If there were an election today, who would you vote for? Part 2

[Ojam]

"you said yourself that we shouldn't wait for the inquiry because it wasn't going to make any judgments. That sure sounds like you want somebody to tell you what to think."

I'm not the one suggesting we wait for ONE PERSON's opinion on AdScam to come out before making any decisions. I'm not the one who appears to want someone to tell me what to think.

No you're the one who doesn't want to wait because they are not going to tell you what to think, so why wait. I want to get all the facts for myself and then I'll make up my mind. Facts and opinions are not the same thing, I know sometimes that's difficult to understand, but please for the rest of us, try and figure it out.

[spidermoore]

How vigorous do you really think a Liberal government will be in prosecuting their own compared to someone else? Do you really think that a Liberal government in power would be as forthcoming with AdScam details as a non-Liberal government?

Oh to be naive again.

[asim99]

Jean Brault's testimony made the corruption perfectly clear.. and his testimony has been corroborated.

I favour an early election because:
a) I do not believe there is any information that will signficantly change the culpability of the Liberal party in the sponsorship scandal
b) Many members of the Canadian public have short attention spans and may forgive and forget the corruption if the election is held off too long.
c) I do not support some of the legislation (such as the Civil Marriage Act) that the Liberals are likely to pass if they stay in power.
d) The Liberals have lost the moral authority to govern.

wow...jean brault is credible enough for harper to rush to elections...i'd rather wait to listen to everyone than only one person whose accusations suit my pre-conceived opinions

civil marriage would have been one of the best things to have to come out of this house...no one needs government in their wedding showers

and on "moral authority"...who is the referee?

[Ojam]

How vigorous do you really think a Liberal government will be in prosecuting their own compared to someone else? Do you really think that a Liberal government in power would be as forthcoming with AdScam details as a non-Liberal government?

Oh to be naive again.

The criminal and civil inquiries are the ones that will decide if prosecution is needed, oh and way to poison the well.

[spidermoore]

"I want to get all the facts for myself and then I'll make up my mind. Facts and opinions are not the same thing, I know sometimes that's difficult to understand, but please for the rest of us, try and figure it out."

The little details of who specifically, and to what depth MAY be ferreted out by Gomery but will not change the underlying fact that the Liberal party is complicit. This doesn't mean that I believe EVERY Liberal MP was involved. This does not mean that I believe that there aren't innocent people in Liberal party membership. I sent a letter to my Liberal MP stating as such.

I fear that if we wait, the Liberal Party will have 6-8 months more time to obscure and cover up their corruption. 6-8 months more to have the average Canadian voter to grow more apathetic. 6-8 months more to delay Gomery's report so the 30-days ALSO gets delayed further. 6-8 months of political electioneering accusing their opponents of all kinds of untruths.

[asim99]

If you believe that the spirit of corruption and ill gotten goods is only a select few bad apples in the Liberal gov't, then you are mistaken. This is from the top down. The culture of an organization is a reflection of its leadership.

and conservatives are better, because?

Wild accusations about a party being war mongers...is that what you are resorting to? Come on. Morality is determined by the citizens of a country, regardless of the gov't in power. Fiscal responsibility is determined solely by the gov't, and the Liberals have proven incapable of managing that. I'm tired of sitting on the fence.

i am tired of bush-lites crying foul when someone mentions what they stand for

[Lange]

There is a difference from being willing to go to war, and being an advocate of war.

[bug]

Does it really make a difference who we vote for? They're all crooks. Politicians have been stealing taxpayers money from Day one. Power corrupts. Do you think we taxpayers will get any of that stolen sponsorship money back? Think again All the Gomery inquiry will succede in doing is costing us more money. When I see the smug looks on the faces of those crooks being called to testify before Judge Gomery, it makes my blood boil. It's all BS, and in the end all those pr*cks will get is a slap on the wrist

[gman]

and conservatives are better, because?

That is the part I don't get either. All government has corruption. The only difference is they do it smart or dumb. Party A is corrupted does not mean Party B is clean.

If Conservative waits, they have a few benefits:

1. people can make a decision based on all the "facts". No if.
2. people won't be pissed and point the finger to Conservative forcing an early election. Remember election is about emotion. Voters can be pissed by a small thing like this. Remember Patterson of Ontario.
3. Conservative could have a majority if they can wait.
4. If Conservative allows voters to forget and forgive Liberals because of half year delay, well, I will doubt Harper has the ability to lead this country.
5. Cover up? That gives even more ammunition to Conservative.
6. Harper is a new kid on the block. What did he do that make you think he is a good leader? What is on his resume? So far, I found nothing. He keeps on banding on same sex marriage issue and did nothing about other things. I am not saying same sex marriage issue is not important but there are more things that can affect Canadian. Can he multi-task and cover more bases? May be this half year can show his leadership (which I saw none so far). If Conservative is lead by Joe Clark or even Manning, I will vote for C with a heartbeat. Harper is just a better version of Days so far. Okay, a much better verison of Days.

[d_jedi]

wow...jean brault is credible enough for harper to rush to elections...i'd rather wait to listen to everyone than only one person whose accusations suit my pre-conceived opinions

1) Brault's testimony has already been corroborated by people who have/will testify at the inquiry.
2) Why would Brault lie? He facing fraud charges for his actions.. so why would he admit to a crime he didn't commit? I can understand why some of the witnesses "conveniently forgot" certain things related to the scandal - to save their own asses - but why lie to incriminate yourself?

civil marriage would have been one of the best things to have to come out of this house...no one needs government in their wedding showers

That's your opinion, and you're entitled to that. Many in the country (I think it's still about 50-50 nationwide) do not share this opinion, however.

and on "moral authority"...who is the referee?

I was stating my opinion.. recent polls have shown that the majority of Canadians also believe the Martin government has lost the moral authority, as well..

[d_jedi]

I fear that if we wait, the Liberal Party will have 6-8 months more time to obscure and cover up their corruption. 6-8 months more to have the average Canadian voter to grow more apathetic. 6-8 months more to delay Gomery's report so the 30-days ALSO gets delayed further. 6-8 months of political electioneering accusing their opponents of all kinds of untruths.

We're already seeing the scaremongering and distortion coming out from the Liberal party..

Paul Martin himself admitted that they'll use the same scaremongering tactics of the last election.. that Stephen Harper is against health care, is against child care, etc.. I've already posted an article in another thread about this..

[devious9191]

I know you think that’s an ACE of an argument you have there (since you have now posted the same thing twice) but it really isn't, it only shows your contempt for a fair trial. The facts will still be released, and that is all that is needed. Do you really need somebody to tell you what to think?

Well, you have to appreciate the conservative's position. Canadians are a lazy apathetic group by nature, and if given another 6 months to forget about the details that have been released so far from this trial, they will. Not even necessarily forget.. just rationalize a reason to keep voting those damn thieving liberals into office. I've probably heard this 'lesser of two' evils bs, 30 times over the last month, and if we wait til January, I'll probably hear it 60 times. If there's an opportunity to take the helm for the Conservatives, the time is now, while people are still angry, rather than 6 months down the road when everyone can convince themselves that it's not a big deal that their government steals from them.

[spidermoore]

"i am tired of bush-lites crying foul when someone mentions what they stand for"

I am tired of people calling the CPC, "bush-lites" when the CPC is overall further left-of-centre than the Democrats in the USA.

[devious9191]

and conservatives are better, because?

We have proof that this is the case with the Liberals, why don't you provide some that the Conservatives are also making backroom deals?

[asim99]

We have proof that this is the case with the Liberals, why don't you provide some that the Conservatives are also making backroom deals?

for one, they made deals with martin government to support their budget