Shopping Discussion

I see milk went up again.

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  • Apr 19th, 2018 7:12 am
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Dec 26, 2010
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retrothing wrote: Communism (n.): "A political theory derived from Karl Marx, advocating class war and leading to a society in which all property is publicly owned and each person works and is paid according to their abilities and needs."

The dairy system in Canada is not an example of communism. It's a classic example of industry protectionism (with 270% import tariffs) and government subsidy through artificially high pricing. The intent when the system was implemented in the 70s was to stabilize farm income, following intense lobbying by the dairy industry.

This remains a contentious issue today, since over 40% of Canadian dairy production comes from Quebec and 30% from Ontario. Eliminating import restrictions and dairy board pricing would impact a specific region of the country, making it a political hot potato.
It really isn't a contentious issue, Canadians just love Corporate welfare - as long as they dub that welfare to the right business. They'll scream out at big bad oil and with the other hand spend millions per job at a Car manufacturer, or in this case supply management cartel that has dumped millions of litres of milk in the sewer rather than sell it at a discount.

This country.
Indexer, non-yield chasing, low cost, broad based, as simple as possible investor.
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Jul 13, 2014
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wm009 wrote: It really isn't a contentious issue, Canadians just love Corporate welfare - as long as they dub that welfare to the right business. They'll scream out at big bad oil and with the other hand spend millions per job at a Car manufacturer, or in this case supply management cartel that has dumped millions of litres of milk in the sewer rather than sell it at a discount.

This country.
I think we stole the whole "privatize profits, socialize losses" concept from the US.
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wm009 wrote: It really isn't a contentious issue, Canadians just love Corporate welfare - as long as they dub that welfare to the right business. They'll scream out at big bad oil and with the other hand spend millions per job at a Car manufacturer, or in this case supply management cartel that has dumped millions of litres of milk in the sewer rather than sell it at a discount.

This country.
Governments are faced with two divergent options. They can either allow a completely free market in which businesses and industries fail based on national and international pressures, or implement trade barriers and incentives to prop up industry deemed too important to fail. Actual policy usually falls somewhere in the middle, unless we're talking about political flashpoints.

To make the problem worse, we have a way of electing successive federal governments with different views on the issue, which causes national policy to oscillate like a giant salmon swimming upstream.

Neither is the right approach, especially when taken to extremes. A completely free market leads to consolidation under the hand of a few billionaire owners (it's a game of monopoly where someone else owns the entire board), and trade barriers sharply and unnecessarily raise the price of goods.

Every economist on the planet eagerly awaits your sage advice to resolve this problem. There's a Nobel prize in economics in it for you as well.
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retrothing wrote: Governments are faced with two divergent options. They can either allow a completely free market in which businesses and industries fail based on national and international pressures, or implement trade barriers and incentives to prop up industry deemed too important to fail. Actual policy usually falls somewhere in the middle, unless we're talking about political flashpoints.

To make the problem worse, we have a way of electing successive federal governments with different views on the issue, which causes national policy to oscillate like a giant salmon swimming upstream.

Neither is the right approach, especially when taken to extremes. A completely free market leads to consolidation under the hand of a few billionaire owners (it's a game of monopoly where someone else owns the entire board), and trade barriers sharply and unnecessarily raise the price of goods.

Every economist on the planet eagerly awaits your sage advice to resolve this problem. There's a Nobel prize in economics in it for you as well.
It's not that black and white. It's not "be a completely free and open capitalist market" vs "be a completely closed and regulated socialist market"

We have a mixed market. We take aspects from both. We don't lean on either extreme and I don't think any country in the world does.
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MayorOfToronto wrote: It's not that black and white. It's not "be a completely free and open capitalist market" vs "be a completely closed and regulated socialist market"

We have a mixed market. We take aspects from both. We don't lean on either extreme and I don't think any country in the world does.
Agreed. That's why I said, "Actual policy usually falls somewhere in the middle, unless we're talking about political flashpoints."
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Jan 27, 2005
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vkizzle wrote: No difference in taste, but the filtered milk lasts longer.
We're not a big milk drinkers, as 3 bags will last us well past "expiration" date; but it doesn't turn.
I do find a difference in taste, but also I often find that Natrel's expiry dates are 1-2 weeks later than the cheapest options.
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Better run and buy it up before it goes up! (Me trying to buy milk on Easter Sunday at shoppers. It wasn't pretty.)

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Feb 7, 2017
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retrothing wrote:
Communism (n.): "A political theory derived from Karl Marx, advocating class war and leading to a society in which all property is publicly owned and each person works and is paid according to their abilities and needs."

The dairy system in Canada is not an example of communism. It's a classic example of industry protectionism (with 270% import tariffs) and government subsidy through artificially high pricing. The intent when the system was implemented in the 70s was to stabilize farm income, following intense lobbying by the dairy industry.

This remains a contentious issue today, since over 40% of Canadian dairy production comes from Quebec and 30% from Ontario. Eliminating import restrictions and dairy board pricing would impact a specific region of the country, making it a political hot potato.
retrothing wrote: Governments are faced with two divergent options. They can either allow a completely free market in which businesses and industries fail based on national and international pressures, or implement trade barriers and incentives to prop up industry deemed too important to fail. Actual policy usually falls somewhere in the middle, unless we're talking about political flashpoints.

To make the problem worse, we have a way of electing successive federal governments with different views on the issue, which causes national policy to oscillate like a giant salmon swimming upstream.

Neither is the right approach, especially when taken to extremes. A completely free market leads to consolidation under the hand of a few billionaire owners (it's a game of monopoly where someone else owns the entire board), and trade barriers sharply and unnecessarily raise the price of goods.

Every economist on the planet eagerly awaits your sage advice to resolve this problem. There's a Nobel prize in economics in it for you as well.
THANK YOU

FINALLY someone in Canada who actually understands the Dairy Industry... and how Canadian Economics in general work.

People need to read up on the history of the Dairy Industry in this country to truly understand what things looked like here before the Standardization of Dairy Industry (including pricing)

And yes Quebec & Ontario are the largest producers.

Not so long ago, The average Cdn child was considered under nourished because milk was not easily accessible right across this vast country

This situation was rectified after the Second World War via better production, storage & transportation systems and... better compensation to the Cdn Dairy Farmer

Milk is a LIFE STAPLE here in Canada

Dairy Farming here is mostly regional, and not easy... because of our geography and short growing season

If we did away with “the fine balance” we currently have... then ya, we’d be able to buy milk cheaper as US Milk flooded over our borders.

But at what cost ?

Our Dairy Farmers would go out of business.

If that happened the US would definitely look at as DESPERATE and they would in turn jack up prices to whatever the market would stand... and that would be SIGNIFICANTLY MORE in the long run over what we pay for Milk & Dairy Products now

Also... it would put us as a country in a very precarious position... as we would become DEPENDENT on others for a STAPLE that we can produce on our own

What if... the Americans decided one day due to an unforeseeable situation in their country (ie War) that they no longer could supply us ?
Where would this leave us ?

If anything is to be learned from the last 100 years, and 2 World Wars, is that countries need to create economies that are based somewhat on protecting the necessities of life for their own citizens
Last edited by PointsHubby on Apr 18th, 2018 1:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Aug 4, 2008
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Toronto, ON
Piro21 wrote: Milk is provincially regulated as a result of our communist system that ensures farmers stay rich at the expense of the rest of the economy. It's going to be pretty much the same price everywhere except stores that sell it as a loss leader, like Shoppers Drug Mart.
Well this is simply not true. You should understand that the wealth contained in dairy farming is in the farm itself and the quota license. Their income is not as much as you'd think and much of that income goes right back into the farm. Think of taxi cabs, that license used to cost $1M in downtown Toronto, but cab drivers are far from rich and a lot of their income goes towards insurance and their car.

I'm not going to argue the ignorant "communist" comment, but it's pretty clear you don't understand what communism is.
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Feb 9, 2012
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PHuth2 wrote: If you're an RFDer and you're shopping at Loblaws/Metro/Sobeys as your main store then I dunno what to say.
This week: Dempster's grains Bread $2.88 @ Basics. Sobey's price: $1.99. Do you know what to say now? Feel free to say "Bring the Sobey's flyer to Basics"...
Bring the Metro flyer also. Milk @ metro: 1 Litre Natrel, only $1.99...basics wants a lot more for the exact same milk.
Reading the flyer saves more. If Loblaws/metro/Sobey's are your nearest store, you just might be lucky enough to be saving more money than the other stores if you read the flyer first.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

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