Ongoing Deal Discussion

[Hyundai] [ONT] Hyundai Ioniq SE Electric - $28,352 all-in after ONT rebate

  • Last Updated:
  • Nov 16th, 2017 12:50 pm
Member
May 23, 2008
449 posts
86 upvotes
Toronto
deeznuts wrote:
Sep 13th, 2017 12:02 pm
Uh, wut? A km is a km no matter what part of the world you measure it in. Or am I missing something? Maybe the European estimates are higher, if they aren't taking winter climates into consideration?
Here's an explication I posted in the Smart thread. Yes, you are missing something :-)

Range for the new Smart is not 160 km. It is about 127 with the Eco switch engaged.
I thought that it was 160 as well, since almost all the dumb reviewers on US & Canadian auto sites have been asserting 160 km, but that is the European metric (NEDC) . We use the EPA metric. You would think that auto reviewers would know that and point it out.
The European measure bears no relation to reality and I believe it is soon to be replaced.
For example the e-Golf has a range of 201kms here (EPA). The European NEDC figure for the same car is 300.

http://pushevs.com/2017/05/23/electric- ... able-nedc/

http://pushevs.com/electric-car-range-efficiency-epa/
Sr. Member
User avatar
Nov 27, 2003
684 posts
142 upvotes
Avignon wrote:
Sep 13th, 2017 2:43 pm
Here's an explication I posted in the Smart thread. Yes, you are missing something :-)

Range for the new Smart is not 160 km. It is about 127 with the Eco switch engaged.
I thought that it was 160 as well, since almost all the dumb reviewers on US & Canadian auto sites have been asserting 160 km, but that is the European metric (NEDC) . We use the EPA metric. You would think that auto reviewers would know that and point it out.
The European measure bears no relation to reality and I believe it is soon to be replaced.
For example the e-Golf has a range of 201kms here (EPA). The European NEDC figure for the same car is 300.

http://pushevs.com/2017/05/23/electric- ... able-nedc/

http://pushevs.com/electric-car-range-efficiency-epa/
Ah, gotcha. I'm paying more attention now that I am in the market for a new vehicle. :)

VW would be well advised to ensure that the range of these cars are not overstated, considering the trouble they got in the last time they were dishonest.
Member
User avatar
Sep 8, 2014
496 posts
387 upvotes
Toronto, ON
762mm wrote:
Sep 13th, 2017 2:27 am
electric car hype ...supposedly "saving the planet"...actual math is not as awesome as it looks on paper...you have to be well off to drive an electric car ...compare TOTAL long-term ownership costs between gas and electric cars of the same make and model for a change, like after 10 years of ownership
Well, I've been "driving the hype" for 4 years now with my Smart ED. Total unplanned maintenance cost is $3 for a rear tail light bulb. Planned maintenance was a single $300 visit with brake fluid replacement (standard for any type of car) and battery check. Performance of the battery : flawless. Still have 99%+ original capacity.

It's $200/month, taxes and fuel included for ~10000 km per year.

The Ontario rebate makes it financially attractive to trade in now for a newer model and continue driving for $200/month on the road with fuel.

My previous car was an old Ford Focus, solid transportation, nothing fancy, long paid for, and the running costs to maintain, gas bill and increased insurance costs (because it was an old unsafe car in comparison to my newer safer Smart ED) were around $150/month.

So I am driving a brand new car every 4 years, with far better acceleration, quieter, better tech for $50 more per month vs driving an old piece of SH*T gas car ... works for me.

Note that anyone can buy and own an EV, lots of used EV's on the market for $12K or less now, my neighbour just rolled up in a used Smart ED, that he freaking loves by the way, try an EV out...they are here now for anyone of any means.
Deal Fanatic
Mar 22, 2004
8969 posts
570 upvotes
Mississauga
Is this actually true? Is this confirmed with MTO and EV incentive program?
seafish wrote:
Sep 13th, 2017 12:52 am
Wrong, government EV rebates apply not where you buy the car, but where you register it. I f you can find a dealer in US that is willing to sell it to you with exporting documentation then there won't be a problem getting rebate in ON.

P.S. this thread needs to be moved to 'Automotive' discussion. There is no 'Hot Deal' if Hyundai is not offering anything off MSRP.
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Feb 5, 2006
5607 posts
495 upvotes
Toronto
SmartElectric wrote:
Sep 13th, 2017 3:53 pm
Well, I've been "driving the hype" for 4 years now with my Smart ED. Total unplanned maintenance cost is $3 for a rear tail light bulb. Planned maintenance was a single $300 visit with brake fluid replacement (standard for any type of car) and battery check. Performance of the battery : flawless. Still have 99%+ original capacity.

It's $200/month, taxes and fuel included for ~10000 km per year.

The Ontario rebate makes it financially attractive to trade in now for a newer model and continue driving for $200/month on the road with fuel.

My previous car was an old Ford Focus, solid transportation, nothing fancy, long paid for, and the running costs to maintain, gas bill and increased insurance costs (because it was an old unsafe car in comparison to my newer safer Smart ED) were around $150/month.

So I am driving a brand new car every 4 years, with far better acceleration, quieter, better tech for $50 more per month vs driving an old piece of SH*T gas car ... works for me.

Note that anyone can buy and own an EV, lots of used EV's on the market for $12K or less now, my neighbour just rolled up in a used Smart ED, that he freaking loves by the way, try an EV out...they are here now for anyone of any means.
Approximately how much are the used Smart EDs going for?
Jr. Member
Aug 23, 2007
197 posts
68 upvotes
Montreal, Qc.
drgrittani wrote:
Sep 13th, 2017 11:19 am
From everything I've read, it is the exact opposite of what you say. TCO for EVs is less than comparable ICE cars. Maintenance is practically nothing. And my anecdotal evidence as a Volt owner for three years, is that the maintenance is a lot less for EVs, much less than I thought going in. You drive just a bit efficiently, aggressively use regen braking, and brake pad wear is next to nil. The battery warranty is eight years or 160,000km (from memory, something like that) . For well designed battery systems like in the Volt/Bolt, battery degradation has been insignificant. http://insideevs.com/chevy-volt-400000- ... gradation/

First of all, batteries (any batteries) have a shelf life, so it's not really relevant to say that a 2012 Volt has 400,000 km on the ticker and the battery is still good. How good will the battery be on a Volt that's 10 years old and driven in Canadian winters every year, regardless of mileage? Ever had a laptop battery crap out simply because it was old (I think we all did at some point - good one day, bad on the next with no warning). In any case, imminent battery failure is very likely as the car simply ages.

Second:
This is likely the highest mileage Volt in the world and even though it’s driven on gas more often than electric


8 year battery warranties have been the norm for pretty much all hybrids and electric cars for a while now. However, when you have a fleet of cars, the same warranty will not apply, as fleet warranties tend to be quite a bit shorter.

Regardless, let's say the battery does last just past the warranty period and then craps out on you. How much is a new battery? From experience (fleet hybrids at work), they are just about $8,000... and that's the reason they junked a 5 year old SUV that cost $10k more new than its' gasoline counterpart. Whatever they "saved" in gas over 5 years went out in a puff of smoke (and then some!) on that infamous day when the hybrid displayed a main battery fault and wouldn't start. Everything else on it ran great, however the scammers who built these hybrid systems will not allow YOUR car/truck to run solely on the gas engine when the main hybrid battery is kaput. This is true across all the brands by the way: Toyota, Ford, etc. I remember reading a few horror stories on edmunds.com which indicate this is a fairly common occurrence for all brands. It's just a matter of when, not if...

Also, the hybrid system of any brand is apparently engineered and built by the same company somewhere in Asia, based on what I've read about them when I still found the idea kind of "cool" (the cool factor wore off pretty quickly though). As such, they are pretty much identical quality-wise across the car makes, as they are built by the same people.

Finally, there are plenty of 8+ year old gasoline cars on the roads with no monthly payments that require minimal maintenance and run like champs. I doubt we'll be saying the same about electric or hybrid cars when they go off warranty and are pushing the big 1-0. $8k is a lot to drop on a car that's approaching 10 years of age and the sleazy dealers damn well know it. They also know you'll just go in and buy another $40k "planet saver" instead, which will of course have the newest generation super-duper battery, Bluetooth rain sensors in its' headlights and an incentive from our corrupt globalist government (that your neighbors will have to reimburse in the next budget)....

:rolleyes:
Jr. Member
Aug 23, 2007
197 posts
68 upvotes
Montreal, Qc.
SmartElectric wrote:
Sep 13th, 2017 3:53 pm
So I am driving a brand new car every 4 years, with far better acceleration, quieter, better tech for $50 more per month vs driving an old piece of SH*T gas car ... works for me.

Note that anyone can buy and own an EV, lots of used EV's on the market for $12K or less now, my neighbour just rolled up in a used Smart ED, that he freaking loves by the way, try an EV out...they are here now for anyone of any means.
...but you are on the hook with the dealer for LIFE, paying $200 a month till the day you push up daisies (plus an extra chunk of it is being paid by your fellow taxpayers, so you can drive your electric Smart for cheaper). This is what I meant when I said people on a budget can't afford to drive electric. Also, a Smart is not really a car for everyone. In fact, it's a car for a very select group of people. Most folks will need transportation that actually fits more than two very slim 5' talls and a single grocery bag, no pun intended. I drove one once (loaner) and would never have the guts to take it out on a highway.... it was flimsy all around and felt like a golf cart with a turbo, lol (getting in and out was a huge pain in the rear too). Definitely not a realistic car for my needs and expectations.

If you're going to compare costs, you should do it with a realistic vehicle comparison: compare long-term ownership costs of a gasoline-powered Toyota Corolla (the smallest family cruiser that's still "reasonable" in size) and it's closest electric counterpart... and do it over 10 years of ownership. I can guarantee you the Corolla will come up on top in overall savings and still run like a top, despite its' evil gasoline-guzzling engine; whereas the guy with the electric will probably already be on his second or third electric car by then... and STILL making those monthly payments to Big Electric, while proudly bragging about his "gas savings"!

But hey, that works for Al and his friends: :D

Image
Newbie
Sep 12, 2006
59 posts
40 upvotes
https://www.economist.com/news/leaders/ ... orld-death

Read at the above link. It's coming, get over it. Not overnight, the ICE will be around for awhile still, trucking/shipping industries will have ICE even longer, but it is coming. Also, yes all batteries degrade over time. The volt battery had this designed in, it uses something like 85% of its capacity initially, and as that used part degrades, it starts using the other 15%. I had all the same reservations, so went with the Volt, so I always still have the gas option. I don't have any of those reservations any more.
Newbie
Jul 5, 2017
66 posts
21 upvotes
762mm wrote:
Sep 17th, 2017 8:47 pm
Most folks will need transportation that actually fits more than two very slim 5' talls and a single grocery bag, no pun intended. I drove one once (loaner) and would never have the guts to take it out on a highway.... it was flimsy all around and felt like a golf cart with a turbo, lol (getting in and out was a huge pain in the rear too). Definitely not a realistic car for my needs and expectations.


Image
May be you should loan other plug in or electric models which is fair comparison like corolla vs Volt or corolla vs Bolt?

I'm over 6' and over 190lbs. But I'm enjoying the bolt for what i'm paying, Also, can you please throw some light on tax payers money comment?

I didn't get that much, If you talking about Govt. incentives then even OP (smart) is paying his taxes isn't he?
Deal Addict
Sep 10, 2008
4213 posts
2070 upvotes
Kitchener
DheerajA585 wrote:
Sep 18th, 2017 9:52 am
I'm over 6' and over 190lbs. But I'm enjoying the bolt for what i'm paying, Also, can you please throw some light on tax payers money comment?

I didn't get that much, If you talking about Govt. incentives then even OP (smart) is paying his taxes isn't he?
Just an unintelligent troll who doesn't want in on the incentives but complains when other people depend on them. If the incentives go away, so do my Model 3 preorders sadly :( I'd say I'm lower middle class, can't afford the Model 3 without the incentives, just have to keep driving Leafs and Smart ED's (nothing wrong with these cars).
Newbie
Jul 5, 2017
66 posts
21 upvotes
IntrepidRT wrote:
Sep 18th, 2017 9:59 am
If the incentives go away, so do my Model 3 preorders sadly :( I'd say I'm lower middle class, can't afford the Model 3 without the incentives,
Exactly!! I can't imagine myself buying a Bolt without incentives though knowing you are contributing to greener tomorrow. Govt. should be applauded for encouraging buyers to pitch bit more to get an electric car.
Member
Sep 28, 2003
308 posts
25 upvotes
The battery life depends on how well it is maintained. The Leaf is air cooled but other manufacturers use liquid cooling that is much better for batteries. There's the 2012 Volt that has over 100,000 miles on electric over 4 years and still has its rated range. Laptop batteries wear out due to heat and how often the battery is charged to 100% or depleted lower than 20%.
Deal Addict
Sep 10, 2008
4213 posts
2070 upvotes
Kitchener
Sarc wrote:
Sep 18th, 2017 10:28 am
The battery life depends on how well it is maintained. The Leaf is air cooled but other manufacturers use liquid cooling that is much better for batteries. There's the 2012 Volt that has over 100,000 miles on electric over 4 years and still has its rated range. Laptop batteries wear out due to heat and how often the battery is charged to 100% or depleted lower than 20%.
In my 3-1/2 year old Leaf with 80,000km, the battery health is currently at 93% according to my Leaf Spy app. I often run the battery below 20% (maybe twice or three times per week on average) and charge to 100% almost every night. Should last about 15 years (300,000+km) at this rate assuming at 70% the battery theoretically needs replacement because it doesn't charge enough anymore. I'd say concerns about battery longevity without active cooling are overblown with Nissan's current battery chemistry (the 2011-2013's weren't as lucky as far as I understand). I don't have a L3 charge port on my car, so I guess that COULD reduce it if I was quick charging often, but I seriously doubt it would have much effect.

Top

Thread Information

There is currently 1 user viewing this thread. (0 members and 1 guest)