Sports & Recreation

Leafs Talk (2018/19): Hype train...on aboard

  • Last Updated:
  • Oct 16th, 2018 11:22 am
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sharpshooter88 wrote:
Oct 10th, 2018 11:03 am
If it's a long term deal for 7 then I think Dubas lost in this battle. Willy needs to be under 7 since it's really looking like Marner can get around 9.
a 61 point 22 year old player in 2018-2019 isnt going to be signing for 8 years, at only 6 mil.

There a few problems.

1. He hasnt maxed out potential. If hes at 61 points now, he should easily reach 70 at his peak

2. 7 mil in 2019 is a lot of money but 7 mil in 2027 will be quite cheap for a 70 point guy (Tavares is 80+ points for 11 mil for comparison, AND he left money on the table to come to Toronto)

3. this 8 year contract eats into his prime years and teams will be willing to pay 8 mil at that point (his free agency years), or more (depending on his play)

7 mil is sensible for both, a bit strenuous for Toronto in the short term.

Marner might be in the 8-9 range. Matthews i "hope" will be only 11 to fit in with Tavares. Those 0.5 to 1 mil type "giveaways" from top guys will be able to pay for a better defence, and they're well aware of that. As is management.
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Buggy166 wrote:
Oct 10th, 2018 11:27 am
a 61 point 22 year old player in 2018-2019 isnt going to be signing for 8 years, at only 6 mil.

There a few problems.

1. He hasnt maxed out potential. If hes at 61 points now, he should easily reach 70 at his peak

2. 7 mil in 2019 is a lot of money but 7 mil in 2027 will be quite cheap for a 70 point guy (Tavares is 80+ points for 11 mil for comparison, AND he left money on the table to come to Toronto)

3. this 8 year contract eats into his prime years and teams will be willing to pay 8 mil at that point (his free agency years), or more (depending on his play)

7 mil is sensible for both, a bit strenuous for Toronto in the short term.

Marner might be in the 8-9 range. Matthews i "hope" will be only 11 to fit in with Tavares. Those 0.5 to 1 mil type "giveaways" from top guys will be able to pay for a better defence, and they're well aware of that. As is management.
I don't expect Willy to be at 6, but it has to be under 7, maybe 6.5 or close to that. There's incentive for Willy to get a 8 year contract because the CBA might get renegotiated in two years and max term gets capped at something lower like 5 years. If Willy's trying to hedge this by locking in now for 8 years, he's got to give some money back to get this.

If it's 7 a season, I'm not giving him 8 years.
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sharpshooter88 wrote:
Oct 10th, 2018 12:10 pm
I don't expect Willy to be at 6, but it has to be under 7, maybe 6.5 or close to that. There's incentive for Willy to get a 8 year contract because the CBA might get renegotiated in two years and max term gets capped at something lower like 5 years. If Willy's trying to hedge this by locking in now for 8 years, he's got to give some money back to get this.

If it's 7 a season, I'm not giving him 8 years.
if its $7 a season, the only way it would make sense is for the contract to be maxed out. Toronto would lose tremendously if they gave him $7 a year, & for less years. The later the contract goes, the bigger the return for Toronto.
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kramerz80 wrote:
Oct 9th, 2018 9:08 am
We don't have the cap space for an "elite" goalie. Andersen will be fine, he's never been our problem.

As for Sparks, that was a scary sight to see and hopefully not a sign of things to come.
I'd say Andersen is an issue, but its not like we can replace him anytime soon. Andersen looks like Hasek out there but without all the great saves. Freddy often flops around out there and he seems to not know where the puck is alot of the time too. McElhinney when he played looked much more calm, stable and consistent. If McBackup was 10 years younger, I'd easily rather have him than Andersen right now.
kramerz80 wrote:
Oct 10th, 2018 9:01 am
The longer he waits the worse for him IMO. We're scoring in droves and Kapanen can easily take his spot on the Matthews line.
Kaps is playing well with Matthews right now, but lets see if he can do it for a prolonged period of time before we declare him a good replacement for Nylander. Also even when Willie hopefully comes back soon, why not move Kaps over to LW and see what a Kapanen-Matthews-Nylander line can do? Put Marleau back with Kadri and see if they can't get going again and then we can have 3 good scoring lines.
sharpshooter88 wrote:
Oct 10th, 2018 11:03 am

If it's a long term deal for 7 then I think Dubas lost in this battle. Willy needs to be under 7 since it's really looking like Marner can get around 9.
I'd be very happy if we could get Nylander signed at 7 million x 5-8 years. I don't know why an extra 500k a year is a deal breaker for a really good player when you could save that elsewhere by signing a cheaper 4th liner or something. And as good as Marner is, is he really worth close to Kucherov money right now? Not in my mind. I think 8 to 8.5 million is a good number for Marner and Matthews is the only player that you open the wallet for and if it takes about the same as McDavid money to sign him up, then you do it although I would hope they could get him signed for like 11-12 million at most.

And also I know the economics are completely different between the NBA and NHL, but it still does suck that NHL players even the really good ones have to fight for every dollar while completely average players in the NBA can easily earn as much as McDavid does. Like Biyombo who had one moderately good season with the Raps and he turns that into a 4 year 72 million contract earning 18 million a year. :rolleyes: Just sucks that the NBA is flush with money that even mediocre players can get paid while the NHL's best have to still claw and scrape for every dollar.
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MaximDude wrote:
Oct 10th, 2018 8:35 pm
I'd say Andersen is an issue, but its not like we can replace him anytime soon. Andersen looks like Hasek out there but without all the great saves. Freddy often flops around out there and he seems to not know where the puck is alot of the time too. McElhinney when he played looked much more calm, stable and consistent. If McBackup was 10 years younger, I'd easily rather have him than Andersen right now.



Kaps is playing well with Matthews right now, but lets see if he can do it for a prolonged period of time before we declare him a good replacement for Nylander. Also even when Willie hopefully comes back soon, why not move Kaps over to LW and see what a Kapanen-Matthews-Nylander line can do? Put Marleau back with Kadri and see if they can't get going again and then we can have 3 good scoring lines.



I'd be very happy if we could get Nylander signed at 7 million x 5-8 years. I don't know why an extra 500k a year is a deal breaker for a really good player when you could save that elsewhere by signing a cheaper 4th liner or something. And as good as Marner is, is he really worth close to Kucherov money right now? Not in my mind. I think 8 to 8.5 million is a good number for Marner and Matthews is the only player that you open the wallet for and if it takes about the same as McDavid money to sign him up, then you do it although I would hope they could get him signed for like 11-12 million at most.

And also I know the economics are completely different between the NBA and NHL, but it still does suck that NHL players even the really good ones have to fight for every dollar while completely average players in the NBA can easily earn as much as McDavid does. Like Biyombo who had one moderately good season with the Raps and he turns that into a 4 year 72 million contract earning 18 million a year. :rolleyes: Just sucks that the NBA is flush with money that even mediocre players can get paid while the NHL's best have to still claw and scrape for every dollar.
It’s called TV and advertising revenues man. NHL doesn’t draw even 1/10 of NBA.
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tcharged wrote:
Oct 10th, 2018 9:21 pm
It’s called TV and advertising revenues man. NHL doesn’t draw even 1/10 of NBA.
And NBA rosters are smaller too.
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MaximDude wrote:
Oct 10th, 2018 8:35 pm
I'd be very happy if we could get Nylander signed at 7 million x 5-8 years. I don't know why an extra 500k a year is a deal breaker for a really good player when you could save that elsewhere by signing a cheaper 4th liner or something. And as good as Marner is, is he really worth close to Kucherov money right now? Not in my mind. I think 8 to 8.5 million is a good number for Marner and Matthews is the only player that you open the wallet for and if it takes about the same as McDavid money to sign him up, then you do it although I would hope they could get him signed for like 11-12 million at most.
I don't like it when Kucherov's contract is used as a comparison because it's skewed. If he was signing with a team that has a state tax, his number would've been north of 10 million per season.
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sharpshooter88 wrote:
Oct 10th, 2018 10:08 pm
I don't like it when Kucherov's contract is used as a comparison because it's skewed. If he was signing with a team that has a state tax, his number would've been north of 10 million per season.
Ya Kuch can't be used as a comparable, he took a pretty good discount there following in the steps of his buddy Stamkos.
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sharpshooter88 wrote:
Oct 10th, 2018 10:08 pm
I don't like it when Kucherov's contract is used as a comparison because it's skewed. If he was signing with a team that has a state tax, his number would've been north of 10 million per season.
It's very easy for players to manipulate where they pay their state tax, especially when it comes to contracts with the Leafs and the huge signing bonuses they're willing to give out.
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Evil Baby wrote:
Oct 11th, 2018 11:20 am
It's very easy for players to manipulate where they pay their state tax, especially when it comes to contracts with the Leafs and the huge signing bonuses they're willing to give out.
It's doable, but not "very easy"....
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Evil Baby wrote:
Oct 11th, 2018 11:20 am
It's very easy for players to manipulate where they pay their state tax, especially when it comes to contracts with the Leafs and the huge signing bonuses they're willing to give out.
It's complicated. From what I've heard, they pay taxes based on where they're playing their games. So I'm assuming that playing for the Leafs, you've already got half your salary paying Canadian taxes.

Bottom line is, there's a big financial benefit to playing in Texas and Florida. There's no way Kucherov is taking 9.5 per season in Toronto.
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Kinda defeats the purpose of a salary cap when the tax rates applied to players on each team are different.... constrains salaries... but does not give true parity...
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sharpshooter88 wrote:
Oct 11th, 2018 11:52 am
It's complicated. From what I've heard, they pay taxes based on where they're playing their games. So I'm assuming that playing for the Leafs, you've already got half your salary paying Canadian taxes.

Bottom line is, there's a big financial benefit to playing in Texas and Florida. There's no way Kucherov is taking 9.5 per season in Toronto.
Not for Toronto though, since the Leafs are easily able to afford huge signing bonuses which are paid out in the state/province the player is living in on July 1st. After that, sure you can look at the rest of salary but even then, even in Florida / Dallas you're still getting taxed 30% Federal tax. That also doesn't take into consideration the endorsements that you can get in a larger city like Toronto or New York
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Evil Baby wrote:
Oct 11th, 2018 7:16 pm
Not for Toronto though, since the Leafs are easily able to afford huge signing bonuses which are paid out in the state/province the player is living in on July 1st. After that, sure you can look at the rest of salary but even then, even in Florida / Dallas you're still getting taxed 30% Federal tax. That also doesn't take into consideration the endorsements that you can get in a larger city like Toronto or New York
Wow, if I was CRA I would find that highly suspect if a player is declaring a new place of residence every July 1st for a few months only to avoid taxes on the bonus.

I believe agent commission's are like 20% for endorsements compared to player salary which is under 10%.
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sharpshooter88 wrote:
Oct 11th, 2018 7:59 pm
Wow, if I was CRA I would find that highly suspect if a player is declaring a new place of residence every July 1st for a few months only to avoid taxes on the bonus.

I believe agent commission's are like 20% for endorsements compared to player salary which is under 10%.
It's not like you purchase a house on June 30th. Also with athletes, since they play on the road so often its much easier and actual legal for them to claim legal residence outside of Canada.

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