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[Future Shop] HOT? FS: Kingston 2GB DDR2 Laptop or Desktop Memory - $14.99

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  • May 25th, 2010 2:20 pm
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May 14, 2008
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Ghetto_Child wrote:
May 21st, 2010 11:42 pm
Well the module I posted about is So-DIMM laptop ram. I was just posting to help let people know they don't really need to buy faster ram if they have this model.
Ah, that could make a difference. You can't usually increase the FSB on a laptop, nor would you normally want to, so faster-rated ram could be a good thing there.

I may have that type of ram in my own laptop. Do you have the link to the program you mentioned?
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http://forum.notebookreview.com/acer/41 ... ost5333093 I followed these directions except for one thing. I manually used the "Editor" button to change the timing tables my self so that I could preserve the serial# and any other original SPD info not related to speed. The instructions at that link will have you replace all your original SPD info with a dump from a completely different module. So if you follow the links instructions entirely you'll end up with a clone of someone else's module right down to identical serial#.

The one concern I'm having with my method is there are several timing details that the program does not give easy access to:

Code: Select all

Address and CMD Setup Time Before Clock (tIS):	0.20 ns
Address and CMD Hold Time After Clock (tIH):	0.27 ns
Data Input Setup Time Before Strobe (tDS):		0.10 ns
Data Input Hold Time After Strobe (tDH):		0.17 ns
Max skew between DQS and all DQ signals (tDQSQ):	0.24 ns
Max Read Data Hold Skew Factor (tQHS):		0.34 ns
All the manufacturer stock DDR2-800 I've looked at have these timings 1 step faster like 0.34ns is 0.30ns on 800MHz and 0.20ns is 0.17ns and 0.27ns is 0.25ns on 800MHz
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Ali proudly stood up…
Ghetto_Child wrote:
May 22nd, 2010 4:58 am
http://forum.notebookreview.com/acer/41 ... ost5333093 I followed these directions except for one thing. I manually used the "Editor" button to change the timing tables my self so that I could preserve the serial# and any other original SPD info not related to speed. The instructions at that link will have you replace all your original SPD info with a dump from a completely different module. So if you follow the links instructions entirely you'll end up with a clone of someone else's module right down to identical serial#.

The one concern I'm having with my method is there are several timing details that the program does not give easy access to:

Code: Select all

Address and CMD Setup Time Before Clock (tIS):	0.20 ns
Address and CMD Hold Time After Clock (tIH):	0.27 ns
Data Input Setup Time Before Strobe (tDS):		0.10 ns
Data Input Hold Time After Strobe (tDH):		0.17 ns
Max skew between DQS and all DQ signals (tDQSQ):	0.24 ns
Max Read Data Hold Skew Factor (tQHS):		0.34 ns
All the manufacturer stock DDR2-800 I've looked at have these timings 1 step faster like 0.34ns is 0.30ns on 800MHz and 0.20ns is 0.17ns and 0.27ns is 0.25ns on 800MHz
So you need to have access to a DDR2 800MHz SODIMM and copy it's specs over to your 667MHz module? :?: I'm not sure I can get access to an 800MHz module short of buying one then returning it, so I don't think I'll be bothering doing this. I only have a Celeron CPU in my laptop so I'm not really worried about speeding it up anyway. My desktops are where I try to crank out extra speed.

I'm not sure I like the sound of this program anyway. It sounds like something that an unscrupulous supplier could use to fool customers into thinking they were buying better (800MHz) ram than they actually were (667MHz or slower).

Also, I notice it is called Thaiphoon, as in Thailand, a known hotspot for virus creators. I think I'm going to steer well clear, at least until I find I have a real need for such a utility. Too many potential risks for no obvious gain for me.

Good luck with your efforts though. Post again here if you find it improves your system's performance much. (Or otherwise).
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actually the program is very good. Yes it can be used to fool a customer but if the seller uses the program right the RAM will become what they say without any problems like a permanent overclock. SPD is ALWAYS a software crippling device anyway. This method is exactly how RAM module manufacturers program the SPD. DRAM is always faster than the rate it is being sold at that's why people can overclock it. SPD is only telling the chipset how many cycles must pass before the DRAM chip is ready for the next transaction state. SPD records this table for 3 speeds but it's up to the manufacturer of the module to chose which 3 speeds they want to write tables for. The modules can be run at any speed the manufacturer wants as long as the wait states are represented correctly.

For example DDR2 commonly must wait 15ns each for CAS/CL and RCD and RP and 45ns for RAS. You can find this true for modules in all speed categories. Now if you run the module at DDR2-667 (333MHz cycles) then 1 cycle is 3ns so you tell the chipset to wait 5 cycles for CAS/CL, RCD, RP (5x2.5=15ns) and 15 cycles for RAS (15x3=45ns). If you take that exact same module and run it at DDR2-533 (266MHz) 3.75ns/cycle then you need 4 cycles x 3.75ns = 15ns for CAS/CL, RCD, RP and 12 cycles for RAS. Now taking that same module and running it at DDR2-800 (400MHz) is 2.5ns per cycle and requires 6 cycles for CAS/CL, RCD, RP and 18 cycles for RAS.

If you try to use a smaller number of cycles with the same module then you need to be sure that the black DRAM chips actually need less than 15ns for CAS/CL, RCD, RP, and less than 45ns for RAS. If it does then it means you actually have much faster DRAM chips. If you try to raise the speed of the module to say DDR2-1066 (533MHz) 1.875ns per cycle then you need to be sure your chipset can use numbers as high as 8 or 8.5 ticks for CAS/CL, RCD, RP and 24 or 24.5 ticks for RAS.

If you raise the speed you need to raise the wait clock ticks accordingly so that the wait period in ns is not beyond what the DRAM chip can handle. Just to be clear DRAM chip is the black chips on the green module PCB.

You can get the SPD dump of hundreds of SDR, DDR, and DDR2 modules through Thaiphoon Burner. It has a database downloader organized by type, speed, manufacturer, and module part#. I also found zip files of huge SPD collections at the same location where you download Thaiphoon Burner from.

A great many users from notebookreview.com forum have used it and it works perfect I'm just trying to find a way to increase the speed without cloning a completely different module. By editing the timing tables manually.

actually the program is very good. Yes it can be used to fool a customer but if the seller uses the program right the RAM will become what they say without any problems like a permanent overclock. SPD is ALWAYS a software crippling device anyway. This method is exactly how RAM module manufacturers program the SPD. DRAM is always faster than the rate it is being sold at that's why people can overclock it. SPD is only telling the chipset how many cycles must pass before the DRAM chip is ready for the next transaction state. SPD records this table for 3 speeds but it's up to the manufacturer of the module to chose which 3 speeds they want to write tables for. The modules can be run at any speed the manufacturer wants as long as the wait states are represented correctly.

For example DDR2 commonly must wait 15ns each for CAS/CL and RCD and RP and 45ns for RAS. You can find this true for modules in all speed categories. Now if you run the module at DDR2-667 (333MHz cycles) then 1 cycle is 3ns so you tell the chipset to wait 5 cycles for CAS/CL, RCD, RP (5x2.5=15ns) and 15 cycles for RAS (15x3=45ns). If you take that exact same module and run it at DDR2-533 (266MHz) 3.75ns/cycle then you need 4 cycles x 3.75ns = 15ns for CAS/CL, RCD, RP and 12 cycles for RAS. Now taking that same module and running it at DDR2-800 (400MHz) is 2.5ns per cycle and requires 6 cycles for CAS/CL, RCD, RP and 18 cycles for RAS.

If you try to use a smaller number of cycles with the same module then you need to be sure that the black DRAM chips actually need less than 15ns for CAS/CL, RCD, RP, and less than 45ns for RAS. If it does then it means you actually have much faster DRAM chips. If you try to raise the speed of the module to say DDR2-1066 (533MHz) 1.875ns per cycle then you need to be sure your chipset can use numbers as high as 8 or 8.5 ticks for CAS/CL, RCD, RP and 24 or 24.5 ticks for RAS.

If you raise the speed you need to raise the wait clock ticks accordingly so that the wait period in ns is not beyond what the DRAM chip can handle. Just to be clear DRAM chip is the black chips on the green module PCB.

You can get the SPD dump of hundreds of SDR, DDR, and DDR2 modules through Thaiphoon Burner. It has a database downloader organized by type, speed, manufacturer, and module part#. I also found zip files of huge SPD collections at the same location where you download Thaiphoon Burner from.

A great many users from notebookreview.com forum have used it and it works perfect I'm just trying to find a way to increase the speed without cloning a completely different module. By editing the timing tables manually.

EDIT May 23rd 8:25PM EST:
I may have just found the answer. Those remaining SPD values are stored in Hex addresses 20h-23h, 2Ch, and 2Dh. Thaiphoon Burner v6.8.1.0 lets you edit the Hexa-Decimal SPD dump in the Hex editor and when you click on each value in the layout it displays the Hex address, value, and the corresponding detail full name as displayed in the Report Browser. I'll try editing these values later to see this works. A screenshot of the new version
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SUCCESS :twisted: :cool: :D I got my 2 different laptop modules to overclock my way by simply editing the timing tables without cloning another module. The last factor that was limiting my modules to 667MHz was the SDRAM Access Time from Clock (tAC) Hex address 0Ah. It was originally set to 45 (0.45 ns) and as soon as I changed it to value 40 (0.40 ns) my laptop booted up stating 800MHz. You have to use the Hex editor Thaiphoon Burner to change that value; along with the 6 other timing values I mentioned in a previous post I thought were inaccessible.

Code: Select all

[ EVEREST Ultimate Edition Report ]
    Version		EVEREST v5.50.2100
    Benchmark Module	2.5.292.0
    Homepage		http://www.lavalys.com/
    Report Type		Report Wizard [ TRIAL VERSION ]
    Computer		LAPTOP
    Generator
    Operating System	Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium 6.0.6002 (Vista RTM)
    
[ Overclock ]
    CPU Properties:
      CPU Type		Mobile Intel Core 2 Solo SU3500
      CPU Alias		Penryn-3M
      CPU Stepping		R0
      Engineering Sample	No
      CPUID CPU Name	Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Solo CPU U3500 @ 1.40GHz
      CPUID Revision	0001067Ah
      CPU VID		0.9125 V

    CPU Speed:
      CPU Clock		1396.5 MHz  (original: [ TRIAL VERSION ] MHz)
      CPU Multiplier		7x
      CPU FSB		199.5 MHz  (original: 200 MHz)
      Memory Bus		399.0 MHz
      DRAM:FSB Ratio	12:6

    CPU Cache:
      L1 Code Cache	32 KB
      L1 Data Cache		[ TRIAL VERSION ]
      L2 Cache		3 MB  (On-Die, ECC, ASC, Full-Speed)

    Motherboard Properties:
      Motherboard ID	<DMI>
      Motherboard Name	Acer Aspire 1410

    Chipset Properties:
      Motherboard Chipset	Intel Cantiga GS45
      Memory Timings	6-6-6-18  (CL-RCD-RP-RAS)
      DIMM1: Samsung M4 70T5663EH3-CE6	2 GB DDR2-800 DDR2 SDRAM  (6-6-6-18 @ 400 MHz)  (5-5-5-15 @ 333 MHz)  (4-4-4-12 @ 266 MHz)
      DIMM3: Kingston 99U5295-011.A00LF	[ TRIAL VERSION ]

    BIOS Properties:
      System BIOS Date	09/24/09
      Video BIOS Date	05/10/09
      DMI BIOS Version	v1.3303

    Graphics Processor Properties:
      Video Adapter		Intel GL40/GM45/GM47/GS45 Chipset - Graphics Controller 0 [B-3]
      GPU Code Name	Cantiga-GM  (Integrated 8086 / 2A42, Rev 07)
      GPU Clock		320 MHz


[ Sensor ]
    Sensor Properties:
      Sensor Type	CPU, ACPI

    Temperatures:
      CPU		47 °C  (117 °F)
      CPU Diode	47 °C  (117 °F)

    Voltage Values:
      CPU Core	0.91 V


[ Motherboard ]
    Motherboard Properties:
      Motherboard ID	<DMI>
      Motherboard Name	Acer Aspire 1410

    Front Side Bus Properties:
      Bus Type		Intel AGTL+
      Bus Width		64-bit
      Real Clock		200 MHz (QDR)
      Effective Clock	800 MHz
      Bandwidth		6400 MB/s

    Memory Bus Properties:
      Bus Type		Dual DDR2 SDRAM
      Bus Width		128-bit
      DRAM:FSB Ratio	12:6
      Real Clock		400 MHz (DDR)
      Effective Clock	800 MHz
      
[ SPD ]
  [ DIMM1: Samsung M4 70T5663EH3-CE6 ]

    Memory Module Properties:
      Module Name		Samsung M4 70T5663EH3-CE6
      Serial Number
      Manufacture Date	Week 13 / 2009
      Module Size		2 GB (2 ranks, 8 banks)
      Module Type		SO-DIMM
      Memory Type		DDR2 SDRAM
      Memory Speed		DDR2-800 (400 MHz)
      Module Width		64 bit
      Module Voltage	SSTL 1.8
      Error Detection Method	None
      Refresh Rate		Reduced (7.8 us), Self-Refresh

    Memory Timings:
      @ 400 MHz		6-6-6-18  (CL-RCD-RP-RAS) / 24-51-3-6-3-3  (RC-RFC-RRD-WR-WTR-RTP)
      @ 333 MHz		5-5-5-15  (CL-RCD-RP-RAS) / 20-43-3-5-3-3  (RC-RFC-RRD-WR-WTR-RTP)
      @ 266 MHz		4-4-4-12  (CL-RCD-RP-RAS) / 16-34-2-4-2-2  (RC-RFC-RRD-WR-WTR-RTP)

    Memory Module Manufacturer:
      Company Name	Samsung
      
  [ DIMM3: [ TRIAL VERSION ] ]

    Memory Module Properties:
      Module Name		[ TRIAL VERSION ]
      Serial Number
      Manufacture Date	Week 34 / 2008
      Module Size		2 GB (2 ranks, 8 banks)
      Module Type		[ TRIAL VERSION ]
      Memory Type		DDR2 SDRAM
      Memory Speed		DDR2-800 (400 MHz)
      Module Width		64 bit
      Module Voltage	SSTL 1.8
      Error Detection Method	None
      Refresh Rate	Reduced (7.8 us), Self-Refresh

    Memory Timings:
      @ 400 MHz	6-6-6-18  (CL-RCD-RP-RAS) / 24-51-3-6-3-3  (RC-RFC-RRD-WR-WTR-RTP)
      @ 333 MHz	5-5-5-15  (CL-RCD-RP-RAS) / 20-43-3-5-3-3  (RC-RFC-RRD-WR-WTR-RTP)
      @ 266 MHz	4-4-4-12  (CL-RCD-RP-RAS) / 16-34-2-4-2-2  (RC-RFC-RRD-WR-WTR-RTP)

    Memory Module Manufacturer:
      Company Name	Kingston Technology Company, Inc.
      

[ Chipset ]
  [ North Bridge: Intel Cantiga GS45 ]

    North Bridge Properties:
      North Bridge			Intel Cantiga GS45
      Supported FSB Speeds		FSB533, FSB667, FSB800, FSB1066
      Supported Memory Types	DDR2-667 SDRAM, DDR2-800 SDRAM, DDR3-667 SDRAM, DDR3-800 SDRAM, DDR3-1066 SDRAM
      Maximum Memory Amount	8 GB
      Revision / Stepping		07 / B3
      Package Type			1363 Pin FC-BGA
      Package Size			2.7 cm x 2.5 cm
      Core Voltage			1.05 V
      In-Order Queue Depth		12

    Memory Controller:
      Type		Dual Channel  (128-bit)
      Active Mode	Dual Channel  (128-bit)

    Memory Timings:
      CAS Latency (CL)			6T
      RAS To CAS Delay (tRCD)		6T
      RAS Precharge (tRP)			6T
      RAS Active Time (tRAS)			18T
      Row Refresh Cycle Time (tRFC)		51T
      RAS To RAS Delay (tRRD)		3T
      Read To Precharge Delay (tRTP)		5T
      Four Activate Window Delay (tFAW)	15T
      Write CAS Latency (tWCL)		5T
      Refresh Period (tREF)			7.8 us

    Error Correction:
      ECC			Not Supported
      ChipKill ECC		Not Supported
      RAID			Not Supported
      ECC Scrubbing		Not Supported

    Memory Slots:
      DRAM Slot #1	2 GB  (DDR2-800 DDR2 SDRAM)
      DRAM Slot #2	2 GB  (DDR2-800 DDR2 SDRAM)
Turns out everything is editable via the Hex editor in both Thaiphoon Burner versions; the difference is the older version requires pressing the enter key to apply the changed value. If you you move to another address without pressing enter in the old version the original value will return and no changes will take place. Also editing via the Hex editor updates the modified Hex addresses immediately to the SPD on the RAM module, in both versions, without needing to do a full write of the entire SPD. So don't reboot or press enter until you're sure you want to try your new values.

After I stress test this RAM for stability I'll try tweaking those other 6 timing values and see if I can boost performance. So far from making tAC=0.45ns down to 0.40ns I got a 200MB/s boost in the Read benchmark. I bought 2 of these RMN2-667/2G 99U5295-011.A00LF modules and for some reason each module has different part numbers on the black DRAM chips but the same part number for the green PCB module & sticker label. Do you guys believe the Windows Memory Diagnostic in the Windows Recovery Environment is sufficient for stress testing or should I use Prime95?
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Good thing I stocked up on this RAM and also when Dell had the laptop RAMs for $15 also... Nowadays it cost almost $100 to get 4GBs of Laptop/Desktop RAMs... why did prices go up?
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prices went up because DDR3 came out, I think DDR3 consumes half the power and I believe 50% higher data rate. Also I discovered last night on my Acer Aspire 1410 with SU3500 cpu that when I go down to 1 ram dimm/module/stick my battery life doubles vs 2 of the same size dimm/modules/sticks. So to have dual channel 128-bit transfers you sacrifice half the battery life. Most people on laptops won't miss the dual channel so keeping to 1 DIMM is well worth the 11-13hrs on a 4400mAH battery.
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