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How much do dealers mark up used cars? CCC for used cars? Looking at 07 Fusion SEL

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  • Mar 10th, 2011 10:53 am
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[OP]
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Mar 15, 2008
200 posts
26 upvotes

How much do dealers mark up used cars? CCC for used cars? Looking at 07 Fusion SEL

Hello all,

This will be my first time buying a car. I will be going to a few used car dealers this weekend to look at a few 2007 Ford Fusion SELs, V6's, FWD, fulled loaded ~70k kms. I actually need a vehicle quite urgently (obviously I dont want the dealer to know that). I see list prices for them generally between 12,900 all the way up to 14,900. I know the car dealer sticker prices are obviously super inflated, to leave room for people to negotiate, and then think they are getting a good deal. I signed up for car cost canada a while back when I was thinking of buying new, and was wondering if there was something like this for used cars? Ive tried looking at the Canadian black book, and it lists trade in value of a mint condition one being about $11,000. How accurate is that web site, and would it be something I can use to negotiate with?

I have never negotiated a car deal before, so I will be greatful for your help. Someone told me once never to negotiate from the sticker price, negotiate from the invoice price.. but I have no idea what the price is lol

And if anyone has bought one of these recently, what did you pay?

Thanks!
11 replies
Deal Expert
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May 22, 2005
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Thornhill
Decivox wrote:
Feb 4th, 2011 11:39 pm
Hello all,

This will be my first time buying a car. I will be going to a few used car dealers this weekend to look at a few 2007 Ford Fusion SELs, V6's, FWD, fulled loaded ~70k kms. I actually need a vehicle quite urgently (obviously I dont want the dealer to know that). I see list prices for them generally between 12,900 all the way up to 14,900. I know the car dealer sticker prices are obviously super inflated, to leave room for people to negotiate, and then think they are getting a good deal. I signed up for car cost canada a while back when I was thinking of buying new, and was wondering if there was something like this for used cars? Ive tried looking at the Canadian black book, and it lists trade in value of a mint condition one being about $11,000. How accurate is that web site, and would it be something I can use to negotiate with?

I have never negotiated a car deal before, so I will be greatful for your help. Someone told me once never to negotiate from the sticker price, negotiate from the invoice price.. but I have no idea what the price is lol

And if anyone has bought one of these recently, what did you pay?

Thanks!

Pricing varies, since mileage, state of car, history, and trim, etc. all are variables that change, unlike new cars where its a set amount. The Canadian Black Book, as well as VMRCanada (http://www.vmrcanada.com/) for rough estimates. Using AutoTrader as a guide works too...
Deal Fanatic
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Apr 16, 2007
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Financial District B…
a couple things.. you're looking for a used car so CCC won't help you out at all

second, cdn black books don't buy cars. Its a wholesale guide that does not even account for certification/safety and e-testing. Industry average right now is still approx $1800+ for certification when dealers obtain them from auctions, trades etc.

Lastly, no 2 used cars are going to be exactly the same. So you will never really know invoice of any used car you are seeking out.
Just spend a week or so scouring the market on the model you want to know the upper and lower scales. Thats all you can do
----------------------------Licensed Credit Bureau member, S1, FI Automotive, CCP
forums most banned = x 13 and counting, guess who that is?... stomped to the curb once again
[OP]
Member
Mar 15, 2008
200 posts
26 upvotes
mikeymike1 wrote:
Feb 5th, 2011 12:13 am
a couple things.. you're looking for a used car so CCC won't help you out at all

second, cdn black books don't buy cars. Its a wholesale guide that does not even account for certification/safety and e-testing. Industry average right now is still approx $1800+ for certification when dealers obtain them from auctions, trades etc.

Lastly, no 2 used cars are going to be exactly the same. So you will never really know invoice of any used car you are seeking out.
Just spend a week or so scouring the market on the model you want to know the upper and lower scales. Thats all you can do
Ive been looking for about 2 weeks now and pretty much think the dealers are paying 10,500 to 11,500 for these cars out of the auctions, trade ins etc. That being said, how should I present my offer to the dealer? Also, how much should I offer them if I think they are picking them up in that price range? Especially the one listed for 14,900 lol
Deal Fanatic
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Apr 16, 2007
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Financial District B…
Decivox wrote:
Feb 5th, 2011 12:20 am
Ive been looking for about 2 weeks now and pretty much think the dealers are paying 10,500 to 11,500 for these cars out of the auctions, trade ins etc. That being said, how should I present my offer to the dealer? Also, how much should I offer them if I think they are picking them up in that price range? Especially the one listed for 14,900 lol

Just go to the dealer, test drive it, write down the VIN, obtain a Carproof report, satisfy yourself that its a straight up car, test drive it again, make the dealer an offer based on what 'you think' its worth to you predicated on your own research. Simple!

Don't worry about what 'you think' they paid for it or what 'you think' invoice is. All that means nothing if you don't even like the car.
Everybody on this forum seems to (or pretends to) know the price of everything but few know the value of things

Lastly, if you play hardball and stick to a specific price structure because some clown on here tells you to and you 'get walked'... take that as a lesson learned. At least you got educated
----------------------------Licensed Credit Bureau member, S1, FI Automotive, CCP
forums most banned = x 13 and counting, guess who that is?... stomped to the curb once again
Deal Addict
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Dec 2, 2003
2826 posts
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Decivox wrote:
Feb 4th, 2011 11:39 pm
Hello all,

This will be my first time buying a car. I will be going to a few used car dealers this weekend to look at a few 2007 Ford Fusion SELs, V6's, FWD, fulled loaded ~70k kms. I actually need a vehicle quite urgently (obviously I dont want the dealer to know that). I see list prices for them generally between 12,900 all the way up to 14,900. I know the car dealer sticker prices are obviously super inflated, to leave room for people to negotiate, and then think they are getting a good deal.

In terms of pricing since you're in the GTA, when you see a vehicle thats advertised, because this is a highly competitive market, there is a good chance that its likely a blow out price. So using your example, lets assumed that the dealer that has your car for $12,900 and the other at $14,900 and lets assumed that its exactly apples to apples, so exactly same options, year, KM's, No accidents, Safetied, if you go to the dealer at the $12,900 and he happens to be the lowest price in his market, for exactly the same car he'll unlikely drop his price further if at all and why should he, he's got the best price for the best value so if you don't want it, he's ok with letting you walk, because you're likely not the only one looking at that particular car and he will sell it, then you could now be left with looking at the $13,500-$14,900 vehicles that are left...

I'll give you another example, a few months back in the Fall, I was selling Brand new 2010 Dodge Grand Caravans for $15,999 +HST so $18K out the door. I happened to be the lowest price in the GTA if not Ontario, and we had a 1 Day sale blow out sale on 10 units. That day many people try offering us even lower then that and when they threatened to leave, you guessed it... we let them walked(Politely of course). Our Price on those units were more then fair. Yes some came back later that day to buy but too late...we sold out by 1pm.

I see on here, people say look at Black book etc, sorry but Black book/Blue Book, Purple book Don't sell cars nor do they factor in reconditioning expense, advertising to get you in the door etc. Its only a guide thats it.

Play Hardball:See my example above

The best strategy and sometimes the only one is to be nice and simply ask. You'd be surprised, sometimes it takes nothing more then to ask for a better deal when you're making an offer. Sometimes price isn't everything, maybe they'll be willing to include Oil changes, or say Winter Mats as long as you're reasonable. Just remember price isn't everything and its just a Car, so don't stress yourself out too much, there are more important things in life.
:arrow: [url="merged-chrysler-dodge-jeep-questions-answers-897070/71/"[/u]Chrysler Dodge Jeep Ram Fiat Incentives [/url]


Tung(Tom)Nguyen
E-mail: tung@kawarthachrysler.com
Cell: 705-772-8847
Deal Addict
User avatar
Dec 2, 2003
2826 posts
219 upvotes
mikeymike1 wrote:
Feb 5th, 2011 12:13 am
a couple things.. you're looking for a used car so CCC won't help you out at all

second, cdn black books don't buy cars. Its a wholesale guide that does not even account for certification/safety and e-testing. Industry average right now is still approx $1800+ for certification when dealers obtain them from auctions, trades etc.

Lastly, no 2 used cars are going to be exactly the same. So you will never really know invoice of any used car you are seeking out.
Just spend a week or so scouring the market on the model you want to know the upper and lower scales. Thats all you can do
mikeymike1 wrote:
Feb 5th, 2011 12:53 am
Just go to the dealer, test drive it, write down the VIN, obtain a Carproof report, satisfy yourself that its a straight up car, test drive it again, make the dealer an offer based on what 'you think' its worth to you predicated on your own research. Simple!

Don't worry about what 'you think' they paid for it or what 'you think' invoice is. All that means nothing if you don't even like the car.
Everybody on this forum seems to (or pretends to) know the price of everything but few know the value of things

Lastly, if you play hardball and stick to a specific price structure because some clown on here tells you to and you 'get walked'... take that as a lesson learnt. At least you got educated

These are perfect examples. Couldn't say it better.
:arrow: [url="merged-chrysler-dodge-jeep-questions-answers-897070/71/"[/u]Chrysler Dodge Jeep Ram Fiat Incentives [/url]


Tung(Tom)Nguyen
E-mail: tung@kawarthachrysler.com
Cell: 705-772-8847
Deal Addict
May 16, 2006
3479 posts
109 upvotes
more % in used cars than new typically
Deal Addict
Jan 21, 2008
3709 posts
247 upvotes
T-Man wrote:
Feb 5th, 2011 1:18 am
In terms of pricing since you're in the GTA, when you see a vehicle thats advertised, because this is a highly competitive market, there is a good chance that its likely a blow out price. So using your example, lets assumed that the dealer that has your car for $12,900 and the other at $14,900 and lets assumed that its exactly apples to apples, so exactly same options, year, KM's, No accidents, Safetied, if you go to the dealer at the $12,900 and he happens to be the lowest price in his market, for exactly the same car he'll unlikely drop his price further if at all and why should he, he's got the best price for the best value so if you don't want it, he's ok with letting you walk, because you're likely not the only one looking at that particular car and he will sell it, then you could now be left with looking at the $13,500-$14,900 vehicles that are left...

I'll give you another example, a few months back in the Fall, I was selling Brand new 2010 Dodge Grand Caravans for $15,999 +HST so $18K out the door. I happened to be the lowest price in the GTA if not Ontario, and we had a 1 Day sale blow out sale on 10 units. That day many people try offering us even lower then that and when they threatened to leave, you guessed it... we let them walked(Politely of course). Our Price on those units were more then fair. Yes some came back later that day to buy but too late...we sold out by 1pm.

I see on here, people say look at Black book etc, sorry but Black book/Blue Book, Purple book Don't sell cars nor do they factor in reconditioning expense, advertising to get you in the door etc. Its only a guide thats it.

Play Hardball:See my example above

The best strategy and sometimes the only one is to be nice and simply ask. You'd be surprised, sometimes it takes nothing more then to ask for a better deal when you're making an offer. Sometimes price isn't everything, maybe they'll be willing to include Oil changes, or say Winter Mats as long as you're reasonable. Just remember price isn't everything and its just a Car, so don't stress yourself out too much, there are more important things in life.

Very well stated
Newbie
Aug 15, 2008
72 posts
toronto
how do the tax savings work on a trade? If the Black Book range of a car is say 10 - 12K, is that before or after the tax savings?
Member
User avatar
Sep 15, 2007
332 posts
18 upvotes
GTA
Depends on the car + condition.
Newer cars get marked up more, premium trim = even more.

Fusion is somewhat of a rare car on the auctions. Here are examples of past sales of Fusions for the month of February to give you a rough idea.

Image

Image

Now mind you, these cars are already sold and there is no way to look up their condition. I'm assuming the '09 fusion needed new tires or had dirty interior, furthermore, the '09 fusion is a manual, and nobody likes manual, so they always go cheaper.

The '08 was probably a company owned vehicle and they just wanted to get rid of it, because usually cars in that year/mileage go for about $800 more.
Nevertheless, I would say that its fairly accurate pricing for the non-accidental vehicles. On top of that, the dealer pays the tax, and the auction fee of about 400$.

Do the math to get the invoice price. 2-6k markup sounds accurate. Good luck!
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