Sports & Recreation

Leafs Talk (2018/19): Power UP*

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  • Dec 12th, 2018 10:07 am
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gr8dlr wrote:
Dec 3rd, 2018 6:55 pm
As Don Cherry said, 20 goals is now with $7 mil?!?!?

Pressure is on now to produce and show you're worth the money.
if he gets 60 assist on top of that, like Marner might, yea, sure. haha
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in case it hasn't been posted ...

Leivo traded to the Canucks for mr. nobody (Michael Carcone). Finally moving on from Leivo, he should get more playing time in Vancouver.
________

"Leaders who don't listen will eventually be surrounded by people who have nothing to say"
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IMO, Nylander got fleeced by Dubas.
Nylander gave a "discount" to Leafs (he coulda gotten more from other teams), but reality is that he's just made himself a easier trade bait.
At his talent level (except a major injury), there will be NO PROBLEM moving this contract in the future.
If you are unsure about what I said above, then check out www.creedthoughts.gov.www\creedthoughts
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MrMom wrote:
Dec 3rd, 2018 12:40 pm
Bye bye Leivo
hope this trade doesnt bite them back... remember Alex Steen had a couple of good years in STL after we got rid of him?
If you are unsure about what I said above, then check out www.creedthoughts.gov.www\creedthoughts
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Buggy166 wrote:
Dec 3rd, 2018 9:08 am
No.

The real contract is 7.5 mil a year if he had signed at the start. From the Star:

“As more than one agent noted this weekend, the annual average value of Nylander’s contract isn’t technically $6.9 million — on paper it’s $7.5 million, a $45-million deal minus the $3.2 million he’ll forego for sitting out the opening two months of the season. That $7.5-million paper average makes a decent run at the $8.5-million annual average currently paid to Leon Draisaitl, the Oilers winger who stood as another comparable in negotiations. Draisaitl went into Sunday tied for 19th in the NHL points race. As one player agent said of Nylander’s contract: “It’s better than Draisaitl’s.” By what rationale? Nylander secured $24.3 million in signing bonuses; Draisaitl got $14 million. And Nylander will hit unrestricted free agency sooner than Draisaitl, which presents the opportunity for an earlier pay bump.”
Don't agree with their take. Sure in a way the contract is 45 million, but that's just based on how the cap hit needs to be calculated for the year and put on paper. He is actually making 42 million, and if you are correct that both sides were happy with him making that amount of money earlier, it wouldn't have mattered when he signed to receive 42 million, now or at the beginning of the season. This isn't some clever circumvention going on.
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creedbratton wrote:
Dec 4th, 2018 12:36 am
hope this trade doesnt bite them back... remember Alex Steen had a couple of good years in STL after we got rid of him?
Leivo wasnt a 1st round pick, nor did he put up 40+ points while he was here. He's a 3rd liner with potential to make it to the 2nd line. The Leafs "lost" that trade in terms of player value, but they got space contract space back in return. Wish Leivo the best, he had more patience than I would've ever had in the past few years.
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BongoBong wrote:
Dec 4th, 2018 2:38 am
Don't agree with their take. Sure in a way the contract is 45 million, but that's just based on how the cap hit needs to be calculated for the year and put on paper. He is actually making 42 million, and if you are correct that both sides were happy with him making that amount of money earlier, it wouldn't have mattered when he signed to receive 42 million, now or at the beginning of the season. This isn't some clever circumvention going on.

first off, lets fix your math.

Nylander is making $42 mil? Lets see.

10.2 mil + (5 years * 7 mil - since its 6.95 something) = 10.2 mil + 35 mil = 45.2 mil (we'll remove the 0.2 mil because the real contract is $45 mil cash, and i didnt calculate the decimals on the last 5 years of the contract)

Nylander is making $45 mil in cash (signing bonuses + salary)

you just said you dont agree with their take and then list the exact reason why the cap needs to be calculated for the year and put on paper in that specific way.

I know the CBA is complex and we cant explain it easily, but December 1st is significant for a specific reason, and they used it.

Here's a discussion on that:
https://www.reddit.com/r/leafs/comments ... enefit_if/

edit: here's the accounting from that post:
Image


If Nylander signs 6 years for $45 mil at the start of the season, the cap hit is 7.5 mil a year every year, for 6 years. They cannot move extra cap hit money to this season. Its all flat 7.5 mil per year.

If Nylander signs on December 1st, Leafs are allowed to have a higher cap value this season, and front-load his contract. Something the NHL tried to abolish when they re-wrote the CBA and avoid $20 mil 1st year and $500k last year contract type of deals, where players would just retire and teams wont have to suffer for bad signings, Its also why teams cannot buy out players over the age of 35 (like some people mention on this forum about Marleau).

This was planned out ahead.

You want me to buy the fact that Nylander waited until 3-4pm on deadline day, to make an international phone call to someone in Canada, in a different time zone (6-7 hours difference) and risk not getting a good signal or having cell reception? Also, risk him not getting the paperwork due to email errors and fax machines not working properly? Also risk sending in the papers back to the Leafs (with his signature) and having technical issues with that? Also risk the Leafs not handing in the contract into the league on time and missing the deadline by 1 or 2 minutes?


You dont remember that fax machine fiasco from the trade deadline years back? All the GMs and players remember.



This whole thing reads like a spanish telenovela. I dont think the people involved in these business deals are that stupid or naive. I dont buy it.
This was planned WELL ahead of time, and the social media silence, along with the occasional acting was done perfectly.
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thelefteyeguy wrote:
Dec 4th, 2018 12:02 pm
.....shhhhh


everyone knew this was all a ploy Winking Face
clearly not everyone lol but yes, agreed on the shhh Face With Tears Of Joy
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icexman83 wrote:
Dec 1st, 2018 4:51 pm
This kid is so selfish. Sign the contract or bow out
I wonder what you'll be saying about Marner and Matthews and whether or not they're 'selfish' next summer when its their turn to grab as much as they can?
Buggy166 wrote:
Dec 3rd, 2018 12:15 pm

Article's main point was that Nylander isnt anywhere close to Pastrnak or Draisaitl, but got paid better, and based on his 2 year history, I'd tend to agree.
Although at this time Nylander might not be as good as those two, he's definitely not that far behind in my opinion and there's no reason why he can't improve as a player and increase his production with his skill.
The second point it makes, is that, if the trade-ability of a contract is the best thing about it, its very clear that it wasn't a great thing for the team. I'd also agree with this.
How is this not a good contract for the team? Its only 300k per year more than Pastrnak's deal which is chump change. Sure Pasta's contract is looking really good with his production vs what he's paid, but Nylander's contract is still good and can be really good if he continues to improve and increase his numbers. The guy is still only 22 so there's plenty of time for him to improve. Of course its abit of a risk to give him a big contract at this time, but that's what you have to do with your star players. Pay them and hope they keep doing well or even better what they're doing so far.
Buggy166 wrote:
Dec 3rd, 2018 6:31 pm
It remains to be seen if Nylander's actually worth 7 mil. To me, that hasnt happened just yet, although i think hes capable of it. Lets see.
Its a risk to sign any player to a big contract, but you have to do it with your best players or what else can you do? Piss them off and be forced to trade them? At least right now the contract is pretty fair for both sides and everyone is happy and to me that's worth paying Nylander that little extra than trying to nickle and diming him to death.
gr8dlr wrote:
Dec 3rd, 2018 6:55 pm
As Don Cherry said, 20 goals is now with $7 mil?!?!?

Pressure is on now to produce and show you're worth the money.
JVR is getting paid 7 million now and even though he's scoring a few more goals, his career high in points is only ONE MORE POINT than Nylander so far. Pacioretty career high in points is 67 which is only 6 more than Nylander's and he's going to get 7 million per year starting next season. Evander Kane is getting paid 7 mill per year and his career high is 57 pts with only a couple of seasons at or near 30 goals. Out of those four, Nylander even at his young age is WAYYY more talented, dynamic and impactful than JVR or Patches despite scoring less goals than those two. And vs Kane, he's done more by 22 than Kane did in his career in total pts.

The point is when you compare Nylander getting 7 million to other players in the league getting the same money, I'd MUCH rather give Willie that contract than say any of the players I listed above so unless Nylander does an Evander Kane and goes off a cliff after signing a big deal, then the Leafs should be fine and Nylander will be worth his contract or if he goes gangbusters and does a Pastrnak then we'll look back and say Dubas was on point with getting Willie signed.
Toronto sports teams..............forever cursed. Profound sadness. :(
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Definitely a risk....financially? well the Leafs a stacked with cash...

but a huge risk if he under performs and they are stuck because of the salary cap (can't trade him).
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thelefteyeguy wrote:
Dec 4th, 2018 1:03 pm
Definitely a risk....financially? well the Leafs a stacked with cash...

but a huge risk if he under performs and they are stuck because of the salary cap (can't trade him).
If he's playing with Matthews, it's highly unlikely he will do poorly. It would be a different story if Nylander had to drive a line all by himself.
Baaaaaaaaa!
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Buggy166 wrote:
Dec 4th, 2018 11:46 am
first off, lets fix your math.

Nylander is making $42 mil? Lets see.

10.2 mil + (5 years * 7 mil - since its 6.95 something) = 10.2 mil + 35 mil = 45.2 mil (we'll remove the 0.2 mil because the real contract is $45 mil cash, and i didnt calculate the decimals on the last 5 years of the contract)

Nylander is making $45 mil in cash (signing bonuses + salary)
Except he isn't making $45 million, he is making ~42 milllion, which is where your fundamental misunderstanding of this situation is coming from. http://www.espn.com.au/nhl/story/_/id/2 ... 4177m-deal

Nylander will receive ~$42 million dollars over the life of this contract, not $45 million. His cap hit needs to show $45 million over the life of the contract due to how the cap hit has to be calculated this year, not based on how much money he is actually making this year. You can't sign a guy 1/3rd of the way in for $6.9 million and only get a $6.9 million dollar cap hit for that year, so they have to pro-rate that per day amount over the entirety of the season for this year. The increase to 10.2 million cap hit is only on paper for the year because the actual amount he is being paid is over a shorter period of time.
you just said you dont agree with their take and then list the exact reason why the cap needs to be calculated for the year and put on paper in that specific way.



Except in those examples the player would be making less money and would be stupid to collude with the organisation to do it. Are you saying Nylander agreed to a $45 million contract with the leafs? If that's the case they hosed him out of $3 million since he is only making ~$42 million dollars over the life of this contract. Are you saying Nylander and the leafs agreed to a $42 million dollar contract? If that's the case when he signs makes no difference on when he signs


Again, Nylander isn't getting $45 million dollars out of this contract.



The basics of the deal were more than likely hashed out, and the theatrics of the timing could have been set up somewhat, but there is no benefit to both sides if they both agreed to Nylander making $42 million over 6 years at the beginning of the year.
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BongoBong wrote:
Dec 4th, 2018 7:02 pm
Except he isn't making $45 million, he is making ~42 milllion, which is where your fundamental misunderstanding of this situation is coming from. http://www.espn.com.au/nhl/story/_/id/2 ... 4177m-deal

Nylander will receive ~$42 million dollars over the life of this contract, not $45 million. His cap hit needs to show $45 million over the life of the contract due to how the cap hit has to be calculated this year, not based on how much money he is actually making this year. You can't sign a guy 1/3rd of the way in for $6.9 million and only get a $6.9 million dollar cap hit for that year, so they have to pro-rate that per day amount over the entirety of the season for this year. The increase to 10.2 million cap hit is only on paper for the year because the actual amount he is being paid is over a shorter period of time.
So the cap hit is more than 3 mil higher in ghost money? Hows that work?

If you signed a guy for 6.9 mil for the year and he missed out on 25% of it, wouldn't that subtract from that year since he's not getting that money? Except the Leafs are not only making him whole this year, paying for games he hasnt played, but he's also getting 2 mil in signing bonuses. 2nd year looks like he has 8.5 mil in signing bonuses.

Years 3,4,5,6 have 2.5 mil salary and 3.5 mil signing bonuses, so a $6 mil cash salary and a 6.9 cap hit.
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Buggy166 wrote:
Dec 4th, 2018 7:33 pm
So the cap hit is more than 3 mil higher in ghost money? Hows that work?
By calculating how much money he is making per day dividing the remaining number of days in the season into the 6.9 million he is being paid, then multiplying that number by the total number of days in the season.
If you signed a guy for 6.9 mil for the year and he missed out on 25% of it, wouldn't that subtract from that year since he's not getting that money?


No. The cap hit is based on what someone would be making yearly. If someone is paid 6.9 million for 2/3rds of the year, that doesn't reflect what the yearly amount would be based on his daily earnings which is why it is pro rated up.

Lets go back to how you think this played out. How much money do you think the Leafs and Nylander agreed to earlier in the year that he should make over the 6 years?

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