Interesting Article -- Unemployed 29yo seeking a first job

[Clement]

3) Pharmacy

if you're willing to work in the north/remote areas, you'll start 70-80k a year easy if not better. in gta? probably not as likely. i think you'd be lucky to start at 60k honestly.

waterloo is graduating like ~100 (or maybe more? i don't keep up with their program) a year, u of t graduates ~240 a year... i doubt many of those people are going north or moving out of province. therefore a huge supply and not so great a demand when you have a shoppers or rexall at every street corner that's already staffed by full timers.

and given the latest developments (drug reforms and government/generic issue etc) i really don't feel very good about the future of pharmacy in ontario at all. especially with pharmd degrees, the people who are holding bscphm's are gonna be in some sort of disadvantage, if you're considering US hospital jobs all of which will require a pharmd. there are also a bunch of issues like the ontario pharmacists association (our supposed "advocacy" group) working so slowly to achieve change - a lot of the western provinces already compensate pharmacists through multiple revenue streams like offering professional opinions, doing refills for chronic patients without going through MDs, administering flu shots, etc... NONE of which are happening in good ol' Ontario anytime soon. there's no way independent pharmacies can survive without these revenue streams, they can't sell cosmetics or pop and chips with impunity like shoppers or walmart can (unless they're a prescription factory that pumps out 300 Rx's a day or something). and if independent pharmacies go down (which are 2 out of 3 of every pharmacy in ontario), then suddenly the job market for pharmacists just go from bad to worse.

i'm saying this as a pharmacy student halfway through the old program.

[Elfer]

Wtf? I've come to terms with the fact I probably won't be rich in my lifetime, and I'm fine. We all want that lifestyle,

For reals? Money is honestly a pretty low priority for me. In terms of a career, I'm a lot more interested in finding something that's challenging and intellectually stimulating. There are engineering jobs out there that I would gladly do for less than 36k/yr, even if I lived in Toronto.

The only real motivation for me to make a higher salary is that I want to have kids, which I understand is insanely expensive. Having a nice car, big house, eating/drinking out a lot are not big draws for me.

[Rainne]

So you are calling me a dumbass? and nasty? You don't even know me. And hick? far from it.

Heres a few things you need to consider.
You are only right about the fact that in the trades, the employer must invest in you. And that is it, it is not bad or stupid advice, it is nowhere near anything like a bank loan, nothing like that. They only invest maybe 10-15% of their time into you (or their one journeyperson).

You need to sell yourself. Like in the resume for a job, you need to sell yourself. I had a comfy government job, quit that cause it was not too exciting, and then got into the trades. In that process of one week, I got 5 jobs that wanted me to start right away, they didnt even call my references, and I got to pick and choose what I wanted (and actually I didn't take any of those 5 in that first week). It is definitely a workers market, businesses are looking for competent workers.

Now the employer that hires you on as an apprentice, he can fire you within a week, a month, a year, its not like a bank loan. He hires you in the hopes you stay for a long time, you get hired on in hopes he will keep you atleast 4 years (for the j-man ticket, or 3 in some trades).

The way it works, is the society is getting lazier and lazier. More and more people are pushing for cushy jobs, getting student loan, working less, and hoping to achieve more. To get a degree from the university used to be something grand (from what I hear elders say) but right now, every John Doe gets some degree. The degree is just a piece of paper, and in more and more society's eyes, it doesnt mean anything.

Here is their thought process:
Your an engineer/statistitian/teacher/linguist? I really dont care what that piece of paper says, cause its just a piece of paper. What can YOU do for ME?

So, you can call me a dumbass, nasty hick, or whatever, doesn't really matter to me at all, cause you don't know me. Trades are very rewarding and I don't think there is a better job. There is such variety that you will find something you love, and you dont have to sit all day infront of a screen doing boring things. Down the line in the future maybe you want to find a deskjob once your old and crippled, but leave that for later.
Now go and wow all those employers with your skills! (in your resume, write about hobbies, extra cirriculars, interesting things that make people go "wow, this guy/girl sounds amazing!")

The problem with trades, arts and music is you need real aptitude and actual skill..

You can teach someone to sing, but only so far..

It's like sales, your results SHOW

[Kuurgen]

I do feel for all these university grads looking for work, they've been bamboozled by guidance counselors, professors and the media. All telling them that university is the only way to prosperity. What a load . . . . .

Plumber, electrician, welder, pipe fitter, steam fitter, carpenter, millwright, controls, HVAC, etc. Pick one. Have someone else PAY YOU to learn the skills that lead to a rewarding career.
.

I had a chance to talk to a millwright who had his own business when I was on vacation in Cuba, I came away with the impression that this guy was doing extremely well for a fellow in his twenties.

[WontonTiger]

Alright, well you keep living in your fantasy world, and I'll continue living in the real world where me and others like me make well above average in a nice air conditioned office, while the lliberal arts majors can continue working at TD call centres and starbucks for minimum wage. Take care.

I just wanted to say that you are really cool. Coming on here with that air of arrogance, and that elitist attitude of yours is just so awesome. Dude, you're my hero, you are so cool.

I wish everyone could be as successful as you are. When did you make your first million? Was it before the age of 22? I can only dream of being as popular or successful as you.

If these people would get jobs and stop making excuses for themselves, or wait until they've actually worked before making comments on the work world and trying to put me down, they would probably see that my point of view comes from a rational, everyday normal person who knows what it takes to get a job.

Quote of the day. If you are a

rational, everyday normal person who knows what it takes to get a job.

Then I fear for the human race.

You go out of your way to slag people, and to try and raise up your own credentials and accomplishments. It's really sad to see people act this way on the internet.

[JK400]

WontonTiger, all I'm doing is mearly stating facts about people's situations or conditions of society. It's not my fault if the people on here are so bottom of the barrel that stating facts about their lives are interpreted as insults. Really, people like me are the victims in all this. I didn't ask for this forum to be populated by the bottom 5% of society.

[cbr600]

I didn't ask for this forum to be populated by the bottom 5% of society.

and yet here you are in this forum..

[Syne]

The only thing that matters on an message board, where facts about your life cannot be verified, are your words.

Here, it doesn't matter how much money you have, or how prestigious your career is. What matters, the only currency you have, are your words. If people don't like what you have to say or how you say it, then on this medium, you are poor as poor can be.

RFD is a society within a society.

[ConsoleWatcher]

I don't understand how University grads can complain how there are no jobs available at all. Unless you live, for example, in a small town where the local factory just closed, there are bound to be jobs available. Granted, they may not be "career-type" jobs, but they are nevertheless jobs where you can build work experience and develop skills.

I've always believed, and seen, that arts degrees are (usually) not going to get someone a career job simply by virtue of having the degree, but that it does help individuals who have developed skills/knowledge in particular fields advance into career-type jobs. For example, I worked with two university grads as a security guard in an office setting. The experiences that they gained working with security systems helped them to progress to career-type jobs (one was hired as a security administrator, and the other got hired as a well-paid "inhouse" guard at a university). Neither would have likely obtained those jobs without their degree, or without the experience their prior guarding jobs gave them.

[jedi1648]

This unemployment of 29 yrs olds grads can be blamed by (a) economy, (b) himself, and (c) his/her parents.

Economy: This is nothing u can do about it, but still companies are hiring though not as many as in good economy.

Himself: He picked the wrong field to study. Wrong in the sense that it is not of high demand (like biology, philosophy, etc), or an are that he didnt like or do well later at university, resulting in poor marks, or didnt get relevant work experience during the summer months, or that he does not want to get higher studies or switch to a more lucrative field of study like law, or education, or master degree.

Parents: Sometimes this is the most important factor, that the parents accommodate his/her "bad" behavior by not advsing them about their field of study, by financially support their university education, by allowing them not to gain work experience during the summer, and by financially support them not to work after graduation, etc. If this financial lifeline is cut off, I bet they will find a job harder and faster in order to survive.

[Mulder and Scully]

The only way to provide adequate positions for qualified job seekers (from an econ. perspective) is to open up more positions by lowering wages (and therefore productivity).

Then, lower wages = lower standards of living = lower costs of living
lower wages = less productivity = more openings
Which then the economy will end up with the same output as before.

You're explaining equilibrium, but Economics also says that in the long run the standard of living of the population will increase and continue to increase. Secondly, the equilibrium point does change. Again, equilibrium increases (or shifts up and right in your textbook) in the long run.

If the economy ends up with the same output as before like you say, then how come the aggregate supply and aggregate demand curves in 2012 aren't the same as they were in 1912? Because in the long run everything increases.

[spike1128]

if you're willing to work in the north/remote areas, you'll start 70-80k a year easy if not better. in gta? probably not as likely. i think you'd be lucky to start at 60k honestly.

waterloo is graduating like ~100 (or maybe more? i don't keep up with their program) a year, u of t graduates ~240 a year... i doubt many of those people are going north or moving out of province. therefore a huge supply and not so great a demand when you have a shoppers or rexall at every street corner that's already staffed by full timers.

and given the latest developments (drug reforms and government/generic issue etc) i really don't feel very good about the future of pharmacy in ontario at all. especially with pharmd degrees, the people who are holding bscphm's are gonna be in some sort of disadvantage, if you're considering US hospital jobs all of which will require a pharmd. there are also a bunch of issues like the ontario pharmacists association (our supposed "advocacy" group) working so slowly to achieve change - a lot of the western provinces already compensate pharmacists through multiple revenue streams like offering professional opinions, doing refills for chronic patients without going through MDs, administering flu shots, etc... NONE of which are happening in good ol' Ontario anytime soon. there's no way independent pharmacies can survive without these revenue streams, they can't sell cosmetics or pop and chips with impunity like shoppers or walmart can (unless they're a prescription factory that pumps out 300 Rx's a day or something). and if independent pharmacies go down (which are 2 out of 3 of every pharmacy in ontario), then suddenly the job market for pharmacists just go from bad to worse.

i'm saying this as a pharmacy student halfway through the old program.

Can't be help. Minorities usually go into those professional fields, but they all want to stay in the GTA. I guess they no speaky English, can't be help. I wouldn't think if they offer me a premium to move up north. It has to be substantially more than my friends who are in GTA for the same field. If I have to move to some town in the middle of nowhere, I better be the highest pay out of my peers.

Pharmacy is quite done. There is too much introverts monkesy who don't understand their role as pharma is to do their medical type job as well as customer service. I know a few pharmacy grads and they all work in a pharmacy either as a pharmacist or associate. They feel they are entitled not to do some of the work, because there are techs and sales people around. Get stressed out over not having help. Well, they get pay the big bucks, then better to sweat it off big.

I hope you don't speak bias as like other pharmacy people. We had that pharmacy thread before, who pharmacy student feels they are so above everyone else. I really doubt it's that hard, my pharmacy friends who breezed through school like as it's nothing (always partying and doing other non pharmacy things) while in the program. They started to sweet it on the field, because they know they don't know their stuff very well, thinking they might kill someone by giving the wrong medication to patients.

[JK400]

So, someone with 4 posts bumped a 3 month old thread just to slag me? Pathetic.

[Heero01]

So, someone with 4 posts bumped a 3 month old thread just to slag me? Pathetic.

Was worth the necro to "slag" your ***** cause ur a ***** .

[G.O.B.]

Just want to chime in about this nonsense stat of 2/3 of engineers not reaching registration. Many companies do not care if you're a P.Eng or not and place far higher value on your skills and experience. Some of my most respected engineering colleagues (20-40 years in the industry) have never bothered becoming a P.Eng. It is not some kind of huge accomplishment that every competent engineer must get.

The stat itself means very little because it certainly does not indicate that 2/3 of graduating engineers fail to have successful engineering careers.