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I'm a Canada Pension Plan (CPP) expert. Any questions?

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Newbie
Jan 1, 2018
1 posts
am under 25 and full-time in university. My mother was receiving CPP Disability benefits for a number of years and I recently was approved for CPP benefits because of my age/school status/mom's condition.

My mother passed on December 31, 2017 and I have a few questions for legality sake and to avoid being liable for paying back the government:

- I was recently approved for payback amount for my my school attendance in 2015/2016 of approx $2000 due to be paid on January 4, 2018. Am I entitled to this amount since it was approved and is intended for last year and when my mother was still alive? Or will I have to pay it back to the government?

- Am I entitled to the $243 monthly amount for January 2018 (due to be deposited on the 30th)?

If anyone has any knowledge about this matter I'd greatly appreciate it to be prepared and knowledgeable about the situation and avoid potential stress and financial issues.
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Dec 27, 2009
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Ottawapost123 wrote: am under 25 and full-time in university. My mother was receiving CPP Disability benefits for a number of years and I recently was approved for CPP benefits because of my age/school status/mom's condition.

My mother passed on December 31, 2017 and I have a few questions for legality sake and to avoid being liable for paying back the government:

- I was recently approved for payback amount for my my school attendance in 2015/2016 of approx $2000 due to be paid on January 4, 2018. Am I entitled to this amount since it was approved and is intended for last year and when my mother was still alive? Or will I have to pay it back to the government?

- Am I entitled to the $243 monthly amount for January 2018 (due to be deposited on the 30th)?

If anyone has any knowledge about this matter I'd greatly appreciate it to be prepared and knowledgeable about the situation and avoid potential stress and financial issues.
I don't have an answer for you, but I just wanted to tell you how sorry I am for your loss.
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Dec 12, 2012
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Ottawapost123 wrote: am under 25 and full-time in university. My mother was receiving CPP Disability benefits for a number of years and I recently was approved for CPP benefits because of my age/school status/mom's condition.

My mother passed on December 31, 2017 and I have a few questions for legality sake and to avoid being liable for paying back the government:

- I was recently approved for payback amount for my my school attendance in 2015/2016 of approx $2000 due to be paid on January 4, 2018. Am I entitled to this amount since it was approved and is intended for last year and when my mother was still alive? Or will I have to pay it back to the government?

- Am I entitled to the $243 monthly amount for January 2018 (due to be deposited on the 30th)?

If anyone has any knowledge about this matter I'd greatly appreciate it to be prepared and knowledgeable about the situation and avoid potential stress and financial issues.
Hi - You have my sympathies also! You are definitely entitled to the retroactive amount as a child of a disabled contributor, and you will become eligible for benefits effective January 2018 as a child of a deceased contributor. You should contact Service Canada at 1-800-277-9914 to see whether they will actually require that you complete a new application as a surviving child or whether they will simply convert your benefit (it's exactly the same amount).
Jr. Member
Aug 29, 2012
170 posts
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Whitby
Hi Dogger1953,

First off, thanks for this thread.

I have a question regarding the child rearing provision regarding CPP benefits. My father is about to apply for his CPP and has reached the maximum pensionable earnings for every year he's been employed since the 1980s. Does it make any sense for him to declare this provision for the first 7 years after I was born? He had maximum pensionable earnings during this time and I don't see any benefit of doing this, if anything, it could create more harm. My mother, who isn't collecting CPP yet, didn't reach the maximum pensionable earnings until I was around 8 years old. It makes more sense for her to apply for this provision when she eventually applies for her CPP, right?

Thanks in advance.
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Dec 12, 2012
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rfdlurker4years wrote: Hi Dogger1953,

First off, thanks for this thread.

I have a question regarding the child rearing provision regarding CPP benefits. My father is about to apply for his CPP and has reached the maximum pensionable earnings for every year he's been employed since the 1980s. Does it make any sense for him to declare this provision for the first 7 years after I was born? He had maximum pensionable earnings during this time and I don't see any benefit of doing this, if anything, it could create more harm. My mother, who isn't collecting CPP yet, didn't reach the maximum pensionable earnings until I was around 8 years old. It makes more sense for her to apply for this provision when she eventually applies for her CPP, right?

Thanks in advance.
Hi Lurker - You are correct. Your father should definitely not claim the child-rearing dropout, and your mother should claim it when she applies for her CPP.
Jr. Member
Nov 14, 2011
196 posts
879 upvotes
Hi Dogger1953, Thanks for the great help and support you provide us here.

I have a question about how the partial OAS being calculated. From the OAS site (https://www.canada.ca/en/services/benef ... mount.html) :

"A partial OAS pension is calculated at the rate of 1/40th of the full OAS pension for each complete year of residence in Canada after age 18."

I am confused about the term "complete year of residence in Canada". So if someone immigrated to Canada for example in July or in November of a specific year then this immigration year should not be added in the OAS calculation and it should be dropped out. We should only count the full Calendar years after that immigration year. Is my understanding correct or is it something else?

Thanks in advance...
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Dec 12, 2012
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vegitto wrote: Hi Dogger1953, Thanks for the great help and support you provide us here.

I have a question about how the partial OAS being calculated. From the OAS site (https://www.canada.ca/en/services/benef ... mount.html) :

"A partial OAS pension is calculated at the rate of 1/40th of the full OAS pension for each complete year of residence in Canada after age 18."

I am confused about the term "complete year of residence in Canada". So if someone immigrated to Canada for example in July or in November of a specific year then this immigration year should not be added in the OAS calculation and it should be dropped out. We should only count the full Calendar years after that immigration year. Is my understanding correct or is it something else?

Thanks in advance...
Hi vegitto - No, it doesn't mean a calendar year from Jan 1st to Dec 31st, it means a complete year, or 365 days. For example, if you entered Canada on May 15th of one year, you would have a complete year of residence on May 14th of the following year. If you're adding up multiple periods, one period of 5 years, 8 months and 10 days could be added to another period of 4 years, 3 months and 21 days to have 10 complete years of residence.
Jr. Member
Nov 14, 2011
196 posts
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Dogger1953 wrote: Hi vegitto - No, it doesn't mean a calendar year from Jan 1st to Dec 31st, it means a complete year, or 365 days. For example, if you entered Canada on May 15th of one year, you would have a complete year of residence on May 14th of the following year. If you're adding up multiple periods, one period of 5 years, 8 months and 10 days could be added to another period of 4 years, 3 months and 21 days to have 10 complete years of residence.
Thanks for the clarification. This is very clear now. One more question please for OAS if you don't mind. Do you know if they count the residency years while someone was a resident on a student permit and/or a work permit before switching to be a permanent resident and then a citizen. Do these years get counted for the OAS payment or do they get dropped out? For tax purposes, the applicant in this case declared full residency in Canada during these years and filed/paid taxes accordingly.
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Dec 12, 2012
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vegitto wrote: Thanks for the clarification. This is very clear now. One more question please for OAS if you don't mind. Do you know if they count the residency years while someone was a resident on a student permit and/or a work permit before switching to be a permanent resident and then a citizen. Do these years get counted for the OAS payment or do they get dropped out? For tax purposes, the applicant in this case declared full residency in Canada during these years and filed/paid taxes accordingly.
For OAS purposes, residence is defined as "making your home in Canada and ordinarily living in Canada". It depends a little bit on the intent of the person upon their arrival and also upon what actions they took. For instance, if someone attended school here for 4 consecutive years, but hardly came with any possessions and spent most of their non-school time in their home country but later decided to remain in Canada at the end of their schooling, those 4 years of schooling might not count as residence in Canada. Another person in a similar situation might have come to Canada with all of their possession and spent all of their non-school time in Canada (working part-time if allowed) and never left Canada since their original arrival. For that person, their 4 years of schooling would almost certainly be considered as residence in Canada. Other factors such as tax status, bank accounts, driver's license, home ownership etc, etc, would also be considered.
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Mar 9, 2012
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Dogger1953 wrote: Others have already answered this question, but I'll add my support. The CPP will undoubtedly continue to evolve over the years, but I don't see it disappearing. If anything, I might expect that it will be expanded to replace more than 25% of your pre-retirement income. Of course, that would require higher contributions and/or other changes to the plan also.
And right you were.....
Why can't we all just get along?
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Mar 9, 2012
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Dogger1953 wrote: Holey smoke! When did I say that?
It was on the 2nd or 3rd page.....back 5 years ago anyway....so kudos!

Very interesting looking at all the CPP info. Now for us not retiring before 2020, even more complex with the enhanced CPP. Hope you can keep up, as you've been very helpful around here!

In your opinion, do you think the enhanced CPP will change the contributions for those on DB's? For example, I'm with OMERS, will the fall off at 65 years old change (currently .675 off of 2% per year of service)? In other words, large changes to the bridge benefit?
Why can't we all just get along?
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Dec 12, 2012
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jeff1970 wrote: It was on the 2nd or 3rd page.....back 5 years ago anyway....so kudos!

Very interesting looking at all the CPP info. Now for us not retiring before 2020, even more complex with the enhanced CPP. Hope you can keep up, as you've been very helpful around here!

In your opinion, do you think the enhanced CPP will change the contributions for those on DB's? For example, I'm with OMERS, will the fall off at 65 years old change (currently .675 off of 2% per year of service)? In other words, large changes to the bridge benefit?
Well, I just never cease to amaze me!

As for DB's that are integrated with the CPP, I would expect most of them to change but possibly not until around 2023 or 2025. The way that the enhanced CPP changes are being phased-in, it would be very complex for both employees and employers if they made changes before then. The higher contribution rate for earnings up to the YMPE will be fully implemented by 2023, and the higher YAMPE will be fully implemented by 2025. At that point DB's could lower their contribution rate on earnings up to the YAMPE, and pay a smaller portion of the pension after age 65 (ie., a bigger bridge) for any employment after that date, again for earnings only up to the YAMPE.

Let's see how accurate this prediction turns out to be?
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Mar 9, 2012
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Make sure you stick around for another 40 years to see this thing fully implemented.

What's your opinion on AVC's as opposed to RRSP's? OMERS offers this.
Why can't we all just get along?
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jeff1970 wrote: Make sure you stick around for another 40 years to see this thing fully implemented.

What's your opinion on AVC's as opposed to RRSP's? OMERS offers this.
I'm afraid that's outside my area of expertise, so I'll let others respond with their opinions.
Newbie
Jan 12, 2018
2 posts
Hi Doug ..

I retired at 55 & am currently 59 with no plans of entering the workforce again.

I currently get a survivor CPP benefit of $310/month.

I got the vanilla letter from Service Canada about my pending CPP but it was solely based on my personal CPP contributions & didn't incorporate my current survivor benefits, nor how my 10+ years out of the workforce at 65 would affect my CPP benefit.

My call in to Service Canada (on 2017November) netted the following info on my CPP monthly$ estimates:
-starting at 60, I’d get $723.22 for my CPP + $220.95 Survivor CPP for $ 944.17 Total CPP
-starting at 65, I’d get $976.96 for my CPP + $118.90 Survivor CPP for $1,095.86 Total CPP

They did confirm that if I start my CPP at 60, the survivor portion will be recalculated at age 65. But they couldn't provide an estimate what the revised survivor portion dollars would be at 65. It’s not optimal to make a decision, when I only know the $/month from age 60-to-64 but don’t know the $/month from age 65 onwards.

Based on the "start at 60 & start at 65" info, can I assume that if I start my CPP at age 60, the "my portion of CPP" will remain at $723.22 till I die and the "survivor portion of CPP" from age 60 to 64 will be $220.95 & then at age 65 onwards, the survivor portion would reduce to $118.90.

ie.
Age 60 - $723.22 for my CPP + $220.95 Survivor CPP for $ 944.17/month
Age 61 - $723.22 for my CPP + $220.95 Survivor CPP for $ 944.17/month
Age 62 - $723.22 for my CPP + $220.95 Survivor CPP for $ 944.17/month
Age 63 - $723.22 for my CPP + $220.95 Survivor CPP for $ 944.17/month
Age 64 - $723.22 for my CPP + $220.95 Survivor CPP for $ 944.17/month
Age 65 - $723.22 for my CPP + $118.90 Survivor CPP for $ 842.12/month
Age 66 - $723.22 for my CPP + $118.90 Survivor CPP for $ 842.12/month
Age 67 - $723.22 for my CPP + $118.90 Survivor CPP for $ 842.12/month
etc

p.s. I’ve purposely ignored cost-of-living increase for simplicity

Thanks in advance, Wayne
Last edited by g121g121 on Jan 13th, 2018 8:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Newbie
Jan 19, 2018
3 posts
Hi Dogger1953,
My parents are lending emigrant ...in Dec 2018 it will be full 10 years in Canada. They are 79 and 75 years old now.
When is the time for them to apply for Old Pension Plan in order to get first pension on time ?
Thanks in advance.
Newbie
Jan 12, 2018
2 posts
g121g121 wrote: Hi Doug ..

I retired at 55 & am currently 59 with no plans of entering the workforce again.

I currently get a survivor CPP benefit of $310/month.

I got the vanilla letter from Service Canada about my pending CPP but it was solely based on my personal CPP contributions & didn't incorporate my current survivor benefits, nor how my 10+ years out of the workforce at 65 would affect my CPP benefit.

My call in to Service Canada (on 2017November) netted the following info on my CPP monthly$ estimates:
-starting at 60, I’d get $723.22 for my CPP + $220.95 Survivor CPP for $ 944.17 Total CPP
-starting at 65, I’d get $976.96 for my CPP + $118.90 Survivor CPP for $1,095.86 Total CPP

They did confirm that if I start my CPP at 60, the survivor portion will be recalculated at age 65. But they couldn't provide an estimate what the revised survivor portion dollars would be at 65. It’s not optimal to make a decision, when I only know the $/month from age 60-to-64 but don’t know the $/month from age 65 onwards.

Based on the "start at 60 & start at 65" info, can I assume that if I start my CPP at age 60, the "my portion of CPP" will remain at $723.22 till I die and the "survivor portion of CPP" from age 60 to 64 will be $220.95 & then at age 65 onwards, the survivor portion would reduce to $118.90.

ie.
Age 60 - $723.22 for my CPP + $220.95 Survivor CPP for $ 944.17/month
Age 61 - $723.22 for my CPP + $220.95 Survivor CPP for $ 944.17/month
Age 62 - $723.22 for my CPP + $220.95 Survivor CPP for $ 944.17/month
Age 63 - $723.22 for my CPP + $220.95 Survivor CPP for $ 944.17/month
Age 64 - $723.22 for my CPP + $220.95 Survivor CPP for $ 944.17/month
Age 65 - $723.22 for my CPP + $118.90 Survivor CPP for $ 842.12/month
Age 66 - $723.22 for my CPP + $118.90 Survivor CPP for $ 842.12/month
Age 67 - $723.22 for my CPP + $118.90 Survivor CPP for $ 842.12/month
etc

p.s. I’ve purposely ignored cost-of-living increase for simplicity

Thanks in advance, Wayne
I ended up engaging CPP expert Doug (http://drpensions.ca/) for his full-blown “for fee” CPP analysis\estimates.

Superb service.

He had a question, he phoned me to discuss.

Doug dealt with all the complexities in my particular CPP situation. He addressed every specific question\request I had. Less than 2 day turn around start-to-finish. I received a report fully explaining how he got to his numbers & a full cumulative CPP\survivor benefit for age start years 60-thru-70. I couldn’t be more pleased & highly recommend his service for anyone with CPP complexities. I now have the info to make a knowledgeable decision. It’s a shame that my situation was too complex for Service Canada to provide this info.

p.s. Doug also found an error in my current Survivor benefit. It should be ~$30/month higher & they owe me ~$2K in past under-payments. I’ve filled out the correction form Doug sent me & sent it off to Service Canada for correction.
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Dec 12, 2012
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MikeSims wrote: Hi Dogger1953,
My parents are lending emigrant ...in Dec 2018 it will be full 10 years in Canada. They are 79 and 75 years old now.
When is the time for them to apply for Old Pension Plan in order to get first pension on time ?
Thanks in advance.
Hi Mike - I would recommend that they apply around June 2018. They may still not get their first payment on time though, because Service Canada may want to confirm in writing that they are still residing in Canada as of Dec 2018.

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