Personal Finance

HST & Ontario Trillium Benefit - Am I cheating the system ?

  • Last Updated:
  • Nov 9th, 2017 2:24 pm
Newbie
Sep 16, 2016
90 posts
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Toronto
If I were you, I would not apply for the benifit. Dealing things with the government, we'd better pay more attention on money. Honesty is the most important thing.
If we can dream it, we can make it!
Deal Fanatic
Feb 1, 2006
9240 posts
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ofertasgo wrote:
Nov 7th, 2017 12:14 am
I wonder how OHIP can find out.

Are records shared the same way as people collecting employment insurance and leaving the country?
The government definitely cross checks info nowadays, Canada Customs and OHIP share records to cut down on fraud.
Penalty Box
User avatar
Aug 23, 2006
2949 posts
186 upvotes
Aethean wrote:
Nov 7th, 2017 4:48 am
?
Just because you can doesn't mean you should.
Please read the OP.
HST & Ontario Trillium Benefit - Am I cheating the system ?
I am currently living abroad. Mostly chilling & sight seeing. I am NOT working abroad or earning ANY income abroad.

I left Canada on Feb 1 , 2017 . So almost 9 months I am out of the country. I am not planning to come back till Januray, 2018. So pretty much the whole 2017, except for Jan 2017 I am out of the country.
“There are some things money can’t buy, and for everything else there’s MasterCard. Well, get out your checkbooks ladies and gentlemen, because it seems like the entire liberal cabinet can be bought. TRUDEAU: I CAN’T BE BOUGHT...LMAO. Because its 2017
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Jan 27, 2007
4840 posts
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Peterborough
HST Credit eligibility is based on residency. Since you have significant ties, you are still resident and seem to be eligible.

https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency ... tatus.html

Here is the info on the Trillium benefit:

https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency ... tatus.html

As long as you get the sales tax credit or property tax credit, seems you are eligible. Note - property tax must be actually paid to claim the credit. How are you paying property tax and maintaining a home with zero income?
Member
Mar 14, 2010
233 posts
92 upvotes
Toronto
pickles02 wrote: ↑
Warning to the OP: If OHIP discovers you are out of the country for nine months, your coverage will be suspended and you will not be eligible to reapply for two years.
foreigncontent replied: this is incorrect, assuming OP is a resident. First OP should have applied for an exemption and continued coverage while gone (you are allowed to a 2 year lifetime exemption, which can also be split into 2 times one year).

If OP didn't apply, OP lost coverage sometimes around September (hopefully has comprehensive expat coverage). Once returning go to Service Ontario, with proof of return flight and ontario address issued AFTER date of return, coverage will start 90 day following return date. OP should get private insurance during 90 days
Yes, you are right. The OHIP suspension, if the OP did not meet residency requirements, would last 90 days, rather than the two year I thought would result. My haste to warn the OP against loss of medical coverage caused me to post without verifying the information provided by a friend. My honest mistake was penalized by two down votes.

As a courtesy to the forum, I'm providing a link from an insurance company regarding the different provincial rules about residency requirements . I doubt that the OP's plan to claim Ontario tax credits and Trillium credits will work, since, by his own account, he has already lost his residency status for the 2017 tax year and only Ontario residents are entitled to apply. https://blog.ingleinternational.com/how ... e-country/
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Jan 27, 2007
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Peterborough
pickles02 wrote:
Nov 8th, 2017 9:16 pm
Yes, you are right. The OHIP suspension, if the OP did not meet residency requirements, would last 90 days, rather than the two year I thought would result. My haste to warn the OP against loss of medical coverage caused me to post without verifying the information provided by a friend. My honest mistake was penalized by two down votes.

As a courtesy to the forum, I'm providing a link from an insurance company regarding the different provincial rules about residency requirements . I doubt that the OP's plan to claim Ontario tax credits and Trillium credits will work, since, by his own account, he has already lost his residency status for the 2017 tax year and only Ontario residents are entitled to apply. https://blog.ingleinternational.com/how ... e-country/
What residency status are you talking about? OHIP again? Income tax residency is different than that blog post you linked is talking about.
Deal Expert
Aug 22, 2011
15841 posts
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Ottawa
You paid property taxes; definitely eligible.
Member
Mar 14, 2010
233 posts
92 upvotes
Toronto
dutchca wrote:
Nov 8th, 2017 10:22 pm
What residency status are you talking about? OHIP again? Income tax residency is different than that blog post you linked is talking about.
Income tax forms are where most provincial credits are claimed. You can only get Ohip coverage and claim provincial tax credits if you are a permanent resident. In the case of OHIP, someone who ceased to be an Ontario permanent resident can once again qualify for coverage 90 days after returning to the province. Tax credits are different. Many are earned/granted each calendar year to eligible Ontario residents. Someone who was gone for the year was not a resident during that year and, I believe, might not be eligible to claim those credits for the 2017 tax year.

Paying property taxes, according to the article, is not sufficient to prove residency: "in order to be considered a permanent resident of that province ... means actually residing in your home province and being able to prove it, if necessary, not simply owning a residence there and living in Portugal, Mexico or California for eight or nine months." You may recall the case against Mike Duffy, who struggled to retain his residency in both PEI (because he was its senator) and Ontario (where he lived and qualified for OHIP). Only the CRA and the Ontario know for sure but someone who claims benefits intended for poor people while he is out of the country on a year long vacation? I doubt that claim would pass the smell test.
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Nov 7, 2017
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vkizzle wrote:
Nov 8th, 2017 10:34 pm
You paid property taxes; definitely eligible.
Yes if the OP paid property taxes he is eligible.

Plus he must be paying HST on his utility bills like water, hydro, heating. Just because he is abroad doesn't mean all these bills will stop coming- you still have to pay utilities & property tax to keep the house going and maintain it.

Shutting of the utilities can damage the house, especially shutting of heating. So the OP probably left them on to. Plus 1 month in Jan he/she was in Canada. So whatever he bought during that month he must have paid HST on it.

Plus he has physical ties to Canada, so yes he is definitely eligible for HST & OTB.
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Jan 27, 2007
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pickles02 wrote:
Nov 8th, 2017 11:32 pm
Income tax forms are where most provincial credits are claimed. You can only get Ohip coverage and claim provincial tax credits if you are a permanent resident. In the case of OHIP, someone who ceased to be an Ontario permanent resident can once again qualify for coverage 90 days after returning to the province. Tax credits are different. Many are earned/granted each calendar year to eligible Ontario residents. Someone who was gone for the year was not a resident during that year and, I believe, might not be eligible to claim those credits for the 2017 tax year.

Paying property taxes, according to the article, is not sufficient to prove residency: "in order to be considered a permanent resident of that province ... means actually residing in your home province and being able to prove it, if necessary, not simply owning a residence there and living in Portugal, Mexico or California for eight or nine months." You may recall the case against Mike Duffy, who struggled to retain his residency in both PEI (because he was its senator) and Ontario (where he lived and qualified for OHIP). Only the CRA and the Ontario know for sure but someone who claims benefits intended for poor people while he is out of the country on a year long vacation? I doubt that claim would pass the smell test.
The blog you posted has nothing to do with income tax residency. It only talks about it from an OHIP standpoint.

OP is a resident for income tax purposes as he has strong ties to Canada. Please read the link I provided above, it is pretty clear that he can claim the Ontario tax ctedits and HST. You seem to be spreading misinformation althouth you are somewhat correct about OHIP coverage issues, which are vastly different than income tax requirements.
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Mar 14, 2010
233 posts
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Toronto
dutchca wrote:
Nov 9th, 2017 7:23 am
The blog you posted has nothing to do with income tax residency. It only talks about it from an OHIP standpoint.
A determinant of eligibility for OHIP is one's residency status in the province.
OP is a resident for income tax purposes as he has strong ties to Canada. Please read the link I provided above, it is pretty clear that he can claim the Ontario tax ctedits and HST. You seem to be spreading misinformation althouth you are somewhat correct about OHIP coverage issues, which are vastly different than income tax requirements.

I have read the link you posted. Neither you nor I have sufficient information to determine if the OP has strong ties to Canada. He owns a house but he did not say it is his residence. If he's rented it, it is no longer his principal residence. If so, he no longer has a "home" in Canada. We know he is not employed. We don't know if he has a Canadian passport (and we won't find out because he's been banned from RFD, lol) but we do know that his OHIP coverage is likely suspended. So "significant residential ties" may or may not exist.

Additionally, you only considered Step 1 of the process. Step 2 was outlined in your document:
Step 2 ...If you did not have significant residential ties with Canada and you lived outside Canada throughout the year (except if you were a deemed resident of Canada), you may be considered a non-resident of Canada.
If you did not have significant residential ties with Canada and you stayed in Canada for less than 183 days in the tax year, you may be considered a non-resident of Canada.
Trillium credits are based on the previous year's income and residency. The OP is entitles to claim for 2017 Trillium credits because he was a resident of Ontario on December 2016. Whether or not he would receive any benefits depends on his income in 2016. He would (should have) filed for these in April 2017. His eligibility to receive Trillium benefits for the year he was away and not earning income is the issue in question. He will not reside in Ontario on December 31, 2017 , a threshold requirement of eligibility to receive the benefit again. He's returning in January, 2018.

Obviously, you and I could argue endlessly about our different interpretations and understanding of the facts presented by the OP. But let's stop. Tax issues are rarely simple and Lord knows how the CRA will interpret his eligibility for these credits. I maintain what I said: "Only the CRA and the Ontario know for sure" and "Someone who was gone for the year ... might not be eligible to claim those credits for the 2017 tax year." I also alerted the OP to the possibility of losing OHIP coverage (although I was misinformed about the length of suspension and acknowledged it promptly)

If the OP really wants to find out his residential status -- which is key to his eligibility for OHIP and for tax credits -- he can simply fill out a CRA form designed for this purpose and get an advance ruling instead of asking folks on a RFD form.....

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