Interesting Ahmadinejad article

[lip1978]

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...5-2703,00.html

HE'S tiny, wears a perfectly groomed beard and waves to his supporters with both hands clasped high in the air, prize-fighter-style - and now Jakarta's university students have declared Mahmoud Ahmadinejad "the world's most charismatic leader".
...
He's incredibly charismatic - if you had to compare him to someone, it would be (Indonesia's founding president) Sukarno," said one student. "His speeches are very nationalistic."

"There's not a leader in the world like him," declared another. "I am so proud."
...
Ahmadinejad's addresses to the two audiences - which included a repeat of recent rants against Israel - were full of the nationalist rhetoric that has characterised his appearances since winning office almost a year ago.

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Wow, a nationalistic leader with lots of Charisma with an axe to grind against the Jewish state. Do I really need to say what I'm alluding to?

[steve.m]

[xKagex]

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...5-2703,00.html

HE'S tiny, wears a perfectly groomed beard and waves to his supporters with both hands clasped high in the air, prize-fighter-style - and now Jakarta's university students have declared Mahmoud Ahmadinejad "the world's most charismatic leader".
...
He's incredibly charismatic - if you had to compare him to someone, it would be (Indonesia's founding president) Sukarno," said one student. "His speeches are very nationalistic."

"There's not a leader in the world like him," declared another. "I am so proud."
...
Ahmadinejad's addresses to the two audiences - which included a repeat of recent rants against Israel - were full of the nationalist rhetoric that has characterised his appearances since winning office almost a year ago.

--------------------------------------------
Wow, a nationalistic leader with lots of Charisma with an axe to grind against the Jewish state. Do I really need to say what I'm alluding to?

Yes, please do. It's obvious you think the fact that he's a charismatic leader is somehow anti-semitic, but I think we need a little more than just subtlety. Perhaps comparing him to Hitler will help?

I for one am tired of the holocaust being used as a moral anchor that somehow justifies everything done by Israel, while we have to keep our heads bowed in eternal shame. If anything, the Jewish people should empathize with the hatred, fear and persecution that muslims have to endure today.

[lip1978]

Yes, please do. It's obvious you think the fact that he's a charismatic leader is somehow anti-semitic, but I think we need a little more than just subtlety. Perhaps comparing him to Hitler will help?

Wow, talk about having fun with other people's words. I really thought the call to destroy the state of Israel would label him as anti-Semetic. The charismatic part was just an interesting parallel to one of the characteristics attributed to Hitler.

Also, that pic is funny

[Rehan]

Yes, please do. It's obvious you think the fact that he's a charismatic leader is somehow anti-semitic, but I think we need a little more than just subtlety. Perhaps comparing him to Hitler will help?

You mean like the Bush administration is doing?
http://www.newyorker.com/fact/conten.../060417fa_fact
"Bush and others in the White House view him as a potential Adolf Hitler, a former senior intelligence official said. “That’s the name they’re using. ... "

If anything, the Jewish people should empathize with the hatred, fear and persecution that muslims have to endure today.

It's puzzling, isn't it?

[lip1978]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darfur_conflict

The Darfur conflict is an ongoing conflict in the Darfur region of western Sudan, mainly between the Janjaweed, a militia group recruited from local Arab tribes.

Although the large majority of resultant refugees are non-Arab black Africans fleeing Arab Janjaweed attacks, [3] there are also Arab victims and non-Arab perpetrators.

-------------------------------
Many Jewish organizations have been calling for action against this genocide for years, using the Holocaust as the lesson.
Please let me know where a large Muslim population is being systematically eliminated, and I'll read into it, and see if the same condemnation is needed.

[rai_dei]

If anything, the Jewish people should empathize with the hatred, fear and persecution that muslims have to endure today.

I cant see how, but umm okay...

[Rehan]

Many Jewish organizations have been calling for action against this genocide for years, using the Holocaust as the lesson.
Please let me know where a large Muslim population is being systematically eliminated, and I'll read into it, and see if the same condemnation is needed.

Who said it was the same?

Simple-mindedness (al-Qaeda = Taliban, anti-Zionism = anti-Semitism, etc.) is very counter-productive... the world is not so simple that something is either the same as another thing or totally opposite to the other thing. There is lots of grey between the black and white.

[lip1978]

I'd still maintain that a world leader, espcially one from a theocracy, who calls for the destruction of Israel as anti-Semetic, just as I would call a leader who says Palestinians don't deserve their own state as being anti-Palestinian.
Judaism and Israel are linked. That doesn't exclude them from criticism, but a call for it's destruction cannot be held with the idea of political borders alone.

[wali]

lip1978, are you being paid by the state of Israel or some Jewish group? It seems you're in this board to remind us, RFD memebers, about Iran and its president. I think you're wasting your time cause most of us don't give a f... stop with all these 'OMG!!! IRAN HATES ISRAELl!!!' threads.

*shrugs*

[Rehan]

lip1978, are you being paid by the state of Israel or some Jewish group? It seems you're in this board to remind us, RFD memebers, about Iran and its president. I think you're wasting your time cause most of us don't give a f... stop with all these 'OMG!!! IRAN HATES ISRAELl!!!' threads.

*shrugs*

FWIW, I think lip1978's a lot more balanced than some of the other posters (on both "sides")...

[lip1978]

I just thought it was an interesting article on how he was considered a 1 country force, and it seems like his influence is growing. It's certainly interesting in a geo-political context, and yes, I found there to be certain interesting parallels. But I guess you're not interested in that.
If it doesn't interest you, why bother reading the thread? Or did you read the article at all?

[xKagex]

I just thought it was an interesting article on how he was considered a 1 country force, and it seems like his influence is growing. It's certainly interesting in a geo-political context, and yes, I found there to be certain interesting parallels. But I guess you're not interested in that.
If it doesn't interest you, why bother reading the thread? Or did you read the article at all?

I agree with you in some aspects, but just because there is a charismatic leader calling for Israel's borders to be redrawn (that's how I understand "the destruction of Israel" anyway) doesn't mean he can be compared with anyone else. It's a very volatile situation in the Middle East, which is definately not being helped by the current international attitude towards islam. In my view, the Iranian president is doing everything in his power to find a diplomatic solution, and he's not the one I'm worried about when it comes to 'throwing the first stone'.

[asim99]

on using hitler references, i'd recommend reading:


http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/content.php?pg=3
THE HOLOCAUST INDUSTRY: REFLECTIONS ON THE EXPLOITATION OF JEWISH SUFFERING (Second Edition)


lip, i hope you realize it's a lame thread

[poedua]

I agree with you in some aspects, but just because there is a charismatic leader calling for Israel's borders to be redrawn (that's how I understand "the destruction of Israel" anyway) doesn't mean he can be compared with anyone else. It's a very volatile situation in the Middle East, which is definately not being helped by the current international attitude towards islam. In my view, the Iranian president is doing everything in his power to find a diplomatic solution, and he's not the one I'm worried about when it comes to 'throwing the first stone'.

Actually I can see your point.

But, the problem is, that many of Ahmadinejad's comments are being interpreted by the West in divergent ways ( after translation into English ). For example, as Rehan and I have debated before , his call for Israel to be " wiped off the wipe " may in fact be a Farsi translation that is limited to the absolution or relocation of borders as you suggest. Or, as some might interpret it, it might possibly be seen as a call for the mass murder of Jews and the destruction of the state of Israel - i.e on the basis of " wiped off the wipe " slogans that are draped over missles on parade in Tehran. Sometimes the context ( i.e missles ) of a message is a relevant as the message itself.

On your statement.." the Iranian president is doing everything in his power to find a diplomatic solution " . I'd simply say that this assumption is still very much a matter of debate. I for one, would only accept that premise if he had sent a letter and subsequent letters via the Swiss to Bush and kept it away from the forum of international opinion by making it's contents public. Effective diplomacy - or union negotiating for that matter ( i.e CAW/ NHLPA ) - doesn't involve backing the other party into a corner by citing past contradictions or misdeeds IMO. That sort of tactic's only purpose is to garner public sympathy and support for one's negotiating postion - it's not an effective tactic to reach a mutually agreeable diplomatic solution IMO.