Automotive

How to shift from 2nd gear to 3rd gear? (Manual Transmission)

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  • Dec 14th, 2005 4:53 pm
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Oct 26, 2003
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Also when I try to down shift from 3rd to 2nd and 2nd to 1st, the clutch have a huge resistance. I have to wait for the speed to really slow down so there wouldn't be any resistance. Do I shift to neutral while waiting the speed to go down?

For example, when i try to turn while I'm on 3rd, and there is a stop sign or I have to yeild to some vehicle. I will shift to neutral and wait for the car to slow down enough, then shift to 2nd, then shift to 1st, sometimes just skip 2nd and shift to 1st. Is that how it's suppose to be done?
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Jul 7, 2005
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I think you really need to sit with someone that drives manual. Sometimes its easier to mimic, than trying to grasps all these concepts at once...so it might be better for you to observe someone and ask questions that way and at the same time having someone to correct you.

When you downshift, do you completely take your foot off the clutch?
The resistance your talking about....feels like inertia?

**note: it is not recommended to shift into 1st. I only shift into first when i'm stationary or rolling a bit.
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Dec 4, 2003
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From what I know, that which detonates transmissions and strips teeth is known as shock load. Most often seen in launches with sticky tires or speedshifting.

I fail to see how an unmodified OEM engine mated to it's OEM transmission equivalent will prematurely wear out or destroy that tranny when the engine is nowhere near it's torque peak. HP should have nothing to do with it, it is torque that will damage.

It's not as if the engine and/or transmission will shift and shimmy about in their mounts either with that little amount of power so everything is in line with no side shearing forces.

I can see an engine suffereing permanent damage when being lugged though but tranny?

Maybe I'm missing something here but isn't the same amount of work (if measured at the wheels) being generated if the car is accelerating at the same rate of speed regardless of engine revs?


Imagine the below scenario with the same car...

30kph-80kph in 2rd gear in 3.0 seconds
30kph-80kph in 4th gear in 3.0 seconds

Are you saying that the 4th gear pull is more likely to wear down the transmission?

Are there papers written up on this topic because I'm always up for a good read?
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Nov 18, 2005
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divx wrote:People like you should get automatic, they only use 10% more fuel than the same car with manual.
I get manual because I like it, not because it's cheaper... who buys an automatic sports car, c'mon.
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Aug 27, 2004
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googoo wrote:"The trick is not to fully take your foot off the gas pedal"

Hard on the clutch, and I've never heard of anybody that does that on the street, heel and toe to keep the revs up on the track is right, but moststreet cars aren't set up properbly for "heel toe(ing)"

"take the time to pause a bit in neutral when shifting"

Good thought there, just a split second really helps the tranny.

Brent
I didn't mean not to take the foot off the gas pedal when downshifting. I meant keeping it on the gas pedal when upshifting. Example below:
Car idles at 700rpm. You're shifting from 2nd to 3rd (3000 rpm engaged in 2nd to 2200rpm engaged in 3rd at current speed). If you take a long time to shift gears (while all this time having the clutch floored), the car's revs will drop down to 700rpm (idle speed). By not taking the foot completely off the gas, the car's rpm will settle at a higher threshold (yet lower than 3000rpm) than idle rpm. This will make matching revs easier when releasing the clutch pedal.

It seems that divX biggest problem is matching revs. DivX, an easy way to match revs when downshifting is to blip the throttle just before releasing (not dropping) the clutch.

And to all the people who advise shifting at high revs:
(1) you don't know what car divX is driving, and not all cars behave like Civics -- some actually have power at lower revs. Yes, I know I'm generalizing, so if you don't drive a Civic, pretend I haven't said anything.
(2) I find it extremely hard to believe that the car user manual is wrong and you're right. Oh yeah, and the laws of physics are also not in your favour: driving more aggresively WILL cause faster wear on all parts.
(3) I don't expect to change the way you're shifting. Driving style is the reason why the average life of a clutch in North America is ~3yrs (acc. to my mechanic, anyway). It's also the reason why I'm driving a 12-year old car that has just passed 300K and still has the original clutch installed.
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Oct 4, 2004
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PocketRockets wrote:You are incorrect. If you are driving in 5th going 60 (I'm assuming this is km/h), you are putting some serious stress on your transmission.
Not necessarily. As long as you're not trying to accelerate in 5th doing 60 then you should be OK. Remember the law of inertia - "Bodies in motion tend to stay in motion". In 5th doing 60, my car has enough torque to keep the car in motion on level ground at around 1500rpm. As long as I don't open the throttle too much, I save lots of gas!
Newbie
Feb 28, 2005
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Toronto
When you downshift, stay in gear as long as possible until you are ready to downshift. Do not let your car drift on neutral. Do not go from ie. 4 to neutral to 2,1. Go in order because it will keep the gearbox up to speed.

There is a better way to learn rev matching rather than bliping the throttle. What you do is go practice on a very quiet road. Drive up to 50kph on 3rd gear, note the rpm. Drive up to 50kph on 4th gear, note the rpm. Now switch from 3rd and 4th , 4th to 3rd landing at those rpms start repeating the process. In fact you can do it at any speed as long as you are within the drivable range of that gear. (ie. don't drive 20kph on 5th!)

What you will notice is that upshift at that example requires little effort while downshift you will feel the jerk if you don't add some gas. How much to add?
Up to the RPM that you noted in that test above.

What you will realize is that in order for you to shift smoothly you will have to LAND on those rpms that you noted for that gear. When the car is jerking, the tranmission is adjusting to that difference in speed. When you cannot get in to a gear, that speed difference is too great for the transmission to adjust to so it wouldn't let you in. So let it slow down in gear before downshifting.

There is something else that you can do if you feel that you are not downshifting fast enough (double clutch) but that resistence is there to keep you from selecting the wrong gear at a too high of a speed. When familliarize yourself with the car more then it is time to learn those.
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double clutch is an advance technique, care to explain a bit more on that?
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Clutch out of gear into neutral, release clutch. Clutch into the next gear. That is double clutching. You probably have no use for it.
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and that is useful because?
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[QUOTE]Clutch out of gear into neutral, release clutch blip trottle to match revs Clutch into the next gear. That is double clutching. You probably have no use for it.[/QUOTE]

Yes, we have synchos therefore elminating the need for double clutching.

If you want to mimic double clutching someone already mentioned that...blip the throttle before you clutch into the next gear. The whole point is keep your rpms from dropping; rev matching to maintain power @ xxxx rpm range. Reason for rev matching as many may argue...but i personally believe, it saves your synchros since there is less stress on them and also, used when cornering...so the car can maintain power when exiting out of a corner. Works pretty well in snow too!

Ok since someone mention double-clutching....I will go with heel-and-toe, next! Let confuse this guy as much as possible :rolleyes:
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Dec 4, 2003
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divx wrote:double clutch is an advance technique, care to explain a bit more on that?
Let's put it this way... for your own safety and the safety of others in your immediate vicinity, if you haven't mastered 2-3 upshifts (probably the simplest shift to execute other than a 3-4 upshift) on a conventional production car, do not try double clutching unless it's in a totally hazard free area.


There are some good writeups on double clutching on the net.

I'd say to get a feel for double-clutching, again in a hazard free area like a big empty parking lot, try coasting at 30kph in neutral. Try to engage her into 3nd gear for example while maintaining speed without lurching. If you feel the lurch as a driver, it's a big one and it's not doing your tranny any good.

Then try it from the same speed but this time, try to engage her into 2nd gear.

You can also try it from 20kph and slot her into 1st.


My contention is that double clutching basically has little if any benefits for someone who is not in an HPDE (ie.race). It's a transmission preservation technique (make it to the end of the stage/race) and a traction management technique (if drive wheels lock up, you lose time or go off the track or fall off the mountain).
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what? race cars are all manual and no auto?
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divx wrote:what? race cars are all manual and no auto?
Some are manual, some are paddle shifting
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Dec 11, 2003
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" Car idles at 700rpm. You're shifting from 2nd to 3rd (3000 rpm engaged in 2nd to 2200rpm engaged in 3rd at current speed). If you take a long time to shift gears (while all this time having the clutch floored), the car's revs will drop down to 700rpm (idle speed). "

That would be a REALLY long time. A 2-3 shiftshouldn't be much more than a second,and this includes a little pause in neutral, it willtakeyouslightly longer to release the clutch say a total of MAYBE 1.5 seconds.

You should NEVER force a tranny into any gear,up or downshifting. Ifit doesn't go in smothly it isn't meant to goin that gear

Clutch ALL THE WAY IN, safest way to keep the tranny wotking right, and a lot eaasier on the syncros.

Brent
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PocketRockets wrote:Some are manual, some are paddle shifting
paddle != manual?
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googoo wrote:" Car idles at 700rpm. You're shifting from 2nd to 3rd (3000 rpm engaged in 2nd to 2200rpm engaged in 3rd at current speed). If you take a long time to shift gears (while all this time having the clutch floored), the car's revs will drop down to 700rpm (idle speed). "

That would be a REALLY long time. A 2-3 shiftshouldn't be much more than a second,and this includes a little pause in neutral, it willtakeyouslightly longer to release the clutch say a total of MAYBE 1.5 seconds.

You should NEVER force a tranny into any gear,up or downshifting. Ifit doesn't go in smothly it isn't meant to goin that gear

Clutch ALL THE WAY IN, safest way to keep the tranny wotking right, and a lot eaasier on the syncros.

Brent
er, sometimes i take 3 seconds to shift. Also, sometimes I have to use my arm strength to shift, it's heavy at times.

idle speed is 1.1k i think.
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Dec 11, 2005
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I would just like to say, divx, worry about figuring out how to drive stick normally before trying to figure out what double clutching or heel-toe is. Since you're only driving a Corolla, you're probably better off driving automatic.

Also, pocketrockets, all race cars use a form of manual transmission. Paddle shifters are manual gearboxes that only shift sequentially, that is, 1-2-3-4-5 or 5-4-3-2-1. They also tend to not have a clutch pedal, but there is a computer controlled clutch somewhere in the transmission. What makes an automatic transmission is the use of planetary gears and the torque converter. Example being, the Aston Martin DB9 has a paddle shifter but is automatic transmission because it is connected to a torque converter. The paddle shifter on the Ferrari F430 is a manual because it uses a clutch. So, therefore, the way you shift the gears is irrelevant in determining the transmission type, it's the mechanical parts in the transmission.

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