Huge Problems with PC Financial accounts, seeking advice

[chrinFinity]

Hello there folks, I'm looking for some advice on how I can get better service from my bank... I feel they are treating me unfairly, so I thought I would share my situation with you and find out what you all can suggest.

I'm a customer of President's Choice Financial, and I have been for about 3-4 years now.

I currently make use of the following products and services:
-"Interest Plus" savings account
-"No Fee" daily chequing account
-"Unbeatable, Eat-able" Mortgage (weekly payments, in good standing)
-PC Financial Mastercard (used very frequently, also in good standing).

The problem is that the bank is forcefully withholding my deposited funds for 5 business days each time I deposit. I am only allowed a deposit limit of $1000 per week. If I deposit more than this, they withhold my money for 5 business days.

So for example, when I deposit my pay check every second Thursday, which is approximately $1400, I can only use the first $1000 to pay my bills and do other transactions, such as getting groceries. The other $400 is held hostage by the bank, untouchable for one full week following deposit. This makes managing my cashflow a lot more difficult than it should be, and it results in a waste of money being locked up, when by rights I should be able to use it.

These are my paychecks we're talking about, from the payroll department at the corporation I work for. There is no reason the bank should be placing a hold on these funds. If I try to transfer or withdraw any funds in my bank balance which are "on hold" (ie, held hostage), I get a "not sufficient funds" response. Meaning I can get "NSF" when in fact I have more than enough money in the bank to cover the transaction. This is very aggravating to me.

I have tried calling and asking to have this deposit limit removed, but both the tier 1 CSRs as well as their immediate supervisors are unable or unwilling to do anything to help me. The stated reason for this refusal is extremely irritating.

It all started 2 or 3 years ago, while I was still a college student. Before I was employed full time, I used to do IT-based freelance contract work (because it sure beats working at Blockbuster). Once upon a time, I deposited a check from a (now former) client, in good faith, and immediately I withdrew some of the money in order to finance a necessary repair to my computer. Unfortunately, the client's check came back NSF from the issuing bank, and regrettably, this caused my checking account to go into overdraft. I immediately rectified the situation by depositing cash to cover the overdrafted amount. However, as a punishment to me for "allowing" the overdraft to occur, PC Financial instituted this procedure of holding all my deposits 5 days.

It seemed unfair at the time, because I had deposited the cheque in good faith (having no reason to suspect it might be bad). It is not as though I am some degenerate who makes empty-envelope ATM deposits. But despite my misgivings at the bank's stern response, I decided to just "live with it" (rather than switching banks), because as a college student the deposit limits weren't much of a hardship for me, and because the PC Financial did promise they would consider removing the deposit limit after a specified period of time had passed (six months or a year, I can't remember). Also, at the time, I had no mortgage or credit card with PC, so I had no leverage to negotiate.

Flash forward to now, I am currently an IT professional making approximately 47k/yr. My income is continuing to rise as I climb the corporate ladder, currently my bi-weekly paychecks are about $1400... and this will only increase every quarter. The once unimportant $1000 weekly deposit limit now represents a noticeable bottleneck on my cashflow, which at this point is an unacceptable deal-breaker. My personal banking needs are no longer being met by PC.

When I ask PC Financial CSRs to please remove the weekly deposit limit, they refuse, on the grounds that I have had an NSF event in the past year. You see, in the years since the deposit limit was first instituted following the bac client check, I have suffered additional NSF events, each time as the direct result of not being allowed access to my own money, due to this deposit withholding practice.

For example, every month, I make a payment to my condo board, via a pre-authorized withdrawal from my checking account. In order to make sure the money is always there on time, I have a pre-scheduled monthly transfer from my savings to my chequing for precisely the same amount. But this month, that transfer from savings to chequing was cancelled by my bank, without any notification to me, despite having enough funds in my savings balance. The catch is that some of that savings balance (from depositing my pay check) was considered "on hold," and so I was yet again denied access to my own money.

As a result of the scheduled transfer being cancelled without notice, the subsequent pre-authorized payment to my condo board was refused. Therefore, I got an NSF fee, the condo-board also got an NSF fee (which I have to pay, of course), and it has caused me unnecessary embarassment.

I like to use a spreadsheet to tightly control my cashflow. These rules are making that nearly impossible, infuriatingly difficult, at best. And I'm getting embarrassing NSF events, not because I don't have the money, but rather because PC Financial doesn't want to let me have access to my own funds. Fact is, I have had several other NSF incidents over my time as a PC customer, all of which came as the direct result of not being able to transfer money between accounts when I need to, due to PC withholding 30% of my pay check.

It follows logically that I have now paid potentially hundreds of dollars in NSF fees, all because of unfair rules on a bank account which I originally chose based on its "no fee" premise.

I know I have a good credit rating, in fact PC Mastercard has raised my credit limit (without me asking) more than once, each time sending me a notification letter congratulating me on "successfully managing my account."

Furthermore, PC Financial also extended me a mortgage, on which I've been making regular payments for more than a year now. Clearly they are willing to do business with me, and they seem to trust me enough to be willing to extend me thousands of dollars of credit.

And yet, they are still treating me like a suspected criminal in my day-to-day banking.

I am so thoroughly disappointed with the way I've been treated by the CSRs, that I am absolutely prepared to cancel all PC financial services if I cannot have the unwanted deposit limits removed. I will cancel my MasterCard, close my bank accounts, and when my mortgage comes up for renewal, I'm prepared to take that business elsewhere too, and of course never do business with PC Financial ever again.

But I would so much rather not do that. Other than this particular snag, I have been very happy across the board with the services they offer. I am really hoping there is some VP of customer relations I can contact who will see the common sense, and make a business decision to just remove my daily deposit limit.

Do any of you know who I can contact?

Sorry for the long post.

-=chrinFinity=-

[myapple]

Stop using PCF if you value good service and reliability.

I used to have a PCF account and they offered me no overdraft and like you held my cheques for a week. I switched back to cibc and i've been much happier. No more website/payment problems and NO HOLDS ON MY CHEQUES.

[crimsondr]

PC allows me a daily deposit limit of $1500 with no holds. Anything above that is held for 5 business days.

CIBC messed up my credit check so they hold everything for 10 business days I've never called them again to fix it though...

TD for me is great with no holds on money deposited.

[brunes]

Who gets payed wit a cheque anymore?

Get your employer to EMT your paycheque, then it has 0 hold time.

You are not going to get any better at any other bank, the account I opened at BMO this past summer for example had a 5 day hold on anything I deposited over $100. Only way to lift it was to get EMT payments.

Stop using PCF if you value good service and reliability.

I used to have a PCF account and they offered me no overdraft and like you held my cheques for a week. I switched back to cibc and i've been much happier. No more website/payment problems and NO HOLDS ON MY CHEQUES.

Bah, whatever. PCF is no better or worse than any other bank. I have accounts at PCF, CIBC, TD, and BMO for various purposes. They all have or have had in the past holds of various amounts for one reason or another. And CIBC == PCF anyway.

[myapple]

Who gets payed wit a cheque anymore?

Get your employer to EMT your paycheque, then it has 0 hold time.

You are not going to get any better at any other bank, the account I opened at BMO this past summer for example had a 5 day hold on anything I deposited over $100. Only way to lift it was to get EMT payments.



Bah, whatever. PCF is no better or worse than any other bank. I have accounts at PCF, CIBC, TD, and BMO for various purposes. They all have or have had in the past holds of various amounts for one reason or another. And CIBC == PCF anyway.

Just because you can use your PCF card in a cibc machine, it does not mean they provide the same services. Completely different online system, completely different CSR reps (PCF is in like india or something), and completely different lending policies.

And FYI, lots of people still gets paid with cheque. Cheques are very common for small businesses.

[kneevase]

So, to summarize, you demonstrated a couple of years ago that you are a bad credit risk, and the bank has responded appropriately by treating you as such. Now you are on RFD whining about the fact that you made a mistake a couple of years ago and PCF is not prepared to "look the other way?"


Or is that uncharitable?

[Jacklad]

+1 for the direct deposit suggestion, but if you do have to deal with cheques, there's a relatively simple way around this (assuming you have a decent credit rating).

Apply for a PC LOC. Once you have it, make your deposits to the LOC, putting it into the positive. Transfer the amount back to your chequing account. Any holds less than the total amount of the LOC will be invisible to you, you won't incur any interest on the held funds, you'll have immediate access to your funds and you won't have to change any pre-authorized transfers.

You might want to apply for overdraft protection at the same time - it only costs if you actually overdraw, and it's a lot less than the regular rates. Applying for both at the same time means one credit check vice two.

[Lyrrad0]

A way around it would be to get an unsecured LOC from them, and deposit to that account. Then transfer the money from the LOC to whatever other account you need. Your hold will then be reflected in the LOC, which should be fine.

[kneevase]

I'm sorry if this sounds like whining to you, but I am just trying to understand why would they trust me with a 25k loc, but at the same time give me a paltry $500 hold. I would be perfectly happy without having a loc but at the same time having a 5k hold.

The unsecured line of credit is priced based on your credit risk. They are charging you Prime+XX% to reflect the risk that you represent. In other words, PCF is being compensated to take on your risk. They get no compensation to take on the risk that one of your deposits will "bounce" on them.

You have demonstrated that you are a bad credit risk by being late on a couple of payment a few years back. So why should they let you impose that risk on the bank for free?

Don't bounce any cheques, don't overdraw your accounts, and don't be late on payments for the next 5-6 years, and the banks will eventually trust you again.

[boyoflondon]

This is a pain in the ass for me as well!

I have $5k in the savings account, and yest, every time I make a deposit, I have to wait 5 days for it to appear. Not convenient what so ever!! Thanks to that stupid system, I ended up with a NSF hit and according to the rep (which was not in India BTW), I cannot get anything until 6 mths after the NSF hit.

[jcools]

Hey, I bank with them too and have a $5K hold limit. Even with that amount I have ran into a few problems myself. To get aroung this I got overdraft protection for $2K. I am never actually in an overdraft position but this allows me to deposit up to $7K without a hold. This means that the hold is really on my overdraft amount which I wouldn't use anyways. It's like $5 a month plus 19.9% interest when you actually have a credit balance, but free if your not in a credit balance.

This idea is in-line with the guys LOC idea except it is a lot easier to do, and hey overdraft might come in handy if you were to actually bounce a cheque one day.

[TopTaxGuy]

I hear you that it is frustrating. The fact with cheques is that when you deposit them, the cheque is not immediately withdrawn from the cheque writers account. There can be from 3-5 days for the proceeds to clear. So, when a bank allows its clients to withdraw funds immediately, they are advancing the funds on the promise that the other part will honour the cheque.

If you receive your pay via cheque you are a bit of an anomaly in the current market as most people now get direct deposit. What I suggest is that you contact the COBC ombudsman for banking services and explain your situation as PC Financial may have limits imposed on it by CIBC.

The ombudsman can be reached at 1-800-308-6859 or 416-861-3313 or fax: 1-800-308-6861 or 416-980-3754 (Toronto area) e-mail: ombudsman@cibc.com
Or mail CIBC Ombudsman
P.O. Box 342, Commerce Court
Toronto, ON M5L 1G2

[Lyrrad0]

This idea is in-line with the guys LOC idea except it is a lot easier to do, and hey overdraft might come in handy if you were to actually bounce a cheque one day.

Yeah.

There are some advantages to using the LOC as a chequing account in PCF. They both offer similar features like free cheques.


- You can transfer money in and pay a bill on the same day, since if payment goes through first, it will go back up to 0 by the end of the day. This way you can get interest on the full amount of your savings without leaving a buffer in your account.

- No NSF charges if you mess up.

- Free monthly printed statement.

- Disadvantage: you don't earn interest on any positive balances.

[chrinFinity]

So, to summarize, you demonstrated a couple of years ago that you are a bad credit risk, and the bank has responded appropriately by treating you as such. Now you are on RFD whining about the fact that you made a mistake a couple of years ago and PCF is not prepared to "look the other way?"

Or is that uncharitable?

Not so much "uncharitable" as "completely incorrect." My point was that I'm not a bad credit risk; and in fact my credit rating, as well as the other business PC is willing to do with me, clearly reflects this. My issue is only with one specific policy applied to my checking and savings accounts.

Thank you everyone for your replies! I'm still considering my options, thinking of contacting the ombudsman but I might just try the LOC solution.

If anyone has anymore ideas I'm all ears!

-=chrinFinity=-

[Trooper8111]

TD CanadaTrust FTW. No holds unless it's a huge BT check from MBNA