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Ivey MBA job statistics this bad?

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Dec 8, 2007
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BoogieWilliams wrote: Calling it a massive red flag is poor choice of words and eliminating candidates for an entry level job just cause they did an MBA is wrong. After all it is the schools that promote the hell out of their own programs without knowing what the market needs are for MBAs (or choosing to ignore the needs) because all they care about in the end is stuffing their own pockets with a desperate student's tuition. Where can students find the right guidance nowadays when they are fed marketing bs from every rock they turn. At the same time MBA graduates that don't have a lot of experience need to lower their nose and start from the bottom.
No, its right. Very right.

They're telling you how it is. Right, wrong ... its reality.

Limited work experience, or work experience in some super jr role, and then an MBA = suspect or tossed resume.
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Oct 31, 2012
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ironbrah wrote: Was that top school Harvard? Or yale?
Harvard, and "It was worth every penny" was what he said. He probably paid the international student rate too since he is Canadian, but then again his family is well off so not too hard for him to do so.
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Oct 31, 2012
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Valdes wrote: This couldn't be further from the truth... it's just the opposite nowadays. Employers have long realized that hiring a person off of education alone is an expensive liability.

If your friend was successful, it had nothing to do with his MBA. Unless you are in a regulated professional field, at no point in your career will your salary ever be restricted by your education.
His promotional had a contributing part because of his MBA (Not only because of it). When his department had an open spot for promotion, one of the difference between him and his co workers was the MBA. Sure performance was a part of it, but his boss said that all else the same, his credentials had a part in their decision.

His field does not require him to have an MBA, but it helped. He is also very smart and well rounded person, so that helped as well.

Another of my friend got an MBA, but didn't help his career much. He has an MBA, but chose jobs which is not related to his field, which he worked for many years. He is not well liked at the office. Introvert. So, yes sometimes MBA is not the solution for everybody.
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Aug 7, 2011
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elephantrider wrote: His promotional had a contributing part because of his MBA (Not only because of it). When his department had an open spot for promotion, one of the difference between him and his co workers was the MBA. Sure performance was a part of it, but his boss said that all else the same, his credentials had a part in their decision.

His field does not require him to have an MBA, but it helped. He is also very smart and well rounded person, so that helped as well.

Another of my friend got an MBA, but didn't help his career much. He has an MBA, but chose jobs which is not related to his field, which he worked for many years. He is not well liked at the office. Introvert. So, yes sometimes MBA is not the solution for everybody.
Harvard MBA is different. How are your friends faring with Canadian MBA degrees?
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Respects wrote: Harvard MBA is different. How are your friends faring with Canadian MBA degrees?
Another friend with Schulick and another Rotman, same thing can't keep the recruiters away.
I want to add that they have great work experience under their belt as well, picked the right companies to work for in the right departments and field. They are always changing jobs every 1-2 years so that they diversify their experience and knowledge.

Other friend went to a less known MBA program in Ontario, not that great.

If someone have MBA and just expect recruiters to knock on their door offering them jobs then it ain't going to happen. I think that is why some people have problems. They think once they have MBA then they can sit back, and the hard work is behind them.
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elephantrider wrote: Harvard, and "It was worth every penny" was what he said. He probably paid the international student rate too since he is Canadian, but then again his family is well off so not too hard for him to do so.
Private colleges in the US don't typically differentiate between "international students" and non-international students. Only public colleges do. And even the public university I went to, they waived it for me because I was on scholarship.

It's the biggest misconception among Canadians. You pay the same as an American.
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Oh, really? I don't know. Either ways, I can't afford to move to the US to do my MBA currently.

It is something to think about for my kids though. Thanks for the inside tip : )

I am thinking of something local. Looking at Rotman.
Corner3 wrote: Private colleges in the US don't typically differentiate between "international students" and non-international students. Only public colleges do. And even the public university I went to, they waived it for me because I was on scholarship.

It's the biggest misconception among Canadians. You pay the same as an American.
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Sep 28, 2013
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elephantrider wrote: Harvard, and "It was worth every penny" was what he said. He probably paid the international student rate too since he is Canadian, but then again his family is well off so not too hard for him to do so.
lol, a harvard MBA is worth more than every penny. if you had a chance to go to Harvard and you aren't in a high-paying, high-potential job right now, you should be willing to pay double their tuition. Going to Harvard would change your life forever.

Rotman isn't a bad school by any means, but I'd strongly advise you to do your due diligence about their hiring numbers in the field you like. Finance hiring across Canada is terribly slow right now.....I can't speak to other fields (consulting hiring is pretty good from hearsay), so just do your research. :)
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Sep 28, 2013
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vanpharm wrote: What sources did you use for this information? Regardless, seems like pretty lucrative work if one can find it.
sources from my friends who went into those companies/fields and from personal experience. The jobs are great, but look beyond the headline number; consultants work around 60 hours a week on average and travel all the time and i-bankers average around 90 hours a week. The work isn't easy (though far from rocket science) and you have to have both great people and technical skills. The level of competition is more than commensurate for how desirable the job is.
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Sep 22, 2011
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Yes, this is a misconception that I always have to clear up with my current colleagues. I work for a crown corp right now in a financial field. I did an MA (completely unrelated to business/finance/accounting) at an Ivy in the states and landed my current job through an internship + internal posting. It was an expensive program even after the partial funding I got but I DO NOT regret it. Most of my colleagues are in their mid to late 20s looking to do an MBA/CFA/CMA/CPA combination. Funny thing is, they don't want to do an MBA at at unknown school. That is, they want to do it at Queens, Rotman, Ivey or Desautels. I say if you're going to be paying 100k+ for an MBA that is an awful lot of money to pay just to be like everyone else. Why not go to the states? They cite cost and they have a point now especially with the declining CAD. I say to hell with it. Go for it. You're young once and get to do one MBA. Get into , CBS, Stern, Wharton. Don't be a chicken *&%^ and just apply. Own the debt. It will reap rewards if you're smart about it. Then you won't be one of the many "I could have gone to Booth but decided to stay in (insert Canadian city here) because (Insert excuse here)." Almost every time I'm asked where I went to school, the response is that.

My sibling attended one of the aformentioned institutions and quite a few Toronto based firms recruited Canadians exclusively from these US schools. They didn't even look at Canadian MBAs.

I'm not saying Canadian MBAs don't have value. Some do and it depends how it is used and the individual's situation. But come on, over 100 grand? That is ridiculous. NO Canadian MBA is worth that much unless your employer is paying for it.

And from what I've heard, DO NOT do a part-time MBA unless you are looking to stay at the same firm and it is paid for. They are looked down on and schools that open these types of programs really hurt their brand by doing so. From what I've seen, good business schools will not allow part-time accept anybody programs and Canadian business schools are pretty bad for this.
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elephantrider wrote: Oh, really? I don't know. Either ways, I can't afford to move to the US to do my MBA currently.

It is something to think about for my kids though. Thanks for the inside tip : )

I am thinking of something local. Looking at Rotman.
Yeah, as I mentioned to someone else on here you can PM me if you have specific questions.

Also, a lot of Americans can't "afford" US private tuition per se. Who the hell can drop $40,000 a year in just tuition? But they take out the loans. It's a risk Europeans and Canadians are unfamiliar with, the idea is crazy to them. Then again, their own Canadian and European companies want these graduates bad.

Think of going to MBA or Law school in the US as joining as frat. It's cult like. You're graduating with a network. The only real difference is with top notch schools like Harvard you're network will be worldwide, with mid-tier schools regional (in the State they're in). But they're all cult like. It's why when you go to the US, if you're in San Francisco you see Berkeley sweaters everywhere, when you go to LA USC and UCLA T-shirts are around, when you go to Texas you see UT Austin shorts. You don't see UBC t-shirts everywhere in Vancouver or UofT sweaters on kids and parents everyday. It's because you're paying for a brand, you're essentially joining a club/community.

These clubs tend to be expensive.

I have people who drop $80,000+ on a Lexus or BMW. In an effort to look "status" to people they don't know. In my opinion, you might as well take the loan out and spend that much to get something that will make you look status to people who are actually important and have money, and will base hiring decisions on.
I'm At The W, But I Can't Meet You In The Lobby, Girl I Gotta Watch My Back, Cuz I'm Not Just Anybody, I Seen Em' Stand In Line, Just To Get Beside Her, That's When We Disappear, You Need GPS To Find Her, Oh That Was Your Girl? I Thought I Recognized Her."
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Sep 28, 2013
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cauthon7 wrote: Yes, this is a misconception that I always have to clear up with my current colleagues. I work for a crown corp right now in a financial field. I did an MA (completely unrelated to business/finance/accounting) at an Ivy in the states and landed my current job through an internship + internal posting. It was an expensive program even after the partial funding I got but I DO NOT regret it. Most of my colleagues are in their mid to late 20s looking to do an MBA/CFA/CMA/CPA combination. Funny thing is, they don't want to do an MBA at at unknown school. That is, they want to do it at Queens, Rotman, Ivey or Desautels. I say if you're going to be paying 100k+ for an MBA that is an awful lot of money to pay just to be like everyone else. Why not go to the states? They cite cost and they have a point now especially with the declining CAD. I say to hell with it. Go for it. You're young once and get to do one MBA. Get into , CBS, Stern, Wharton. Don't be a chicken *&%^ and just apply. Own the debt. It will reap rewards if you're smart about it. Then you won't be one of the many "I could have gone to Booth but decided to stay in (insert Canadian city here) because (Insert excuse here)." Almost every time I'm asked where I went to school, the response is that.

My sibling attended one of the aformentioned institutions and quite a few Toronto based firms recruited Canadians exclusively from these US schools. They didn't even look at Canadian MBAs.

I'm not saying Canadian MBAs don't have value. Some do and it depends how it is used and the individual's situation. But come on, over 100 grand? That is ridiculous. NO Canadian MBA is worth that much unless your employer is paying for it.

And from what I've heard, DO NOT do a part-time MBA unless you are looking to stay at the same firm and it is paid for. They are looked down on and schools that open these types of programs really hurt their brand by doing so. From what I've seen, good business schools will not allow part-time accept anybody programs and Canadian business schools are pretty bad for this.
I’m curious as to which Canadian firms hire only US MBAs? Do you mean in a specific field?

Mckinsey, Bain, and Boston Consulting all hire from Canada for Canada but also hire a lot from INSEAD. Ditto the Canadian i-banks for hiring from Canada. The only Canadian firm I can think of that doesn’t hire Canadian MBA’s is Onex….but Onex is a great job even for a Harvard grad.

Are Canadian MBAs over 100k now? That's pretty crazy. I did one (on a partial scholarship), but it was the only Canadian school I considered applying to and it wasn't 100k at the time.
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angrybanker wrote: lol, a harvard MBA is worth more than every penny. if you had a chance to go to Harvard and you aren't in a high-paying, high-potential job right now, you should be willing to pay double their tuition. Going to Harvard would change your life forever.

Rotman isn't a bad school by any means, but I'd strongly advise you to do your due diligence about their hiring numbers in the field you like. Finance hiring across Canada is terribly slow right now.....I can't speak to other fields (consulting hiring is pretty good from hearsay), so just do your research. :)
Yes, I was told that Finance has been a bit slower this year compared to last year by someone else as well.
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Yeah, your right. My cousin in the states still buys and wears his clothing from his Uni even though he graduated like 30-40 years ago and lives on the other side of the country of where he attended school. He also still cheers on his college's basketball team too and follow the school news.

Agree with you 110% on the cars comment, they are the worst investment and only devalues. I still don't get people who buy expensive cars and live in a condo/townhouse (exception if they need it for work eg. real estate/sales person).
Corner3 wrote: Yeah, as I mentioned to someone else on here you can PM me if you have specific questions.

Also, a lot of Americans can't "afford" US private tuition per se. Who the hell can drop $40,000 a year in just tuition? But they take out the loans. It's a risk Europeans and Canadians are unfamiliar with, the idea is crazy to them. Then again, their own Canadian and European companies want these graduates bad.

Think of going to MBA or Law school in the US as joining as frat. It's cult like. You're graduating with a network. The only real difference is with top notch schools like Harvard you're network will be worldwide, with mid-tier schools regional (in the State they're in). But they're all cult like. It's why when you go to the US, if you're in San Francisco you see Berkeley sweaters everywhere, when you go to LA USC and UCLA T-shirts are around, when you go to Texas you see UT Austin shorts. You don't see UBC t-shirts everywhere in Vancouver or UofT sweaters on kids and parents everyday. It's because you're paying for a brand, you're essentially joining a club/community.

These clubs tend to be expensive.

I have people who drop $80,000+ on a Lexus or BMW. In an effort to look "status" to people they don't know. In my opinion, you might as well take the loan out and spend that much to get something that will make you look status to people who are actually important and have money, and will base hiring decisions on.
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Mar 4, 2015
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It's really tough today to find a job. The market isn't what it use to be. I guess the get educated and you will find a job doesn't apply the same way it use too.
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elephantrider wrote: Yeah, your right. My cousin in the states still buys and wears his clothing from his Uni even though he graduated like 30-40 years ago and lives on the other side of the country of where he attended school. He also still cheers on his college's basketball team too and follow the school news.

Agree with you 110% on the cars comment, they are the worst investment and only devalues. I still don't get people who buy expensive cars and live in a condo/townhouse (exception if they need it for work eg. real estate/sales person).
Are you sure they are dropping that kinda of $$? Today you can lease a BMW or Lexus for not much more than a honda? To lease a honda it can be $300-$400 a BMW is between $600-$1200 depending on the model.
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2009M5 wrote: Rotman or Ivey?
Rotman. Toronto>London, ON
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mastercool wrote: i think the real problem is you get so many people who are just good at getting good grades but aren't really good at anything else in life.
That is the case with graduates from any program. Many (NOT ALL) high achievers are complete social incompetents. They don't see it themselves and think they're great, but it very rare indeed to find someone who can score well in school, and still be normal or even very skilled in the art of conversation and manipulation.
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elephantrider wrote: I still don't get people who buy expensive cars and live in a condo/townhouse (exception if they need it for work eg. real estate/sales person).
If a person has a budget of Xxx amount of dollars they want to spend a month, maybe some people choose to have an adequate home and an exceptional vehicle? S*** some people spend more time in their vehicle than they do at home, especially if they travel a lot for business, etc.

Different strokes for different folks.
The best way to become ordinary is to follow the advice of ordinary people.
Unless you've actually tried something, your comments are virtually meaningless.
Condemnation before investigation is the highest form of ignorance

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