buy used or at an auction in which case you don't really have much choice in your selection.
You really think so May, even with removing the 2 walls in the kitchen. That is a permit project that is going to require a structural engineer to spec it and do the calculations if it's possible....
Thinking seriously about the 4 S's...Sun, Sand, Surf and ... Booked for Sept in Mexico and booked Samana DR for Jan!
Sr. Member
Dec 6, 2006
674 posts
33 upvotes
CSK'sMom wrote: You really think so May, even with removing the 2 walls in the kitchen. That is a permit project that is going to require a structural engineer to spec it and do the calculations if it's possible....
Only if they are load bearing walls. If they aren't, this can likely be done pretty cheaply.
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Oct 22, 2007
6110 posts
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Mississauga
CSK'sMom wrote: You really think so May, even with removing the 2 walls in the kitchen. That is a permit project that is going to require a structural engineer to spec it and do the calculations if it's possible....
Just to be clear CSK"sMoM, I never said there were going to be any permits pulled or the job was going to be done as per code. All I'm implying is the job can be done for the quoted $20,000.00 material list cost considered several items will be free, but I'd be questioning both quality material as well as.........well, you know. As for taking down walls, it's easy to tell if it's load bearing.

Either way, I don't want to take away from this thread so I'll be a lurker.
Banned
May 12, 2004
9756 posts
4136 upvotes
Ottawa
RCGA wrote: You guys realize the whole thing was made out of ugly old MDF, right? It was all nailed and glued together. There's no saving that. Not to mention the bottom cabinets were short (32" I believe)
Don't mind the negative nellies. Those counters aren't 36" (basing my estimate on the height of the stove and fridge) with the risers being a few inches at most. People are taller than they were in the 60's and kitchen standards have changed. Bumping the bottoms to 36 would have giving you much less than 18" in food prep height. Very easy to manage someone's project on the internet behind your keyboard.

You've got a nice canvas to work with. Good luck and keep us posted. If anyone says you don't know what you're doing they've probably never done it themselves.
CSK'sMom wrote: Sorry, now I just think you really don't know what you are doing. There wouldn't have been MDF in 1960's cabinets. And carcasses can be raised quite easily. I just think you are going to be uber shocked ( :eek: ) when you actually price out cabinetry. I sincerely hope you know how to properly build a tile countertop as well as there are very specific things that are required... Your reno list and budget really aren't realistic, even with DIY'ing...
..and where does he recoup space for the 18"? Chainsaw the tops?
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Feb 16, 2013
343 posts
13 upvotes
I built my own carcass with 2x4's, plywood wonderboard etc. I used high gloss porcelain tiles 1x2' , very easy to clean. Grout is not a problem, i pushed the tiles right together then used a poly caulking. Better to build your carcass if you going with the tiles, buy the tiles first and check the size. Porcelain is the way to go, you can find 2x2' tile as well, far better than plastic. Granite and natural stone will stain easily better to use on a desk or table.
Deal Expert
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Jul 5, 2004
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CSK'sMom wrote: I actually intentionally put a granite tile countertop in. It was done by a pro though with over 25 yrs experience. ;) My grout lines are 1/16 of an inch, as should be on all stone products. Mine is absolute black granite with black grout. I have all the advantages of granite in a kitchen that isn't my dream kitchen. There was no way I'd pay for a slab for a kitchen that was not my ultimate dream kitchen. Ultimately we want to completely flip our kitchen to the other side of the room with a completely different layout. Tile countertops have been around for ever and will continue to... Hubby gets several calls a year to build them. ;)
Sounds nice. I'd love to see a picture if you feel like sharing. I'm a big fan of black granite. Curious how it ties in with the rest of the kitchen. My kitchen currently has granite, and it's nice, but it's not a colour I care much for. Obviously I can't justify ripping out a perfectly good granite counter just to change the colour (nor would the GF ever let that fly), but when I purchase my next house, I may go for a bit of a fixer upper so I can justify the cost of doing things exactly how I want it, rather than renovating an already new house that doesn't need renovating. Black granite has definitely been on my mind.
Deal Expert
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Jul 5, 2004
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koffey wrote: I've never seen 20K dumped into a house to bring the value up that much. Anywhere from Lab City/St. John's/CBS/Toronto. GL, but I don't think it's possible. Unless you are hoping that the area increases with value to help you reach your projected goal.
A family member of mine recently bought a house for cheap, dumped around $20,000 into it (if not less) and sold it for $80,000 more than she paid for it. All work was done for free by another family member. It's definitely possible, it just depends on how good of a deal you get the house for and how well you can stretch a budget. Like others have said in this thread, that house just needed a makeover, not a complete rebuild. A face lift can be pretty deceiving and can make an old, crappy house feel like it's new again.

New cabinets are going to cost a fortune though and I don't see how this will all be done with only $20,000.
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Dec 10, 2008
5211 posts
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Cabinets are a DIY. The big expense with them are the doors at ~$30 a door. I believe we're expecting them to cost $1000 all said and done.

Add a tiled granite counter top, a floor, and a sink and it's all bit done.
Let's hug it out

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