Ivey and Waterloo

[rey1867]

So, Im entering grade 12 and am pretty nervous

I want to go to waterloo for accounting because the program is so reputed and fast tracks the path to become a CA

However, Im a bit scared that I will end up not liking accounting. I know high school accounting and university accounting are different.

So, I thought that if I got admission into both Ivey and Waterloo, I could cover my risks. If you get early acceptance from Ivey, you are guaranteed a place in their biz school in your 3rd and 4th year provided you maintain a 80% average.
On the website it also says that I can enter through a different university if I get the early admission (Academic Excellence Opportunity).

So, if I could maintain an 80 average at the Public accounting program in waterloo, I would always have the chance to change programs and go to Ivey at the end of my second year.

Im pretty sure that I will receive admissions from both universities because I have already completed 2 grade 12 courses (English and Comp. Eng.) I got 89 in English and 95 in Comp. eng. Am hoping to get a high mark in comp sci too and will hopefully increase my overall average with the help of easy courses (families, societies).

So, I was wondering if my plan is any good and would like some feedback from other members over here.

I was specifically interested in knowing how hard maintaining an 80 average in the public accounting program.

Any suggestion, criticisms or recommendations will be greatly appreciated.

[poorwingman]

UW is focused primarily on acc't. Although acc't and obtaining the CA designation, in particular, opens many doors, it is a long and painful process. It is not the highest paid position in business either.

Business is a broad field and Ivey will teach you other aspects that UW will not: marketing, operations, hr etc...

If you plan to go to UW for acc't for 2 yrs before going to Ivey, consider that it will be much harder to get that 80 avg @ UW than in a general arts program at another school.

Some things to consider about UW
- not everyone gets a job at a big 4 firm (however, you can always swith to a big4 firm later in your career. just note that it isn't a given)
- you have to go to coop (i.e. you can't spend your summers travelling or doing fun stuff)
- if you pursue the MAcc degree, you will be exempt from the CKE and SOA

Some things about ivey
- pretty much all ivey grads that want big4 jobs, pretty much get it.
- you will have the opportunity to seek jobs in non-accounting related fields
- you will have more flexibilty to decide how you will spend your summers
- UWO is way more fun. Don't forget that uni is sposed to be about the experience as well.

You should check out the campuses and spend a weekend with friends that are there. There is a huge difference in the culture at the different schools. Ultimately, I think Ivey gives its grads more options and I think it's the better choice if you're not sure if accounting is for you.

edit:
there's a lot of discussion on RFD about obtaining the CA designation.
http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/s...d.php?t=291951
Post 6 and 10 of this thread also support the idea that you should go to an elite general business program if you can get in since it opens other doors other than just the CA path

[adehbone]

ok...what you are planning to do is very tough.....lets get some things clear first off...before you take your 2 maths....and accounting.....your 95 in comp eng and comp sci in HS are ****.......you need to ace your maths and accounting...i mean atleast a couple 90s....if you want acceptance to both AEOatUWO and AFMatUW..

getting an 80 in first 2 years at UW afm, is a given if you get less than 75% first yr they will kick you out...send you packing..............................which a guy on my floor first year felt with a 74.6% avg...there is a whole bunch of ppl with 90avgs looking to get into AFM in 2nd yr badly....so when they say 75, they mean 75!

second year is harder but I have friends who got 80+ rather easily.....you will also have one co-op term by then...alot of ppl got big4 jobs at their first co-op even...but it is rather hard...

a guy in Math/CA this year, got into Ivey, he wants to be an IBer....dont know if he accepted....getting into Ivey is whole lot more than 80avg for 2 years....alot of extra stuff.......i know a guy who made the leap from Mac commerce with an 84avg so its possible.....remember you gotta meet the BUS257 credit too

afm is a great option if you wanna do accouting...but the program is very tough and competitive......i would say hands down Ivey is the better program and atmosphere....but if you love accounting so much and CA.....afm is the program for you

[rey1867]

so, even if I get the AEO at Ivey, I may not be given admission into HBA in the 3rd and 4th years if my extra curicullars arent up to par ????

Also, I know that my comp eng and comp sci marks are useless, but they do pad up my average.

Am hoping for a 90 in calculus and data, but my previous math mark was in the seventies.

Its not like I love accounting as Im too young to really know that. I just thought about all the professions that I can go to once in business. If I do the HBA at Ivey, I will either become an accountant, Investment Banker or go into marketing. There are other fields, but I dont list them as they are generally lower paying. From what I have hear, marketing is the hardest to find a job in because everyone does it.

If I become an accountant, I can look forward to companies working me till death until I get my CA. Investment Banking is tough because you gotta work crazy hours.

So, I figured that if I took the easy route to become a CA and then I could go into Investment Banking where the pay is much higher.

I am leaning towards Ivey, but it is still hard for me to decide as I dont want to end up regretting my decision if I ultimately do go into accounting and have to do all those tests.

Also, if I go to Ivey, I will miss out on coop and my resume wont be as good if I go to Waterloo.

Im not saying that Im right, Im just saying what I have heard. You guys obviously know a lot more than me.

And one more question. Since the HBA program is only 2 years long, is it much harder than the programs at Schulich or Queens ??

[coolspot]

Im pretty sure that I will receive admissions from both universities because I have already completed 2 grade 12 courses (English and Comp. Eng.) I got 89 in English and 95 in Comp. eng. Am hoping to get a high mark in comp sci too and will hopefully increase my overall average with the help of easy courses (families, societies).

It's not only about the marks! Just remember to have some extra-curricular activities and references to pad your resume.

What I mean by extra-curricular is stuff like voluteering at community organizations and not playing video games :p

Waterloo's CA program is a good choice - unless you end up to hate accounting, I don't think you'll regret it. If you do hate accounting, you can transfer to something else - CS, Math Business, or to another university.

[sumfunny]

If you get AEO you have to do your first 2 years at western. Otherwise you can reapply for year 3,4 of Ivey from waterloo

[00dimsum00]

Also Waterloo CA program is a good choice - unless you end up to hate accounting, I don't think you'll regret it. If you do hate accounting, you can transfer to something else - CS, Math Business, or to another university.

I totally agree..i just graduated from the CA program in Waterloo. I cant say I love accounting - but I dont regret going through it because I'm pretty set career wise (though i HATED 2nd/3rd year), its a good background to have since you can apply your business knowledge to many things, cant go wrong with it.

Go to Waterloo if you dont like it transfer to Ivey (had a person in my year do that..and he's extremely happy as well). But if you're really unsure if what you want to do, go to Ivey and test out the waters..cause the CA program is very specific, you wont get a chance to take marketing/advertising type classes

[rey1867]

If you get AEO you have to do your first 2 years at western. Otherwise you can reapply for year 3,4 of Ivey from waterloo

thx for clearing that up for me

btw, do you go to ivey ??? If so, could you please just elaborate a bit more on the work load that they give you in the hba program and how many hours you have to study every week.

I totally agree..i just graduated from the CA program in Waterloo. I cant say I love accounting - but I dont regret going through it because I'm pretty set career wise (though i HATED 2nd/3rd year), its a good background to have since you can apply your business knowledge to many things, cant go wrong with it.

Go to Waterloo if you dont like it transfer to Ivey (had a person in my year do that..and he's extremely happy as well). But if you're really unsure if what you want to do, go to Ivey and test out the waters..cause the CA program is very specific, you wont get a chance to take marketing/advertising type classes

If you dont mind me asking, what field are you working in right now. You probly still have a few months remaining before you get your CA designation, but after that will you go to investment banking or auditing, etc.

The thing is, I want money (like everyone else) and I like handling/managing money. Its hard to explain why, but I have never liked sciences. I got okay marks, but I never enjoyed them.

The payment charts show that accountants earn the 2nd most behind doctors, but one of my cousins told me that those figures are inaccurate because a lot of accountants go and do investment banking.

So, if I do graduate from the public accounting program, what exactly will I do????

Also, could you just explain how many hours per week you studied at waterloo.

Also, I know that Waterloo is the best for accounting, but is Ivey the best business school in Canada (Ive heard their career placement services is the best).

And one last question, after you have 4 yrs of experience, you can apply for the CFA. Will that designation mean a lot if you dont have any investment banking experience ???

[poorwingman]

i think you need to understand that getting a CA is not the easy way into i-banking. getting a CA is painful and treacherous with many road blocks that you may or may not overcome the first time around.

if you're really serious about i-banking, you should just go to ivey and try to get an i-banking job right away. ivey's academics as well as its network of alumni and recruiters will help you find better employment than Rotman or Schulich where the programs are so big

[rey1867]

i think you need to understand that getting a CA is not the easy way into i-banking. getting a CA is painful and treacherous with many road blocks that you may or may not overcome the first time around.

if you're really serious about i-banking, you should just go to ivey and try to get an i-banking job right away. ivey's academics as well as its network of alumni and recruiters will help you find better employment than Rotman or Schulich where the programs are so big

I know that getting the CA is hard, but provided I graduate from the Waterloo program, several obstacles are removed from my path.

Im not really interested in investment banking, but I have heard that most CAs do eventually go into i-banking because of the money.

[trusoulja2g]

Having just graduated from undergrad commerce and going the CA route...I think it's a no brainer to go to the most prestigious school you can get into. There is a huge difference when it comes to recruiting.

Going to Ivey will get you into Big 4 very easily - just as easy if not easier than Waterloo. The only advantage at Waterloo is that you get your CA about a year quicker and basically have a year's head start since you start as a senior after 5 yrs uni. But that's at the sacrifice of a better, more well rounded business education.

If you're in it for the money, Ivey's for you. IB and MC pay much more than CA. Of course, they're much more cometitive to get into and the hours are much worse. The previous post almost implies the CA is harder than IB...definitely not the case. But I agree that CA is not a route to being an I-banker. Getting into IB is about going to the right school (in Canada, that would be Ivey), being near the top of your class, and getting recruited.

So IMO, if you have the opportunity to go to Ivey, go. If you end up choosing the relatively "easy" career (CA instead of IB/MC), it'll be just as easy getting a Big 4 job there.

[poorwingman]

Im not really interested in investment banking, but I have heard that most CAs do eventually go into i-banking because of the money.

that's a lie. most would indicate >50%.

as a CA student i don't think that's true. i think a minority go into i-banking.

a CA designation doesn't guarantee a career in i-banking. in order to get into i-banking, (typically) a newly qualified CA would move into the transaction advisory or M&A department of his/her big4 firm or at another big4 firm to gain some experience before moving into i-banking. not everyone has an opportunity to move into said departments.

If you're in it for the money, Ivey's for you. IB and MC pay much more than CA. Of course, they're much more cometitive to get into and the hours are much worse.

i don't know about that. ivey kids still partied a lot. they still loved it and had a great time.

it seems like UW is really stressful and not as fun.

[crowdpuller]

i'd suggest ivey...this was a no brainer!

[rey1867]

that's a lie. most would indicate >50%.

as a CA student i don't think that's true. i think a minority go into i-banking.

a CA designation doesn't guarantee a career in i-banking. in order to get into i-banking, (typically) a newly qualified CA would move into the transaction advisory or M&A department of his/her big4 firm or at another big4 firm to gain some experience before moving into i-banking. not everyone has an opportunity to move into said departments.


i don't know about that. ivey kids still partied a lot. they still loved it and had a great time.

it seems like UW is really stressful and not as fun.

What do you plan on doing once you finally get your CA ???

Due to my lack of knowledge, I really dont know what I will do once I get the CA designation.

Also, dont the Big 4 recruit from Waterloo as well as Ivey ?????? Im assuming you go to waterloo, if so how is the competition like ??? Are there a bunch of 90s ?? Also, is co op guaranteed to you after 1st year ??

[poorwingman]

What do you plan on doing once you finally get your CA ???

Due to my lack of knowledge, I really dont know what I will do once I get the CA designation.

Also, dont the Big 4 recruit from Waterloo as well as Ivey ?????? Im assuming you go to waterloo, if so how is the competition like ??? Are there a bunch of 90s ?? Also, is co op guaranteed to you after 1st year ??

i haven't decided what to do once i get the CA

I'm not a UW student but i'm familiar with many ppl who have gone through that program.

Big4 firms recruit from UT (St. george, utm, utsc), UW, UWO, Queen's, York and a little at brock. i haven't heard of a mac commerce grad in acc't but that might be just my experience and circle of friends.

Co-op is not guaranteed at UW. My ballpark guess from my friend's experience is that 50% of the class might get big4 jobs during co-op. This isn't a big a deal because you can easily switch from a small firm to a big firm after you pass the UFE.

FYI, if you go to Ivey, you should be able to get a summer internship. Students at other schools get summer internships but it seems like Ivey kids have an easier time of getting good summer jobs than biz students at other schools.

A general comment about UWO vs. UW. RFD is pretty pro-UW. If you look at other threads such as back to school or co-op's advantages, you'll see that many ppl are pro-UW and go to UW. In contrast, the general consensus in this thread so far is for you to go to Ivey if you have the opportunity. I think that shows the value of a an elite general business degree compared to a focused accounting degree.