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Laying Patio Stone Question!!

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Member
Oct 3, 2005
452 posts
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Ottawa
Reviving an old thread.

I am using quikrete walkmaker to make a patio using a concrete mold

http://www.quikrete.com/athome/walkmaker.asp


I dug up 6 inches of clay from my backyard and was planning to use Landscape fabric then 2 inches of screening, tamp and then the rest of the screening, tamp then start using the mold to make the concrete stones. I came across this thread about HPB, I have about 3 yards of screening, dug up 400 sqft x 6 inches.

So I still need more screening or HPB or anything else.

Do you recommend I continue with screening then put HPB on top? where should I put the landscape fabric? I really appreciate the help.
Deal Addict
Jan 19, 2004
2170 posts
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Toronto
Having just completed my backyard.

I debated using concrete molds or simply paver. I chose the latter due to efficiency.

Here what I did.
1) Dug out 8"
2) Laid commercial grade fabric (bought from landscaping company directly)
3) 6" of HPB
4) pavers
5) polymeric sand

Total area was around 850 Sq ft or so...
Member
Oct 3, 2005
452 posts
32 upvotes
Ottawa
I agree about efficiency but cost is my main concern.
Dragon120 wrote: Having just completed my backyard.

I debated using concrete molds or simply paver. I chose the latter due to efficiency.

Here what I did.
1) Dug out 8"
2) Laid commercial grade fabric (bought from landscaping company directly)
3) 6" of HPB
4) pavers
5) polymeric sand

Total area was around 850 Sq ft or so...
Member
Oct 3, 2005
452 posts
32 upvotes
Ottawa
Anyone have any tips on what to do ? should I order more screening? or order HPB? for the rest of the 3 inches I need to cover?
knight wrote: Reviving an old thread.

I am using quikrete walkmaker to make a patio using a concrete mold

http://www.quikrete.com/athome/walkmaker.asp


I dug up 6 inches of clay from my backyard and was planning to use Landscape fabric then 2 inches of screening, tamp and then the rest of the screening, tamp then start using the mold to make the concrete stones. I came across this thread about HPB, I have about 3 yards of screening, dug up 400 sqft x 6 inches.

So I still need more screening or HPB or anything else.

Do you recommend I continue with screening then put HPB on top? where should I put the landscape fabric? I really appreciate the help.
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Jun 12, 2007
20776 posts
6618 upvotes
London
Bigger down first, then smaller

The main advantage of hpb is that you don't have to pack/compact it, so it makes a solid base but it's pricey

For the bottom/base layer, you can use drainage gravel which is 3/4" crushed limestone instead of hpb. Its bigger pieces of gravel with really sharp angular edges. You have to pack it down so that the sharp edges lock together to form a solid base.

The very top course/layer is 1" deep of limestone screening which is like really course sand. Its light enough so it makes it easier to adjust/level your patio stones

I don't think you need more than 3-4 inches deep for a walkway, but others can comment. Don't use all limestone screening for the base because it doesn't drain as well, so it holds more water. The water freezes in winter so it heaves more and your patio stones will go out of level
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Nov 29, 2011
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l69norm wrote: Bigger down first, then smaller

The main advantage of hpb is that you don't have to pack/compact it, so it makes a solid base but it's pricey

For the bottom/base layer, you can use drainage gravel which is 3/4" crushed limestone instead of hpb. Its bigger pieces of gravel with really sharp angular edges. You have to pack it down so that the sharp edges lock together to form a solid base.

The very top course/layer is 1" of limestone screening which is lighter and makes it easier to adjust/level your patio stones

I don't think you need more than 3-4 inches deep for a walkway, but others can comment. Don't use limestone screening for the base because it doesn't drain well, so it heaves more in winter and your patio stones will go out of level
Agreed with this post. Only difference is I would recommend 6-8" for walkways or patios. I definitely would not do a base of just screening alone. Build up 6" of 3/4" crushed stone with 2" of screening on top, all compacted in 2" layers. If you like the HPB route, I would highly advise to make sure it is contained on all sides, it can wash away very easily. I guess you could top the HPB with screening, but definitely HPB down first.

What have you done to date?
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Member
Oct 3, 2005
452 posts
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Ottawa
Alright so I guess I will have to order 3/4 crushed stone to use as a base. then top with screening.

I have dug up 6 inches right now. the base is VERY hard clay since its in milton. So as per your advice

1) Lay construction grade lawn fabric
2) add 2 inches of crushed 3/4 stone
3) Tamp
4) add another 2 inches of crushed 3/4 stone and tamp
5) add 2 inches of screening
6) level
7) Tamp
8) proceed using the quikrete walkmaker and pour concrete in the molds
9) sweep polymer sand into joints and mist
10) done

Does the above make sense?
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Nov 29, 2011
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Gets my seal of approval.
knight wrote: Alright so I guess I will have to order 3/4 crushed stone to use as a base. then top with screening.

I have dug up 6 inches right now. the base is VERY hard clay since its in milton. So as per your advice

1) Lay construction grade lawn fabric
2) add 2 inches of crushed 3/4 stone
3) Tamp
4) add another 2 inches of crushed 3/4 stone and tamp
5) add 2 inches of screening
6) level
7) Tamp
8) proceed using the quikrete walkmaker and pour concrete in the molds
9) sweep polymer sand into joints and mist
10) done

Does the above make sense?
The worst part about prison was the Dementors. - Michael Scott

My Basement Reno Project
Deal Addict
Nov 21, 2007
3433 posts
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Scarborough
knight wrote: .....
I have dug up 6 inches right now. the base is VERY hard clay since its in milton. So as per your advice

1) Lay construction grade lawn fabric
2) add 2 inches of crushed 3/4 stone
3) Tamp
4) add another 2 inches of crushed 3/4 stone and tamp
5) add 2 inches of screening
....
10) done
Isn't the lawn fabric meant mainly to deter weed growth? If so then isn't it placed too deep at 6 inches? I don't think that weeds can travel 6 inches up...If so then it should be placed between the gravel and the screening.

BTW, your lucky day, Lowes' having sale on:

50lb bag of HPB at $14, next bag at $7
20kg play sand at $5, next bag at $2.50

Based on the above costs, can one stretch by reducing the inches of the HPB with play sand? Say a couple of inches right after the gravel and then a thin one inch of HPB at the top? I think it would work....let us know, u the guinea pig. :)
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Nov 29, 2011
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Samwfive wrote: Isn't the lawn fabric meant mainly to deter weed growth? If so then isn't it placed too deep at 6 inches? I don't think that weeds can travel 6 inches up...If so then it should be placed between the gravel and the screening.
Polymeric sand is best defence against weeds. I've read that weeds grow from the surface.

The fabric best serves to prevent the 3/4" gravel and dirt from mixing. On the same note, HPB is supposed to be great at this on its own.
The worst part about prison was the Dementors. - Michael Scott

My Basement Reno Project
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Jul 25, 2006
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aprofetto wrote: Polymeric sand is best defence against weeds. I've read that weeds grow from the surface.

The fabric best serves to prevent the 3/4" gravel and dirt from mixing. On the same note, HPB is supposed to be great at this on its own.
Actually, in the place of the lawn fabric he should be using synthetic geo membrane and not regular landscaping fabric.
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SKYMTL wrote: Actually, in the place of the lawn fabric he should be using synthetic geo membrane and not regular landscaping fabric.
Fair point.
The worst part about prison was the Dementors. - Michael Scott

My Basement Reno Project
Member
Jul 4, 2007
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I would consider going with 1" screening and add an extra 1" more to the gran A base. Not sure about the forms vs patio stones, but seem pretty similar. Paver instructions will say 6"+ for a clay base.

I suggest buying a 1" rigid pipe or board and use that as a screed guide to level the 1" screening. Remember to slope the excavated soil, base and the screening away from your house.

Also not sure about forms vs patio install, but for pavers, you typically tamp after installing the pavers and use something on the pavers to protect them against damage from the plate compactor. For slabs, you would lightly tamp with a hand tamper and fill back to the screed guide, and not use the plate compactor on them. What does the install instructions say for this product?
Deal Addict
Jan 19, 2004
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Toronto
Samwfive wrote: Isn't the lawn fabric meant mainly to deter weed growth? If so then isn't it placed too deep at 6 inches? I don't think that weeds can travel 6 inches up...If so then it should be placed between the gravel and the screening.

BTW, your lucky day, Lowes' having sale on:

50lb bag of HPB at $14, next bag at $7
20kg play sand at $5, next bag at $2.50

Based on the above costs, can one stretch by reducing the inches of the HPB with play sand? Say a couple of inches right after the gravel and then a thin one inch of HPB at the top? I think it would work....let us know, u the guinea pig. :)
FYI: THE Lowe's deal is actually, "high performance pavement", not "high performance base".
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Oct 27, 2006
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Samwfive wrote: BTW, your lucky day, Lowes' having sale on: 50lb bag of HPB at $14, next bag at $7
Even if it were HPB (Dragon120 says the sale is for something else), that's still pricey for what most people need. How many pounds in a yard? I got a few yards of HPB delivered and there's no way I'm transporting that in my little sedan. It would take sooooo many trips.
aprofetto wrote: Agreed with this post. Only difference is I would recommend 6-8" for walkways or patios. I definitely would not do a base of just screening alone.
Why would you recommend minimum 6" for walkways? Walkways are transitory in nature and don't take the same kind of beating a patio would. If done properly then it should remain level and steady for a long time.

HPB is meant to be used by itself, as its compaction level is around 96% and doesn't even require compaction.
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Nov 21, 2007
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Dragon120 wrote: FYI: THE Lowe's deal is actually, "high performance pavement", not "high performance base".
Oooopsy.

I have seen the HPB recently tho. A few houses down got done; think porridge.
Deal Addict
Jan 19, 2004
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Samwfive wrote: Oooopsy.

I have seen the HPB recently tho. A few houses down got done; think porridge.
As mentioned, I used HPB as my base and would never go back to the tradional method (gravel, stamp, level, sand, stamp, crede)...HPB is well-worth the money (actually not that much more expensive), in my case.

HPB is self-compacted.
Member
Oct 3, 2005
452 posts
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Ottawa
OK I don't mind buying HPB the problem is I also have 3 yards of screening already. So in order for me to use it, it looks like I should get 3/4 crushed stone first.
Member
Oct 3, 2005
452 posts
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Ottawa
Where can I get synthetic geo membrane? I have never heard of this
Member
Oct 3, 2005
452 posts
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Ottawa
I am going to be doing this this weekend, so if anyone has any input before i order Materials please chime in


here is the plan still


Alright so I guess I will have to order 3/4 crushed stone to use as a base. then top with screening.

1) Lay construction grade lawn fabric
2) add 2 inches of crushed 3/4 stone
3) Tamp
4) add another 2 inches of crushed 3/4 stone and tamp
5) add 2 inches of screening
6) level
7) Tamp
8) proceed using the quikrete walkmaker and pour concrete in the molds
9) sweep polymer sand into joints and mist
10) done

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