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If you work downtown....post a video of a walk along King St.

  • Last Updated:
  • Nov 17th, 2018 9:31 pm
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Don't understand why there is such an opposition from letting King St run like normal non-"rush" hour times. It's such a simple solution that it's stupidity. I said all along why did they go and spend so much money painting lines, putting up barriers, removing shelters, relocating shelters etc if it was a PILOT...they just made it way harder to flex the PILOT as required like in this instance.

Also interesting that I had no idea that they removed TTC stops...kindof like stacking the deck to help show how TTC is so much better after the Pilot than before.

This PILOT project was so mishandled IMO. Should have at least waited til they had extra streetcars to start it. Take things in stages, learn from your experience, tweak it, try it again.
We're all bozos on the bus until we find a way to express ourselves...

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gr8dlr wrote:
Jan 10th, 2018 10:39 am
Don't understand why there is such an opposition from letting King St run like normal non-"rush" hour times. It's such a simple solution that it's stupidity. I said all along why did they go and spend so much money painting lines, putting up barriers, removing shelters, relocating shelters etc if it was a PILOT...they just made it way harder to flex the PILOT as required like in this instance.

Also interesting that I had no idea that they removed TTC stops...kindof like stacking the deck to help show how TTC is so much better after the Pilot than before.

This PILOT project was so mishandled IMO. Should have at least waited til they had extra streetcars to start it. Take things in stages, learn from your experience, tweak it, try it again.
I have a feeling drivers won't take the pilot project seriously if it's only implemented during certain times.

An outright ban sounds more serious than "you can't drive here from 7am to 9am", etc. Just like how a lot of drivers chose to ignore the "do not park here from x to x" or "no left turns from x to x".
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gr8dlr wrote:
Jan 10th, 2018 10:39 am
Don't understand why there is such an opposition from letting King St run like normal non-"rush" hour times. It's such a simple solution that it's stupidity. I said all along why did they go and spend so much money painting lines, putting up barriers, removing shelters, relocating shelters etc if it was a PILOT...they just made it way harder to flex the PILOT as required like in this instance.

Also interesting that I had no idea that they removed TTC stops...kindof like stacking the deck to help show how TTC is so much better after the Pilot than before.

This PILOT project was so mishandled IMO. Should have at least waited til they had extra streetcars to start it. Take things in stages, learn from your experience, tweak it, try it again.
Funny thing is the planters were causing backlogs in certain areas (cars waiting to turn on simcoe are stuck on the streetcar lane as opposed to the right lane) so actually ended up removing it. Seriously, the more they try to fix things, the more they look like little kids trying to figure out how a rubix cube works.
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The city has announced it will offer up to two hours of free parking around King Street. A $10 discount will be available to anyone using the Green P app for Green P pay and display lots and on-street parking within the pilot project area.


Mayor Tory meets with King Street business owners



Tory meets with business owners upset over King Street pilot
http://toronto.citynews.ca/2018/01/12/t ... eet-pilot/
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I can't think of a lamer stretch of king street for restaurants then that awful tourist trap row by the theatre on king. Maybe hire a chef and do something exciting with your boring menu that will get people to come. I don't hear PAI northern Thai complaining. That place fills up before lunch and dinners

Stop blaming the city for actually trying to make downtown king a better place to walk and transit through.
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GangStarr wrote:
Jan 13th, 2018 3:39 pm
I can't think of a lamer stretch of king street for restaurants then that awful tourist trap row by the theatre on king. Maybe hire a chef and do something exciting with your boring menu that will get people to come. I don't hear PAI northern Thai complaining. That place fills up before lunch and dinners

Stop blaming the city for actually trying to make downtown king a better place to walk and transit through.
Exactly. Someone that actually talks some sense. A few parked cars isn't going to help a "meh" Italian restaurant that is stuck in the past.

https://globalnews.ca/news/3962837/kit- ... t-toronto/
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GangStarr wrote:
Jan 13th, 2018 3:39 pm
I can't think of a lamer stretch of king street for restaurants then that awful tourist trap row by the theatre on king. Maybe hire a chef and do something exciting with your boring menu that will get people to come. I don't hear PAI northern Thai complaining. That place fills up before lunch and dinners

Stop blaming the city for actually trying to make downtown king a better place to walk and transit through.
Yup. So the select businesses complaining about the pilot on that section of King Street tried to get MEC to join their cause, but MEC just flat out ignored them.

I live in the heart of the King Street pilot and frankly most residents are rolling their eyes at the businesses whining about the drop in business. My friends who live in the area are actively boycotting the likes of Rob Gentile (Buca), Portland Variety, Forno Cultura, etc. who have been actively complaining about the pilot since Day 1. Belfast Love, Wilbur, Pizza Libretto, and other have been as busy as ever in spite of the cold weather (and the pilot).

EDIT:

Sorry Porchetta and Co, you've lost my patronage with your bubbling nonsense. And I'd been ordering from you guys via Ritual semi-regularly the past couple months.

EDIT 2: https://www.toronto.ca/health/dinesafe/ ... &id=124994

Hey Forno Cultira, love your chocolate olive oil cake, but between your nagging about the pilot (and yet another Dinesafe infraction) I'm going to say "That's a no from me dawq" to returning to your bakery.
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A group of business owners who oppose a pilot project that limits vehicle traffic along King Street have launched a social media campaign calling for a stop to the pilot project by using the hashtag #ReverseKingCarBan.




King St. business owner appeals to public to shut down streetcar pilot project
Local restaurant owner and transit user clash at news conference over project that has improved streetcar travel times

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2018/0 ... oject.html
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Poor precious little snowflake of a restaurant owner.
Should his business fail, he will only have himself to blame.

Flipping the bird - who would have thought that potential customers might have a hostile reaction?
Way too impersonal and frigid.
Dropping his pants and mooning people on the streets - that's the way to go.

The day in the life of the soldier fighting the war on the car...
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From TTC's point of view, they have been able to save 4-5 minutes each way, since the project came into effect. i don't know if that would be noticeable for the daily commuter, as typically streetcars are a few minutes ahead or behind, each time. Same goes for their buses, subways, etc.

There's a lot of anecdotal information, going around, without much proof. I know people who stopped going to restaurants on King St., since the project started. Then you have business owners who complain of less foot traffic. Unless statistical data is presented, then it could well be much ado about nothing.

Similar complaints have been made by business owners since Bloor street got bike lanes. We'll just have to wait and see.
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On a more positive note, there's businesses steps away from KitKat/Fred's Not Here winning over customers with honey (rather than vinegar)

Last edited by Madchester on Jan 22nd, 2018 3:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
[OP]
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At the end of the day, it's businesses that pay the taxes that subsidize the TTC and it's riders. These people have their livlihood tied up in their business and it's very easy for them to lose a ton of money. If you put yourself in their situation (the key to solving any confrontation), I'm sure people wouldn't be so angry at restaurants/business who complain.

These businesses are also the source of employment for a lot of people who work in their businesses. People shouldn't forget that,

it's not that they don't recognize that the "pilot" isn't helping people get to their work faster, they're asking for a compromise, ie tinker the pilot so that it's not all day.

The pilot was not thought out properly, they don't even have the streetcars to support the pilot in the first place so why did they rush it through the way they did. Why didn't they try less crazy things like just eliminating a lot of left turns on that route...I think it's the left turns which cause the most problem seeing as streetcars can't go around cars in the left lane. Why didn't they wait to start the pilot when the other roads weren't under construction at the same time.

There are a ton of people on that line saying they can't even get on a streetcar. From the studies, people are only saving 2-4 minutes.

For those who say the restaurants there are bad, they've been in business a long long time, so I don't think the restaurant is that bad or they would've closed a long time ago.

For those who say look at Pai or MEC who aren't complaining, ask yourself this question: would you complain seeing how people would hang people from a noose if they complained. Is that good evidence that the pilot isn't effecting them?
We're all bozos on the bus until we find a way to express ourselves...

Failure is always an option...just not the preferred one!
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Adjusting to change is not easy for many people.
Many businesses, due to lack of innovation and imagination, fail.
It is the nature of capitalism.

A smart businessman would find ways to make opportunity out of this pilot project.
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gr8dlr wrote:
Jan 22nd, 2018 3:07 pm
At the end of the day, it's businesses that pay the taxes that subsidize the TTC and it's riders. These people have their livlihood tied up in their business and it's very easy for them to lose a ton of money. If you put yourself in their situation (the key to solving any confrontation), I'm sure people wouldn't be so angry at restaurants/business who complain.

These businesses are also the source of employment for a lot of people who work in their businesses. People shouldn't forget that,

it's not that they don't recognize that the "pilot" isn't helping people get to their work faster, they're asking for a compromise, ie tinker the pilot so that it's not all day.

The pilot was not thought out properly, they don't even have the streetcars to support the pilot in the first place so why did they rush it through the way they did. Why didn't they try less crazy things like just eliminating a lot of left turns on that route...I think it's the left turns which cause the most problem seeing as streetcars can't go around cars in the left lane. Why didn't they wait to start the pilot when the other roads weren't under construction at the same time.

There are a ton of people on that line saying they can't even get on a streetcar. From the studies, people are only saving 2-4 minutes.

For those who say the restaurants there are bad, they've been in business a long long time, so I don't think the restaurant is that bad or they would've closed a long time ago.

For those who say look at Pai or MEC who aren't complaining, ask yourself this question: would you complain seeing how people would hang people from a noose if they complained. Is that good evidence that the pilot isn't effecting them?
Last I checked, commuters are taxpayers as well. And the increased man-hours and productivity made up by the decreased commuting times easily exceeds the (potential) losses for these select businesses.

This is a good read: https://www.thestar.com/opinion/star-co ... iness.html

Last year at this time, the Theatre District was home to the record-smashing run of the Broadway-bound Come From Away. This year it is not.

Not only that, but urban planner Gil Meslin (a frequently vocal cycling and transit advocate) pointed out on Twitter that the main theatres of the district were dark on more than twice as many days in 2017 as they were in 2016. Following Meslin’s lead, I checked historic performance schedules and found that the Royal Alexandra and Princess of Wales theatres’ combined 3,500 seats, for example, saw theatre showings on 83 dates between Nov. 12 and the end of 2016, versus only 58 dates in the same period in 2017. Not only that, but Meslin also points out those theatres were showing kid-oriented fare such as The Lorax this year — drawing a bring-the-whole family crowd one might guess would be less likely to go out for a meal or drinks in upscale local joints before or after the show.

This winter has also been, so far, astonishingly, dangerously cold. Any consideration of the number of pedestrians on the street has to take the weather into account, doesn’t it?



The likes of Kit Kat and Fred's Not Here have been depending on the theatre going crowd as a crutch for their mediocre offerings. And that's on top of their Chicken Little "The Sky is Falling" attitude towards any change in the neighbourhood, as documented in the article.
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shikotee wrote:
Jan 22nd, 2018 4:04 pm
Adjusting to change is not easy for many people.
Many businesses, due to lack of innovation and imagination, fail.
It is the nature of capitalism.

A smart businessman would find ways to make opportunity out of this pilot project.
Lol wtf, you want every business on king st to adjust to a lack of customers? Go away.

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