Leafs Talk: Tanks R Us

[poppa]

anyone know if ticket prices are coming down for the Leafs?

[rilhouse]

not a chance

[thelefteyeguy]

it's a question that has been answered by leaf management..."not going up or down"

[Hanniganite]

Toronto's not a weakling hockey market that is desperate and needs to win fans back. There will always be people, even if people do want to "get back" at the team by not buying tickets. There's no shortage of Leafs fans in Toronto, so there is no real reason why management would bother lowering prices. Just to be nice guys? Yeah right.

[afong56]

Even with the 3.8 million against the cap, Nolan would be the most hated player ever to wear the leafs jersey. With surgery, it would take a good year for him to play again...why be a prick. I don't understand why he wouldnt accept a buy out.

Something else must be going on...this situation is very bizarre

my guess it that he wants the full value of his contract honoured, not just the buyout amount.

pure speculation, but methinks nolan knows he is finished, and would not be able to sign a contract anywhere else, anyways. once the deal is done, he will retire. he's just trying to maximize what will probably be his last paycheck. he'll probably never skate another shift in the bigs.

it'll be interesting to see if the leafs management suddenly gets a lot smarter than they have been in the past. with the new financial restraints, let's hope they start making smart decisions with their personnel (but who are we kidding?)

i don't see the leafs being competitive for at least five years. . .providing they make some smart draft picks in the immediate future

[afong56]

I think all us leaf fans should just accept that MLSE knows they will make money hand over fist regardless of whether the Leafs win or not. Granted, they don't want to be near the bottom like they were for a while there, but they really don't have to have the same kind of dedication to building a winning franchise that a team like, say, detroit or colorado does.

Kind of frustrating, but we'd better accept it

i think all three teams, colorado, detroit and toronto are going to be facing some serious challenges in the near future. even though the salary structure has been massively shifted downward, it is going to require some damn fine management for these traditional 'powerhouses' to remain competitive.

[othy]

i think all three teams, colorado, detroit and toronto are going to be facing some serious challenges in the near future. even though the salary structure has been massively shifted downward, it is going to require some damn fine management for these traditional 'powerhouses' to remain competitive.

Well, at least detroit has an amazing scouting staff and has some great young players in Zetterberg, Datsyuk and Fischer.. Providing they can sign Zetterberg and Datsyuk, which they will. They will probably keep Chelios and Yzerman (if he still wants to play!) but the rest of their UFAs can be given up without much fanfare..

Colorado will have a tougher time, but they have arguably one of the best GMs around today in Lecroix, so if anyone can make it happen it is him.. Ferguson Jr is somewhat untested still in my view so who knows, he could make it happen.. Having Paul Maurice coaching the Jr squad is a step in the right direction for building fot the future, though..

[tkl]

my guess it that he wants the full value of his contract honoured, not just the buyout amount.

pure speculation, but methinks nolan knows he is finished, and would not be able to sign a contract anywhere else, anyways. once the deal is done, he will retire. he's just trying to maximize what will probably be his last paycheck. he'll probably never skate another shift in the bigs......

Completely agreed. Nolan knows he's done. If he was to play again in this new landscape he would be a what ?... mill, 2 million dollar player. Plus who would take a chance on this often injured player. I'd take a chance on Lindros before I take Nolan. Nolan's just trying to milk it for all he can while he can. Why play for 5-6 years to get 12 mill ( in todays market) when you can just do nothing and get it right now. He's probably the biggest leaf flop that I can think of in the last 10 years. Feel free to suggest others.

Nolan total career goals 349 in 15 season = 23.6 goals average per season.

Crappy numbers for a player who's suppose to be a power forward. His best year was his contract year with San Jose with 44. He's scored a TOTAL of 26 goals in 2 years for the leaf.

All hype no substance. Can't see why the press is so high on him.

[coopaloop]

I'm sure glad I'm not a Canucks fan.....Big Bert want's out. Naslund will be gone for sure....And Dan Cloutier starting in goal..... Now the leafs don't look so bad do they.

[wpooh888]

Toronto's not a weakling hockey market that is desperate and needs to win fans back. There will always be people, even if people do want to "get back" at the team by not buying tickets. There's no shortage of Leafs fans in Toronto, so there is no real reason why management would bother lowering prices. Just to be nice guys? Yeah right.

Especially when their modus operandi is to make money. As long as they are owned by the Teachers Pension, profit comes before the Cup !

[afong56]

Especially when their modus operandi is to make money. As long as they are owned by the Teachers Pension, profit comes before the Cup !

wow, that's severely misinformed, especially in the new cap climate that the league operates in.

if "profit" is the number one motive, then it is absolutely in the best interests of the 'teacher's pension fund' to see the leafs get as far as humanly possible into the playoffs, e.g. win the stanley cup.

first, the leafs will sell out regardless of who the ownership is (see: harold ballard). that means that the regular season is a fixed income.

second, home ice advantage is determined by regular season standings, so the number of home games during the playoffs is dependent on how well the leafs do in 82 games. therefore, the ownership should be pushing the team hard to finish with the president's cup, since each home game in the playoff is a windfall of profit (all salaries are already accounted for during the regular season, only bonuses, possibly, although that will be severely restricted, i believe under the new cba) every time the leafs take the ice in the acc during playoff games.

this playoff revenue is a huge "floating" income that will depend directly upon how far the leafs get in the playoffs.

if "profit" is the only motive, then the teacher's pension fund would be whipping the asses of the team to win the cup, since that generates millions more in "profit".

third, since there is a cap, the ownership has no power to overspend anyways (without a massive penalty), so that is not an issue. and trust me, everybody knows that the leafs will be spending at the cap limit, every year.

so, what facts did you base your claim on, or did you just pass on something ignorant you read in the toronto sun???

maybe what you meant to say was, "since they are owned by the teachers' pension [fund] whose modus operandi is profit, the leafs will win all 82 games, finish in first, and win the stanley cup in seven games--since that would maximize their residuals, because that is what a company intent on profit would do".

[afong56]

supplementary:

if you actually thought about it, spending money has never been the issue. the leafs have had a high payroll for a long time

the issue is management--making good personnel decisions, and at some level, coaching.

toronto's payroll has been more than enough to win the cup.

profit? profit has always been the same, since they sell out every single home game.

it's pretty easy to find a boogeyman for why the leafs aren't cup champions, but at least get the correct culprit. yeesh.

[wpooh888]

All points valid except for the fact that The Teachers Pension can't peer into a crystal ball knowing where the Leafs will finish in the regular season and how many rounds they can win in the playoffs when they set their budget prior to the season starting.

Have they been generous with their budgets in the past ? Certainly. Their budgets in the past in the pre-cap era, were based on guesstimating how many home playoff games they would host, same goes with the Raptors. You said it is in their best interest to finish higher in the standings and to actually win the Cup, they can't assume acquiring a certain player or players will do that. They have to stick to their original budget projections and maybe alter it slightly for some minor additions, but they certainly do not go all out to chance hurting that profit margin and bottom line. I'm sure they
had a minimum ROI based on not reaching the playoffs so that if that were to happen, the fund wouldn't suffer. Also, if they did make the playoffs, everything would be gravy.

I never said that the Teachers Pension is the only culprit, I just said that profit and ROI were more important to them. I don't doubt they would want the Leafs to win the Cup and advance further in the playoffs, but at what cost ? They want a certain ROI from their investment, now with the cap and even with revenue sharing and giving the have-nots their money, they will certainly be obtaining that goal without any problems.

[synaptech]

Even with the 3.8 million against the cap, Nolan would be the most hated player ever to wear the leafs jersey. With surgery, it would take a good year for him to play again...why be a prick. I don't understand why he wouldnt accept a buy out.

Something else must be going on...this situation is very bizarre

I doubt he's concerned about a team that's looking to dump him. Who will offer him a contract now that he's out for at least a year. Better to get all he can now and retire.

[afong56]

All points valid except for the fact that The Teachers Pension can't peer into a crystal ball knowing where the Leafs will finish in the regular season and how many rounds they can win in the playoffs when they set their budget prior to the season starting.

totally irrelevant. every team has a budget set prior to the beginning of a season. why bother mentioning this?

Have they been generous with their budgets in the past ? Certainly. Their budgets in the past in the pre-cap era, were based on guesstimating how many home playoff games they would host, same goes with the Raptors. You said it is in their best interest to finish higher in the standings and to actually win the Cup, they can't assume acquiring a certain player or players will do that. They have to stick to their original budget projections and maybe alter it slightly for some minor additions, but they certainly do not go all out to chance hurting that profit margin and bottom line. I'm sure they
had a minimum ROI based on not reaching the playoffs so that if that were to happen, the fund wouldn't suffer. Also, if they did make the playoffs, everything would be gravy.

they do have a guaranteed 'roi', as you put it: they know in advance that they have 41 sellouts a season. their minimum 'roi' is never an issue. by your line of reasoning, they wouldn't bother spending more than the minimum, since every dollar above their set 'roi' would eat into their margin. furthermore, they therefore would not have any wiggle room whatsoever, since that would do nothing but reduce margin. as a business, if they really were, as you suggest, obsessed with 'roi' and profit margins, they would cut costs as close to the bone as possible--payroll would be flatlined. there are many examples of teams in professional sports that do just that. the leafs are not one of them.

I never said that the Teachers Pension is the only culprit, I just said that profit and ROI were more important to them. I don't doubt they would want the Leafs to win the Cup and advance further in the playoffs, but at what cost ? They want a certain ROI from their investment, now with the cap and even with revenue sharing and giving the have-nots their money, they will certainly be obtaining that goal without any problems

do you realize how large the teachers' pension fund is? even a $20 million dollar budget increase is peanuts. the entire value of their mlse holding is probably less than 1% of its value--ergo, mlse is a blip. . .they probably lost 5 times the value of the entire mlse in just their nortel holdings when that stock dove a few years back.

finally, your original statement "profits come before the cup" was erroneous, since, and i believe you admit this, the cup = profits. can you debate this point?

stop trying to paint the fund as the boogeyman. their ownership, has never, and i mean never, affected the cup fortunes of the team.