Sports & Recreation

Leafs Talk (2018/19): Power UP*

  • Last Updated:
  • Dec 12th, 2018 10:07 am
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Oct 23, 2003
7400 posts
1109 upvotes
BongoBong wrote:
Dec 1st, 2018 8:47 pm
Why would Nylander or the leafs care about the 10.5 mil cap hit this year? I don't see any reason for either to drag this out if numbers were agreed upon already.
math

cap hit cannot be 10.2 this year UNLESS he signs on December 1st. Anything before that, and the cap hit wouldn't be 6.9 for the remaining years and 10 mil up front. It would be something like 7.5 mil every year instead...

problem is, MLS cannot make it SUPER obvious they're circumventing the cap...even if its legal and above the board...all the teams would start doing this now...also..fans would be super pissed that Nylander missed 26 games because of accounting and personal greed on the player's part.

either way, i dont have a good feeling about how this whole thing went down. Not in terms of bad vibes, but he's clearly not interested in winning a cup in Toronto as much as making top dollar. I hope they win a cup this year, and he gets traded in 1-2 years.

Rather have Tavares who left millions on the table, just to be here. Ditto for Gardner if you guys caught the CBC 2nd period break, seems he might be ok with a salary lower than the 6-7 mil he'd get in free agency, just to stay with his family in Toronto.

Nylander made a couple millions more than Pastrnak, but he's nowhere close to that guy in skill level and fans will expect him to be just as good or better.

The saving grace is Toronto's paying nearly half of that contract, up front. So, trading him will still result in a 6.9 mil cap, but money owed is a lot less than that, so poorer teams will have no problems paying him.
Deal Addict
User avatar
Sep 27, 2008
3369 posts
173 upvotes
Adelaide
bobcat99 wrote:
Dec 1st, 2018 11:52 pm

Because they have cap space this year. Not so much next year with deals for M and M. This was played beautifully by Dubas and Nylander's camp, won't be surprised if this was decided on 3 months ago, and the reason everyone was mum about the negotiations.
Buggy166 wrote:
Dec 2nd, 2018 12:23 am
math

cap hit cannot be 10.2 this year UNLESS he signs on December 1st. Anything before that, and the cap hit wouldn't be 6.9 for the remaining years and 10 mil up front. It would be something like 7.5 mil every year instead...

problem is, MLS cannot make it SUPER obvious they're circumventing the cap...even if its legal and above the board...all the teams would start doing this now...also..fans would be super pissed that Nylander missed 26 games because of accounting and personal greed on the player's part.
But the cap hit this year being 10.5 mil doesn't mean the remaining years are lower, its only higher this year because the 6.96 million he is making is over a shorter period of time and needs to be prorated since this year he essentially is making a higher salary on a per day basis. His contract is 41.77 million over 6 years. If he signed for 41.77 million over 6 years at the beginning of the year he would have a cap hit of 6.96 million per year every year. All that signing this late has done is mean this years cap hit is higher and 2-6 is the exact same as if he signed earlier. Unless I am missing something here.
either way, i dont have a good feeling about how this whole thing went down. Not in terms of bad vibes, but he's clearly not interested in winning a cup in Toronto as much as making top dollar. I hope they win a cup this year, and he gets traded in 1-2 years.
Seems like the exact mentality that would mean he was right to go for higher money and less team friendly contract. There are a lot of very good players on Toronto right now and it would be pretty crappy to sign a team friendly contract just to be traded down the line to who knows where to make sure they have room for the other guys.
Deal Addict
User avatar
Feb 3, 2005
3629 posts
215 upvotes
Georgetown
BongoBong wrote:
Dec 2nd, 2018 8:37 am
But the cap hit this year being 10.5 mil doesn't mean the remaining years are lower, its only higher this year because the 6.96 million he is making is over a shorter period of time and needs to be prorated since this year he essentially is making a higher salary on a per day basis. His contract is 41.77 million over 6 years. If he signed for 41.77 million over 6 years at the beginning of the year he would have a cap hit of 6.96 million per year every year. All that signing this late has done is mean this years cap hit is higher and 2-6 is the exact same as if he signed earlier. Unless I am missing something here.



Seems like the exact mentality that would mean he was right to go for higher money and less team friendly contract. There are a lot of very good players on Toronto right now and it would be pretty crappy to sign a team friendly contract just to be traded down the line to who knows where to make sure they have room for the other guys.
Actually, he got 45 million, so 7.5 per season if he signed before the season began. Only by waiting until the signing deadline do we push the cap hit in future years down below 7 million, and take the much bigger cap hit this year (when we have ample room to absorb it). The CBA has this little quirk in it and it was used effectively by Nylander and the Leafs. The contract also gives him lockout protection by making next years salary almost enirely signing bonus. I felt this was how it would play out when all this began... Dubas needed the cap room in future years and 5ismwas the only way for Willy to get more, and a Dubas to keep future year cap hits under 7 where he wanted them.
Deal Addict
User avatar
Feb 3, 2005
3629 posts
215 upvotes
Georgetown
I want to add.... I feel like the way this deal has been announced is very crafty. They are telling the story they want to tell (6.9 per year) and completely trying to gloss over the reality (7.5 per). They keep the focus on the 6.9 (actually more like 7) in years 2-6. That is done on purpose to spin the deal. Pretty smart actually....
Deal Expert
User avatar
Mar 18, 2005
18035 posts
1569 upvotes
Niagara Falls
Tiberius wrote:
Dec 2nd, 2018 9:34 am
I want to add.... I feel like the way this deal has been announced is very crafty. They are telling the story they want to tell (6.9 per year) and completely trying to gloss over the reality (7.5 per). They keep the focus on the 6.9 (actually more like 7) in years 2-6. That is done on purpose to spin the deal. Pretty smart actually....
If this Reddit post is correct, it looks like his contract is 6 years for 41.77 million so the average would have been 6.9


https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comment ... ntext=1000
First year salary is pro rated $10M salary (6.77 M) plus a full $2M signing bonus. Net number of $8.77M. AAV of $10.2M.

In out years, the AAV is $6.996M.

In year two, base salary is $700K, SB of $8.3M.

In remaining years, $2.5M in base salary plus $3.5M SB
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Oct 23, 2003
7400 posts
1109 upvotes
BongoBong wrote:
Dec 2nd, 2018 8:37 am
But the cap hit this year being 10.5 mil doesn't mean the remaining years are lower, its only higher this year because the 6.96 million he is making is over a shorter period of time and needs to be prorated since this year he essentially is making a higher salary on a per day basis. His contract is 41.77 million over 6 years. If he signed for 41.77 million over 6 years at the beginning of the year he would have a cap hit of 6.96 million per year every year. All that signing this late has done is mean this years cap hit is higher and 2-6 is the exact same as if he signed earlier. Unless I am missing something here.



Seems like the exact mentality that would mean he was right to go for higher money and less team friendly contract. There are a lot of very good players on Toronto right now and it would be pretty crappy to sign a team friendly contract just to be traded down the line to who knows where to make sure they have room for the other guys.
looking at contract details, its clear the Leafs want the option of trading him.

After year 1 and 2, they pay close to $20 mil in cash.
Years 3-6 the cash value is whatever is left over.

A cap hit of 6.9 mil is doable for 99% of the teams that might wanna trade for him. That wasnt an issue. The $40 mil in real cash IS an issue for a lot of teams. Wipe 50% off that amount for his remaining 4 years of contract...boom...cheap and trade-able contract even to a bottom feeding team in the league.

Leafs signed him for a guaranteed cup run, that might last 2-3 years. After that, based on his contract, its clear they want flexibility to deal him, IF they decide to.
Deal Addict
User avatar
Feb 3, 2005
3629 posts
215 upvotes
Georgetown
Evil Baby wrote:
Dec 2nd, 2018 10:04 am
If this Reddit post is correct, it looks like his contract is 6 years for 41.77 million so the average would have been 6.9


https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comment ... ntext=1000
Here is the contract breakdown...
https://www.capfriendly.com/players/william-nylander

or

https://www.spotrac.com/nhl/toronto-map ... der-15746/

The marketing/PR blitz is working to convince the masses that Dubas kept this under 7 million per.

Also - as was just pointed out above... by the time next season starts, they will have paid over 20 million, leaving the actually money owed to Nylander quite reasonable and thus he is very tradeable! Year 2 salary is under a million... and years 3-6 just 6 million each. Many teams don't care so much about cap hit being 7 million vs what they actually have to pay which will be very attractive at 6 million for seasons 3 through 6.
Deal Expert
User avatar
Mar 18, 2005
18035 posts
1569 upvotes
Niagara Falls
Tiberius wrote:
Dec 2nd, 2018 10:46 am
Here is the contract breakdown...
https://www.capfriendly.com/players/william-nylander

or

https://www.spotrac.com/nhl/toronto-map ... der-15746/

The marketing/PR blitz is working to convince the masses that Dubas kept this under 7 million per.

Also - as was just pointed out above... by the time next season starts, they will have paid over 20 million, leaving the actually money owed to Nylander quite reasonable and thus he is very tradeable! Year 2 salary is under a million... and years 3-6 just 6 million each. Many teams don't care so much about cap hit being 7 million vs what they actually have to pay which will be very attractive at 6 million for seasons 3 through 6.
So yes this is a bit odd.

If what you posted is correct the final contract is $45 million for 6 years, but he's only going to get $41.77 million of that $45 million. So you can look at it two ways. You can pretend he signed for 6x6.9 at the beginning of the season or you can assumed he would have signed for 6x7.5 at the beginning of the season but decided to burn $3.23 million for craps and giggles.

As for the structure of the contract, its the same thing they did with JT. Toronto should continue to use the loop hole as long as they can, I assume it'll be plugged during the next CBA. The bonuses also protect the players money against a lockout which is a bonus for the players.
Deal Fanatic
Mar 10, 2005
6411 posts
1171 upvotes
Played like crap yesterday and still come out of with a win Smiling Face With Open Mouth Good time to be a Leaf fan.
________

"Leaders who don't listen will eventually be surrounded by people who have nothing to say"
Deal Addict
User avatar
Feb 3, 2005
3629 posts
215 upvotes
Georgetown
Evil Baby wrote:
Dec 2nd, 2018 12:17 pm
So yes this is a bit odd.

If what you posted is correct the final contract is $45 million for 6 years, but he's only going to get $41.77 million of that $45 million. So you can look at it two ways. You can pretend he signed for 6x6.9 at the beginning of the season or you can assumed he would have signed for 6x7.5 at the beginning of the season but decided to burn $3.23 million for craps and giggles.

As for the structure of the contract, its the same thing they did with JT. Toronto should continue to use the loop hole as long as they can, I assume it'll be plugged during the next CBA. The bonuses also protect the players money against a lockout which is a bonus for the players.
Yeah... I'm assuming he doesn't get paid a portion of this seasons salary because of the time he sat out... so that brings the total down under 42 million? The 10 million salary this season has 3.17 or so million not paid due to his time sitting out... so... I guess that brings it to that magical slightly below 42 million number... so he actually pockets 6.9-7 per season on average. But he didn't play 1/3 of a season that is being included in coming up with that avg...

Whatever... he pockets almost 42 million and we have one contract behind us that is tradeable if necessary after the first season.
Deal Addict
User avatar
Sep 27, 2008
3369 posts
173 upvotes
Adelaide
Buggy166 wrote:
Dec 2nd, 2018 10:31 am
looking at contract details, its clear the Leafs want the option of trading him.

After year 1 and 2, they pay close to $20 mil in cash.
Years 3-6 the cash value is whatever is left over.

A cap hit of 6.9 mil is doable for 99% of the teams that might wanna trade for him. That wasnt an issue. The $40 mil in real cash IS an issue for a lot of teams. Wipe 50% off that amount for his remaining 4 years of contract...boom...cheap and trade-able contract even to a bottom feeding team in the league.

Leafs signed him for a guaranteed cup run, that might last 2-3 years. After that, based on his contract, its clear they want flexibility to deal him, IF they decide to.
Which is why I think its pretty reasonable he fought for what he thinks he is worth not just settled for a team friendly contract. It's one thing to sign a team friendly contract when you are pretty assured you are a major part of the long term plans, but if it seems like the organisation may see you as the odd man out down the road, why be on a team friendly contract if you end up somewhere crappy?
Last edited by BongoBong on Dec 2nd, 2018 5:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Deal Addict
User avatar
Sep 27, 2008
3369 posts
173 upvotes
Adelaide
Evil Baby wrote:
Dec 2nd, 2018 12:17 pm
So yes this is a bit odd.

If what you posted is correct the final contract is $45 million for 6 years, but he's only going to get $41.77 million of that $45 million. So you can look at it two ways. You can pretend he signed for 6x6.9 at the beginning of the season or you can assumed he would have signed for 6x7.5 at the beginning of the season but decided to burn $3.23 million for craps and giggles.

As for the structure of the contract, its the same thing they did with JT. Toronto should continue to use the loop hole as long as they can, I assume it'll be plugged during the next CBA. The bonuses also protect the players money against a lockout which is a bonus for the players.
I would be interested how the contract itself actually looks but I am pretty sure the contract itself is 41.7 million. The reason that site shows the higher salary is because it is taking into account the cap hit for this year which is inflated.

Basically the amount of money he is getting is 41.7 million and the cap hit for years 2-6 is the same now then if he had signed for 41.7 million at the beginning of the year. I just don't see this as the smart management and cap circumvention that some people think it is.
Deal Expert
User avatar
Mar 18, 2005
18035 posts
1569 upvotes
Niagara Falls
BongoBong wrote:
Dec 2nd, 2018 5:43 pm
I would be interested how the contract itself actually looks but I am pretty sure the contract itself is 41.7 million. The reason that site shows the higher salary is because it is taking into account the cap hit for this year which is inflated.

Basically the amount of money he is getting is 41.7 million and the cap hit for years 2-6 is the same now then if he had signed for 41.7 million at the beginning of the year. I just don't see this as the smart management and cap circumvention that some people think it is.
For me, the cap circumvention isn't the amount paid, it's the bonuses. It makes his contract very attractive to the poorer teams out there. They could get a very good player at a very owner friendly price tag while helping that team get over the bottom of the cap.

They certainly didn't need to wait till Dec 1st to accomplish that but that will help the Leafs in the future.
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Sep 21, 2010
9870 posts
1806 upvotes
Montréal
All these calculations and permutations are too much for my simple brain...thinking too much will make it explode lol.

I'm just glad they finally freed Willy. Game on, boys!
The richest 1% of this country owns half our country’s wealth, 5 trillion dollars, one-third of that comes from hard work, two-thirds comes from inheritance, interest on interest accumulating to widows and idiot sons, and what I do.. <find the rest>
Deal Addict
User avatar
Feb 3, 2005
3629 posts
215 upvotes
Georgetown
BongoBong wrote:
Dec 2nd, 2018 5:43 pm
I would be interested how the contract itself actually looks but I am pretty sure the contract itself is 41.7 million. The reason that site shows the higher salary is because it is taking into account the cap hit for this year which is inflated.

Basically the amount of money he is getting is 41.7 million and the cap hit for years 2-6 is the same now then if he had signed for 41.7 million at the beginning of the year. I just don't see this as the smart management and cap circumvention that some people think it is.
I linked to the contract details... it’s 45 million over 6 years. That is 7.5 per year. The reason it is being sold as 41.7 is that he loses 26/82 of his 10 million salary this year for signing late - which is 3.17 million.... 45 - 3.17 = 41.83... so my rough estimate based on games seems to make sense... the real calculation probably uses days of the season.

If he signed for 41.7 at the start of the year, you are correct that it would be the same cap hit.

Top