Green / Eco-Friendly

How many KWh do you use in a day?

  • Last Updated:
  • Nov 19th, 2017 7:35 pm
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Jr. Member
May 10, 2009
177 posts
9 upvotes
Richmond Hill
Markerman wrote:
Mar 21st, 2014 12:08 pm
i recently moved into a new home with enbridge as our provider.

how do i adjust their estimated pricing every other month?

our real pricing for feb is less than 50% of our estimated current month (march)
I believe you can call them and state that you want be billed by the actual usage instead of the estimated usage.
Jr. Member
May 10, 2009
177 posts
9 upvotes
Richmond Hill
don242 wrote:
Mar 20th, 2014 6:12 pm
You don't think you should pay the actual cost of the electricity you use? All those charges (delivery, regulatory, etc.) are part of the cost of getting electricity to your home. Just because they break it up to show you how the cost is determined, doesn't mean it is not the actual cost of electricity.

As for the debt retirement cost, I agree, it is annoying. However, you enjoyed cheaper electricity in the past and now we all pay the price for that. If they had been charging actual costs all along, you wouldn't be paying it now. Supposedly this charge should be ending in another couple of years.

If you really have a problem with the costs, then lower your monthly usage. You knew going in there would be on-going costs to these things, it is a cost of ownership. I am not saying we shouldn't be aware of rising electricity costs, but you are using 3.5x more than we use in our peaks months, so you have obviously made choices to run certain things which are electricity hogs.
Agree with what you said, but based on my numbers (in my recent post in another thread) and Deb's numbers, it looks like the delivery charge is about 100% or more of the charge on actual kwh usage. With the base charges, it is at least easier to understand, simply rate per kwh X kwh. However with this delivery charge, I understand how anyone including myself will be alarmed, even with a whole paragraph at the back of the bill to explain that "a portion of the charges are fixed and do not change from month to month". It doesn't disclose anywhere the magic formula of how the amount is calculated.
Jr. Member
May 10, 2009
177 posts
9 upvotes
Richmond Hill
BTW I live at a condo, 2 people, and the usage for the past Dec and Jan together was 759 kWh. That is, about 380 kWh per month.
Deal Addict
User avatar
Jan 6, 2002
4920 posts
4854 upvotes
Toronto
tarteaucitron wrote:
Mar 23rd, 2014 11:17 am
However with this delivery charge, I understand how anyone including myself will be alarmed, even with a whole paragraph at the back of the bill to explain that "a portion of the charges are fixed and do not change from month to month". It doesn't disclose anywhere the magic formula of how the amount is calculated.
It's somewhat amusing to realise that it was indeed an "all in pricing": at some point in the not too distant past, and then all the agitators started complaining that the pricing was not "transparent enough" and that all the costs had to be broken down. Can't win, can't lose on this, apparently.
I've got a pretty good friend who's seen me at my worst.
He don't care if I'm a blessing or a curse,
But he always shows up when the chips are down.
That's the kind of friend I like to be around.
Jr. Member
May 10, 2009
177 posts
9 upvotes
Richmond Hill
hoob wrote:
Mar 23rd, 2014 11:31 am
It's somewhat amusing to realise that it was indeed an "all in pricing": at some point in the not too distant past, and then all the agitators started complaining that the pricing was not "transparent enough" and that all the costs had to be broken down. Can't win, can't lose on this, apparently.
My point is, I prefer reasonable clarity and would be happier to see a break down of the costs. So, when this delivery charge represents the most expensive item in my bill, I would naturally want to find out HOW it is being calculated and whether it makes sense ;)
Deal Addict
User avatar
Jan 6, 2002
4920 posts
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Toronto
tarteaucitron wrote:
Mar 23rd, 2014 11:52 am
My point is, I prefer reasonable clarity and would be happier to see a break down of the costs. So, when this delivery charge represents the most expensive item in my bill, I would naturally want to find out HOW it is being calculated and whether it makes sense ;)
The information is easy to find and review online: https://www.torontohydro.com/sites/elec ... Rates.aspx

Not sure why they don't break it down by line item on the bill itself, though, probably because some people's heads would explode because too many numbers.. To summarize from that page:

Usage Charges:
* TIme of Use pricing of $0.129/kWh peak, $0.109/kWh midpeak, and $0.072/kWh off-peak

Delivery Charges:
* Transmission Charge of $0.01368/kWh
* Distribution Charge of $0.01521/kWh
* Customer Charge of $19.11 per 30days
* Smart Meter Management Charge of $0.78 per 30 days
* Recovery of foregone revenue of $0.07 per 30 days
* Recovery of foregone revenue of $0.00005/kWh
* Refund of Variance Account Charge ($0.00058/kWh)
* Refund due to Tax Changes ($0.0001/kWh)

Regulatory Charges:
* Wholesale Operations Charge $0.0056/kWh
* Standard Supply Service Charge $0.25 per 30 days

Government Charges:
* Debt Retirement Charge of $0.007/kWh
* HST charge of 13% applied to all of above
* Ontario Clean Energy Benefit of (10%) applied to all of above
I've got a pretty good friend who's seen me at my worst.
He don't care if I'm a blessing or a curse,
But he always shows up when the chips are down.
That's the kind of friend I like to be around.
Jr. Member
May 10, 2009
177 posts
9 upvotes
Richmond Hill
hoob wrote:
Mar 23rd, 2014 12:06 pm
The information is easy to find and review online: https://www.torontohydro.com/sites/elec ... Rates.aspx

Not sure why they don't break it down by line item on the bill itself, though, probably because some people's heads would explode because too many numbers.. To summarize from that page:

Usage Charges:
* TIme of Use pricing of $0.129/kWh peak, $0.109/kWh midpeak, and $0.072/kWh off-peak

Delivery Charges:
* Transmission Charge of $0.01368/kWh
* Distribution Charge of $0.01521/kWh
* Customer Charge of $19.11 per 30days
* Smart Meter Management Charge of $0.78 per 30 days
* Recovery of foregone revenue of $0.07 per 30 days
* Recovery of foregone revenue of $0.00005/kWh
* Refund of Variance Account Charge ($0.00058/kWh)
* Refund due to Tax Changes ($0.0001/kWh)

Regulatory Charges:
* Wholesale Operations Charge $0.0056/kWh
* Standard Supply Service Charge $0.25 per 30 days

Government Charges:
* Debt Retirement Charge of $0.007/kWh
* HST charge of 13% applied to all of above
* Ontario Clean Energy Benefit of (10%) applied to all of above

Thanks hoob. I was wondering if Carma Billing charges an extra service charge on top of all this, in using Toronto Hydro (presumably) as its Local Distributor. But this sounds about right for my bill. I agree that including all this info on the bill would make anyone's head explode.
Deal Addict
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Jan 6, 2002
4920 posts
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Toronto
tarteaucitron wrote:
Mar 23rd, 2014 3:02 pm
Thanks hoob. I was wondering if Carma Billing charges an extra service charge on top of all this, in using Toronto Hydro (presumably) as its Local Distributor. But this sounds about right for my bill. I agree that including all this info on the bill would make anyone's head explode.
I haven't dealt with CARMA Billing since late 2011 but as I recall at the time, their bills were very "lightweight" with not much information at all. CARMA has other problems too, e.g. their system has no restrictions on me seeing the current usage of the new owner of my condo, based on the online portal credentials I had back when I owned the condo!
I've got a pretty good friend who's seen me at my worst.
He don't care if I'm a blessing or a curse,
But he always shows up when the chips are down.
That's the kind of friend I like to be around.
Jr. Member
May 10, 2009
177 posts
9 upvotes
Richmond Hill
hoob wrote:
Mar 23rd, 2014 4:15 pm
e.g. their system has no restrictions on me seeing the current usage of the new owner of my condo, based on the online portal credentials I had back when I owned the condo!

:cheesygri :cheesygri I recall Telus (providing internet services) allowing me to log in to see the new owner's account info too!
Newbie
Jan 20, 2014
11 posts
Pete_Coach wrote:
Mar 23rd, 2014 7:43 am
As you noted before, it is not your "heat" that is costing you all the money. It is your hot tub, pumps, air exchanger etc. Your electricity costs are from all the extra things you have running. Turn them off, save some kilowatts.
Cant turn off the heat tub in the dead of winter unless I want it to break and freeze, same for the pump on the septic (warranty issue and we could be fined if they came to inspect it and it was not on), air exchanger, not sure what would happen if we turned that off, and the air to air, we did turn off last month and it saved us $100 on the hydro and cost us $437 extra in propane.. not sure that helped any :o
Banned
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Jun 22, 2012
4737 posts
668 upvotes
Shhanada
hoob wrote:
Mar 23rd, 2014 11:31 am
It's somewhat amusing to realise that it was indeed an "all in pricing": at some point in the not too distant past, and then all the agitators started complaining that the pricing was not "transparent enough" and that all the costs had to be broken down. Can't win, can't lose on this, apparently.
I don't believe these bills are a response to 'agitators'. Utility companies do this for a variety of reasons, but satisfying agitators isn't something they ever do.

They like to break things up to confuse people and to make it seem like they are rendering a whole bunch of services, and that their business is just so advanced and complicated. Dividing and conquering the numbers also lets them lie using statistics and math. They can say "our rate is only going up 1 cent per KWh", which is only $2 for the average person!" Of course they neglect to mention all the related fees that rise in reaction and in aggregation to that one tiny increase.

It also lets them increase one fee this year, one in six months and one next year. That way they can say "we've kept our carriage fee the same for 3 years!" while carefully sidestepping the fact they've raised all kinds of other constituent fees along the way.
Newbie
Oct 25, 2010
40 posts
6 upvotes
Belleville
I am using an average of 15 KWh / day.

1200 Square foot detached home with full finished basement in Belleville.
Gas heat and water. Electric Stove / dryer
21C setting all day and night
Family of 3. both gf and newborn home all day

Same house this time last year before Baby - 9 KWh / day.
Differences was less laundry and furnace was lower during the day while we were not home, and it wasn't as cold of winter.
Deal Expert
Aug 22, 2006
18060 posts
4665 upvotes
LOL I just got my bill. A hair shy of 10000 kWh over 2 months.
Deal Addict
May 31, 2006
1057 posts
102 upvotes
Burlington
death_hawk wrote:
Apr 20th, 2014 4:01 pm
LOL I just got my bill. A hair shy of 10000 kWh over 2 months.
Still heavily mining, I presume? :cheesygri
Deal Addict
User avatar
Jan 6, 2002
4920 posts
4854 upvotes
Toronto
CenturyBreak wrote:
Apr 21st, 2014 9:01 am
Still heavily mining, I presume? :cheesygri
i wonder if 'mining' is the new excuse for 'grow ops'... "No officers, all that heat signature and power using is my data farm mining virtual currency. Really!"
I've got a pretty good friend who's seen me at my worst.
He don't care if I'm a blessing or a curse,
But he always shows up when the chips are down.
That's the kind of friend I like to be around.

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