invoice/wiggle room for BMW Certified 3 series?

[baboo2004]

Hi everyone.
I was wondering if anyone knows a friend/or from personal experience the margin I can get off an 3 series.
With financing at 1% for 60 months, it seems like a very good time to buy a BMW.

Both are certified from BMW Town and Country Toronto
2006 325i sedan: $ 32,900 - 49,000 km
2007 323i sedan: $ 33,900 - 25,080 km


I know I can probably get around $1500 off but what is the BEST that I can do?

Thanks
Simon

[baboo2004]

no one?

[Sprite_TM]

are these demo cars?

[PCDawg]

Certified BMW cars are used cars brought back into the dealership from either trades, buybacks or lease upgrade returns.

Be wary, though. Certified doesnt mean the car is perfect. I knew of a friend that had a certified BMW from T&C that had front end damage which was not noted on file when he brought the car. Only after almost 4 months of fighting with BMW Canada did he get back the depreciated value of the car. He only found out when he brought the car to a private garage to get the oil changed and the mechanic told him of the front end work that was done.

Its really hard to discuss how much you can get off. Just check autotrader and cars of the same year and mileage should be your target price.

[baboo2004]

I believe they are short 12-24 months lease and not demos

are these demo cars?

[baboo2004]

Hmm, good to know- will keep that in mind but there isn't much that can be done if there they say there is no record/ no accidents etc .... they're 1 year old cars so I can only trust their word?

Certified BMW cars are used cars brought back into the dealership from either trades, buybacks or lease upgrade returns.

Be wary, though. Certified doesnt mean the car is perfect. I knew of a friend that had a certified BMW from T&C that had front end damage which was not noted on file when he brought the car. Only after almost 4 months of fighting with BMW Canada did he get back the depreciated value of the car. He only found out when he brought the car to a private garage to get the oil changed and the mechanic told him of the front end work that was done.

Its really hard to discuss how much you can get off. Just check autotrader and cars of the same year and mileage should be your target price.

[ES_Revenge]

Hmm, good to know- will keep that in mind but there isn't much that can be done if there they say there is no record/ no accidents etc .... they're 1 year old cars so I can only trust their word?

Well if you go by the word of most used car salespeople no car has ever been in an accident, every car is "loaded", and most cars are "mint" LOL. That should tell you something right there. Bottom line is, investigate the car, have an inspection done, etc.

Minor accidents aren't a huge deal, but most CPO programs guarantee/warranty that there haven't been major accidents causing frame damage or write-off level expenses. These cars you're looking at are likely fine but still don't trust anyone's word, especially not that of a used car salesperson!

[brendonp]

I know I can probably get around $1500 off but what is the BEST that I can do?

It's really a combination of your barganing skills and how much the stealership wants to move the car. I picked up a certified series 330Ci a few years back for 3k off their asking price with a bunch of additionals thrown in (re-touched all rims, resprayed a few rock chips in the front, etc, etc).

I've found you shouldn't be paying too much more then a non-BMW dealer's asking price (ie maybe 1k more?) for an equivalent model.

Take note of what PCDawg said - the vehicle I bought was just returned to the dealer and wasn't actually listed as a CPO; I haggled on price for a while then asked that it be sold as a CPO - since it was only 2 years old the salesmen said "no problem", without having to actually even have the vehicle checked out. Given that I'd have another 4 years of warranty, I wasn't too worried...

[Pete_Coach]

Firstly there is really no invoice price on a used car. Too many factors involved. Secondly, you need to bargain for the vehicle and it really depends how hungry the salesman and the dealer are. Get prices from several sources and walk in with them. Be sure your comparisons are valid, they are not dumb. You need to be a step smarter and stick to your guns. Do not be afraid to walk away, this is the key to any position in the bargaining process.
BMW will only "certify" a car that it knows it's history. They will not or will hesitate to certify a car that as never seen a dealer for repairs or maintenance. They do not want to guarantee the status of a vehicle that could be poorly maintained.
Lastly, the influx of cheap American cars (to dealers as well as private buyers) and the strong Canadian dollar and BMW dropping prices themselves, the value of used BMW's has taken a dramatic downturn. My own car dropped almost 5K from what was anticipated (using last years figures) and is so close to the residual it was not worth it, so I decided not to buy it out and am getting a new car. I think both your examples are at least 3K too high before you even begin to negotiate.
Oh, I forgot, the reason for 1% interest on used is that they have way too many used cars, everyone is turning in the cars instead of buying them out and a brand new 2008 323 is only 35K at 3.9%. BMW just has too many cars for sale right now.

[baboo2004]

so you're suggesting $2500-$3000 off I assume?

Firstly there is really no invoice price on a used car. Too many factors involved. Secondly, you need to bargain for the vehicle and it really depends how hungry the salesman and the dealer are. Get prices from several sources and walk in with them. Be sure your comparisons are valid, they are not dumb. You need to be a step smarter and stick to your guns. Do not be afraid to walk away, this is the key to any position in the bargaining process.
BMW will only "certify" a car that it knows it's history. They will not or will hesitate to certify a car that as never seen a dealer for repairs or maintenance. They do not want to guarantee the status of a vehicle that could be poorly maintained.
Lastly, the influx of cheap American cars (to dealers as well as private buyers) and the strong Canadian dollar and BMW dropping prices themselves, the value of used BMW's has taken a dramatic downturn. My own car dropped almost 5K from what was anticipated (using last years figures) and is so close to the residual it was not worth it, so I decided not to buy it out and am getting a new car. I think both your examples are at least 3K too high before you even begin to negotiate.
Oh, I forgot, the reason for 1% interest on used is that they have way too many used cars, everyone is turning in the cars instead of buying them out and a brand new 2008 323 is only 35K at 3.9%. BMW just has too many cars for sale right now.

[brendonp]

so you're suggesting $2500-$3000 off I assume?

I can't speak for Pete, but I'd say at least that much - I got more than that off 4 years ago, when the dollar was weaker vs. USD and used BMWs were holding their price that much more (few US examples were available as well).

[Pete_Coach]

so you're suggesting $2500-$3000 off I assume?

I would say so yes, at least $2500. I can tell you for sure that a 2005 325i executive edition with premium package and 35,000 kms on it has a residual value of a touch over $25k. Anything above that is excessive profit back to the dealer, in my opinion.
BMW has become something like De Beers, the diamond people. They control the flow of cars and therefore the prices. Don't get me wrong, I have owned and driven many cars and I think the BMW is probably the best drivers car around.

[Drew_W]

The rate is 1.0% on E46 bodies, not on the newer E90 bodies (that's 2.9% last I checked a few weeks ago).

[Drew_W]

I would say so yes, at least $2500. I can tell you for sure that a 2005 325i executive edition with premium package and 35,000 kms on it has a residual value of a touch over $25k. Anything above that is excessive profit back to the dealer, in my opinion.
BMW has become something like De Beers, the diamond people. They control the flow of cars and therefore the prices. Don't get me wrong, I have owned and driven many cars and I think the BMW is probably the best drivers car around.

He's looking for an E90 body by the looks of it.....

[Drew_W]

Oh, PS....*PLEASE* go and drive the 323i. The engine has zero pickup and it makes the car seem very heavy and sluggish. A Honda Civic has more pep and zip. Yes, it's about preference, but I know that I'd be super annoyed with the 323i if I had to drive it every day, and I don't by all means consider myself a performance enthusiast.