Food & Drink

I was charged full HST for prepared food under $4 today.

  • Last Updated:
  • Feb 23rd, 2018 11:30 pm
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Jan 27, 2007
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Kasakato wrote: I've never heard of a regulation requiring the POS rebate. The end consumer would use form GST189, reason code 16 to claim the PST portion.
It is not illegal for a business to collect HST when a POS rebate can be applied:

https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency ... rages.html

See the section under "How to claim the rebate."

For those that dont click - it is applied at the point of sale, OR by filing a rebate claim (i.e. GST189).
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Oct 25, 2009
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The solution is to tax everything and increase the GST/HST rebate for the “poor” like me. Rich people that pay extra for “organic” (prepared at home by the nany) pay 0% sales tax, but working stiffs that buy a relatively healthy salad near work must pay HST.
Toronto is a very small part of Canada
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Jan 31, 2016
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Been noticing the same issue with several McDonald's locations lately. Being charged 13% HST on $3.99 happy meal purchases. What once totalled $4.19 including tax is now $4.39 or so. Oddly enough, $3.99 plus 13% should be $4.50. What part of the happy meal is getting taxed at 13%?
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Feb 9, 2012
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dotsandpixels wrote: Been noticing the same issue with several McDonald's locations lately. Being charged 13% HST on $3.99 happy meal purchases. What once totalled $4.19 including tax is now $4.39 or so. Oddly enough, $3.99 plus 13% should be $4.50. What part of the happy meal is getting taxed at 13%?
That sounds like the 5% tax went through twice as an illegal 10% tax.
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Apr 20, 2011
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I would guess pop and toy are taxed and food is not.
I doubt their POS has changed, it used to be set up as base meal + side + drink + toy line items. (you could sub drink/side for whichever and toy could be subbed for cookies if they so chose)
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Dec 28, 2004
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is there hst on prepared cold salads as i got charged hst for the no frills $1 sale on ziggys potato salad, macaroni salad, coleslaw? what gives as this is cold prepared food
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Apr 2, 2010
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Noticed this at Charley's Subs in Square One. They too could not care less when I asked them about their tax error! It was for fries $3.99 or something below $4 which got taxed at 13%.
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Nov 15, 2004
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At least it prevents people from holding up the line by ordering 10 separate $4 orders :P
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ceraf wrote: At least it prevents people from holding up the line by ordering 10 separate $4 orders :P
There is no hold up in the line. It merely seems that way. It's the same ten orders regardless.
Last edited by playnicee1 on Feb 19th, 2018 3:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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martydxb wrote: Noticed this at Charley's Subs in Square One. They too could not care less when I asked them about their tax error! It was for fries $3.99 or something below $4 which got taxed at 13%.
That is illegal in Ontario!
If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
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Nov 10, 2015
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Nice to see this post again.
I went into a nearby corner store/ gas station the other day and bought a small can of condensed milk. I gave the guy the correct change but it rang up several cents more.
Why the difference? He told me there is GST on it.
Bull!
I argued a bit with him and his buddy, but their English was impossible to understand. Probably mine was too to him
He kept pointing to the chocolate figure on the label and jabbering about chocolate milk.
I finally gave up in frustration and gave him the additional cents.
Was it ignorance or intentional on their part?
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Jan 21, 2008
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poleman wrote: Nice to see this post again.
I went into a nearby corner store/ gas station the other day and bought a small can of condensed milk. I gave the guy the correct change but it rang up several cents more.
Why the difference? He told me there is GST on it.
Bull!
I argued a bit with him and his buddy, but their English was impossible to understand. Probably mine was too to him
He kept pointing to the chocolate figure on the label and jabbering about chocolate milk.
I finally gave up in frustration and gave him the additional cents.
Was it ignorance or intentional on their part?
I believe sweetened & chocolate milk products are subjected to the full HST
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Nov 10, 2015
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HP_John wrote: I believe sweetened & chocolate milk products are subjected to the full HST
This was just regular condensed milk, but had a picture of a chunk of chocolate on it, suggesting what could be made with the product.
But the useless clerk and his buddy and their inability to communicate in English made the whole process futile.
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Sep 15, 2014
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This happened to me before.
Solution? Vote with your wallet.
I did not end up paying for it, and I have never gone back to that restaurant.
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Mar 14, 2005
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TotallyKiller wrote:
Pretty sure if the rebate is to be applied at the till at the time of sale (again, what "point of sale rebate" means), that it is actually unlawful for them to force it back on the consumer for submission. Otherwise every business owner would do it.

Could totally be wrong though. I didn't look it up. Feel free to post links if you got em.
Kasakato wrote: I've never heard of a regulation requiring the POS rebate. The end consumer would use form GST189, reason code 16 to claim the PST portion.
https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency ... rages.html

Filing rebate claims with the CRA

"If the registrant supplier does not pay or credit the rebate amount at the point of sale, then the recipient of the qualifying prepared food and beverages sold in Ontario can file a rebate claim with the CRA using Form GST189, General Application for Rebate of GST/HST.

The rebate amount that the CRA pays to the recipient will equal the amount of the provincial part of the HST that the recipient paid on the sale of the qualifying prepared food and beverages. The recipient has to file Form GST189 within four years after the day the provincial part of the HST became payable.

If the registrant supplier does not pay or credit the rebate amount at the point of sale and the recipient of the qualifying prepared food and beverages sold in Ontario is a registrant acquiring the prepared food and beverages for use or supply in the course of a commercial activity, then the recipient can claim an input tax credit (ITC) to recover the 5% federal part of the HST paid. The recipient has to file a rebate claim, using Form GST189, to recover the 8% provincial part of the HST paid. The recipient has to file this form within four years after the day the provincial part of the HST became payable."
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Nov 15, 2004
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playnicee1 wrote: There is no hold up in the line. It merely seems that way. It's the same ten orders regardless.
Sometimes, yes, it's a negligible time difference if the food preparation takes a long time.

But for cases when the food preparation is quick, the cashier spends extra time punching in an order, doing the payment/change, and printing a separate receipt for each of the orders. All that extra time adds up to more than just putting all on a single order/bill.

Personally I don't mind that much. If they're willing to go through the trouble to save money, I think they deserve it.
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ceraf wrote: Sometimes, yes, it's a negligible time difference if the food preparation takes a long time.

But for cases when the food preparation is quick, the cashier spends extra time punching in an order, doing the payment/change, and printing a separate receipt for each of the orders. All that extra time adds up to more than just putting all on a single order/bill.

Personally I don't mind that much. If they're willing to go through the trouble to save money, I think they deserve it.
I still don't see a slow down. The cashier is still entering the exact same info regardless. It takes the exact same length of time. The mere slowdown is tearing each paper receipt individually. Woo hoo.
As long as those ten orders can be on one order number, there shouldn't be a problem.
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playnicee1 wrote: I still don't see a slow down. The cashier is still entering the exact same info regardless. It takes the exact same length of time. The mere slowdown is tearing each paper receipt individually. Woo hoo.
As long as those ten orders can be on one order number, there shouldn't be a problem.
I can see where you're coming from. I know this is an extreme example where food preparation takes very little time, but here it is:

Case 1: All on one bill
1) Press a button to order a coffee. Repeat 10 times (or multiply by 10, which could be a few button presses less). Maybe about 5 seconds
2) Receive payment. Can be fast or slow, but let's assume a quicker time of about 3 seconds.
3) Print receipt and provide change. About 3 seconds
4) Pour 10 coffees and serve. Maybe 20 seconds.
Total is 5+3+3+20 = 31 seconds

Case 2: Separate bills
1) Press a button to order a coffee. Should be quick, so let's say 1 second.
2) Receive payment. Assume same time as before, which is 3 seconds.
3) Print receipt and provide change. About 3 seconds
4) Repeat 1-3 another 9 times (for a total of 10 orders)
5) Pour 10 coffees and serve. 20 seconds like the first case.
Total is (1+3+3)x10 + 20 = 90 seconds


90 seconds vs 31 seconds (almost a minute) may be a significant delay for people in a rush to pick up something quick and go to make it to their next appointment.

Of course, the longer the food preparation time takes, the less significant the extra minute wait will become compared to the total time of waiting. And realistically for many places that don't serve that quickly, yes, you're right that it's not much of a slowdown. I'm sure there are people who wouldn't mind waiting a minute extra if they've already been waiting for 5 minutes.


Anyway, off-topic discussion :)
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ceraf wrote: I can see where you're coming from. I know this is an extreme example where food preparation takes very little time, but here it is:

Case 1: All on one bill
1) Press a button to order a coffee. Repeat 10 times (or multiply by 10, which could be a few button presses less). Maybe about 5 seconds
2) Receive payment. Can be fast or slow, but let's assume a quicker time of about 3 seconds.
3) Print receipt and provide change. About 3 seconds
4) Pour 10 coffees and serve. Maybe 20 seconds.
Total is 5+3+3+20 = 31 seconds

Case 2: Separate bills
1) Press a button to order a coffee. Should be quick, so let's say 1 second.
2) Receive payment. Assume same time as before, which is 3 seconds.
3) Print receipt and provide change. About 3 seconds
4) Repeat 1-3 another 9 times (for a total of 10 orders)
5) Pour 10 coffees and serve. 20 seconds like the first case.
Total is (1+3+3)x10 + 20 = 90 seconds


90 seconds vs 31 seconds (almost a minute) may be a significant delay for people in a rush to pick up something quick and go to make it to their next appointment.

Of course, the longer the food preparation time takes, the less significant the extra minute wait will become compared to the total time of waiting. And realistically for many places that don't serve that quickly, yes, you're right that it's not much of a slowdown. I'm sure there are people who wouldn't mind waiting a minute extra if they've already been waiting for 5 minutes.


Anyway, off-topic discussion :)
Anybody can fudge those numbers in their favour to make a point though, really.
I can clearly say I've never experienced a longer wait time due to someone wanting to pay for each item separately.
(as long as they have their money or tap card ready)
If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

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