Real Estate

Is this legal?

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  • Sep 12th, 2018 11:13 pm
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Deal Addict
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Dec 13, 2016
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Is this legal?

If I rent out a place, can I make a condition for blinds, and appliances to be tenant's responsibility? For example, I state that appliances are not included, but will be left available for tenant's use? If something breaks down it is their responsibility to repair or replace,

I would be offering my unit below market rate for this exemption.
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Dec 13, 2016
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fogetmylogin wrote: Blinds and such seems easy. Appliances could be excluded I suppose but this is unusual in Ontario so I think the discount in rent would be greater than your cost of just maintaining them. I am as tired as the next guy of spending $200 a year to repair a dishwasher that was just replaced because probably they don't clean it properly but it seems to me it is part of doing business.
I just don't want to be called in about this stuff as I won't be living in the country, so I don't have a problem giving a discount which will for sure benefit the tenant greatly. But if they really insist this being the law, they can have my unit at the market price :)
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Nov 13, 2013
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BiegeToyota wrote: I just don't want to be called in about this stuff as I won't be living in the country, so I don't have a problem giving a discount which will for sure benefit the tenant greatly. But if they really insist this being the law, they can have my unit at the market price :)
Seems like you could end up giving them rent at below market rate and they still end up demanding you repair the appliances.
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Sep 8, 2007
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fogetmylogin wrote: Seems like you could end up giving them rent at below market rate and they still end up demanding you repair the appliances.
In Ontario landlord always lose. Yeah could be like if snow shovelling by the tenant was written in to the lease. If they don’t do it, nothing you can do.

They will always make bold claims how they love gardening, mowing the lawn, shovelling but most of the time they will just walk by it all with a bag of chips and 2l pop on their way inside.
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Jul 4, 2006
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I'm not sure that you can contract it out. Why don't you just get a property management firm to deal with it? You won't be the first overseas landlord.

Source: http://www.sjto.gov.on.ca/documents/ltb ... 20(EN).pdf
The Residential Tenancies Act (RTA) sets out the obligations landlords and tenants each have for the
maintenance and repair of a rental property. This brochure explains some of these obligations.
These obligations apply to all rental agreements, even if:
  • the rental agreement is not in writing
  • terms in the rental agreement conflict with the RTA
  • the rental unit was not in good condition and the tenant agreed to rent it anyway
Repair the rental property
A landlord must keep a rental property in a good state of repair. All things that the landlord provides to the tenant
must be kept in working order. This could include:
  • Electrical, plumbing or heating systems
  • Appliances
  • Carpets in the unit or common areas
  • Walls, roofs, ceilings
  • Windows, doors, locks, lighting
  • Garages, laundry rooms, patios, walkways or pools
If something no longer works due to normal wear and tear or because it breaks or wears out, the landlord must
repair it so that it works properly, or replace it. When something is replaced, however, the landlord does not have
to supply a new or better model.
For example, if a stove supplied by the landlord cannot be fixed and must be replaced, it does not have to be
replaced with a newer model with more features. Also, the landlord could replace it with a used stove, as long as
the used stove works properly.
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Jul 14, 2008
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BiegeToyota wrote: If I rent out a place, can I make a condition for blinds, and appliances to be tenant's responsibility? For example, I state that appliances are not included, but will be left available for tenant's use? If something breaks down it is their responsibility to repair or replace,

I would be offering my unit below market rate for this exemption.
When you say appliances will be “left available” are you saying you DO have appliances in the rental which they can use, but your rent is discounted because they are responsible for repairs? If so, then no, not legal. You will always be responsible for repairs of your appliances, regardless what the lease stipulates.

Regarding blinds, I don’t think that meets a minimum standard of habitation, but the question is, do you want your tenant to actually screw and mount (and dismount when they terminate) these blinds? I wouldn’t.

I think you just need to stomach what you need to minimally include in a property for lease (such as the appliances, window treatments, etc), and that you are responsible for its upkeep and maintainance. And if you really want to avoid the potential calls from tenants, hire a management firm to look after it and consider it a cost of doing business and call it a day.
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Jun 26, 2005
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onlineharvest wrote: When you say appliances will be “left available” are you saying you DO have appliances in the rental which they can use, but your rent is discounted because they are responsible for repairs? If so, then no, not legal. You will always be responsible for repairs of your appliances, regardless what the lease stipulates.

Regarding blinds, I don’t think that meets a minimum standard of habitation, but the question is, do you want your tenant to actually screw and mount (and dismount when they terminate) these blinds? I wouldn’t.

I think you just need to stomach what you need to minimally include in a property for lease (such as the appliances, window treatments, etc), and that you are responsible for its upkeep and maintainance. And if you really want to avoid the potential calls from tenants, hire a management firm to look after it and consider it a cost of doing business and call it a day.
How come it's illegal to leave appliances there but won't fix? Given the lease states the appliances are there as a courtesy and not part of the lease?

How about you take away appliances and leave the hollow hole there. Then the tenants know they have to buy or rent appliances. Is that legal then?

The Act actually states what appliances a landlord must provide? I would think dishwasher is a bonus, not a mandatory equipment. I know many people don't have dishwashers. Same with washer dryer, many people have to use laundry mats.

Like my last tenant left his small oven there, so I also leave it there for the next tenant. But it isn't part of the equipment that's included per se, so if that breaks, I don't plan on replacing it with a new one or fixing it. It was a bonus left over. Like a Nepresso machine, if last tenant left it there. I ain't gonna remove it on purpose.
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Jul 14, 2008
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rfdrfd wrote: How come it's illegal to leave appliances there but won't fix? Given the lease states the appliances are there as a courtesy and not part of the lease?

How about you take away appliances and leave the hollow hole there. Then the tenants know they have to buy or rent appliances. Is that legal then?

The Act actually states what appliances a landlord must provide? I would think dishwasher is a bonus, not a mandatory equipment. I know many people don't have dishwashers. Same with washer dryer, many people have to use laundry mats.

Like my last tenant left his small oven there, so I also leave it there for the next tenant. But it isn't part of the equipment that's included per se, so if that breaks, I don't plan on replacing it with a new one or fixing it. It was a bonus left over. Like a Nepresso machine, if last tenant left it there. I ain't gonna remove it on purpose.
It's vague, but what I'm seeing from 'tenant rights' information online, if you have an appliance in the unit, you ARE responsible for its repair if it breaks down. So if you said nothing about the toaster oven not being included in the agreement (of small appliances not covered), by virtue of its absence you are responsible for it.

The other question is, can a landlord rent out a unit without any major appliances? It looks like they can, however hard to tell - not a lot of info on that (e.g., what is a habitable space). It would hurt your competitiveness. Which tenant in their right mind is going to fork out thousands for appliances, and then move them out, etc. Unless they have no need, which is fine if you think of a dishwasher, but no stove or even more basic, a fridge?

The other thing I seemed to glean was that if the appliance is in the unit (a major appliance), you pretty much are responsible for it. Small appliance perhaps not (if you write it out during the agreement), but saying "hey, all the major appliance are there. You can use them, but if they break it's on you" - NO. I'm confident that is definitely not allowed.

I get the idea of limiting your exposure as a landlord - being one myself - but this kind of skirting pretty much established practice is unnecessary. If that's a problem, either don't be a landlord and buy a REIT instead, or just get insurance/warranties to cover your exposure (and this would be a business expense, so don't skimp! lol)

And FYI, you don't need to replace these appliance with new appliances. It can be used, etc. But a proper long-term warranty even from the manufacturer covering you from soup to nuts, and consider it a business expense. Or just repair as needed, etc. Not a big deal.
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Jun 26, 2005
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onlineharvest wrote: It's vague, but what I'm seeing from 'tenant rights' information online, if you have an appliance in the unit, you ARE responsible for its repair if it breaks down. So if you said nothing about the toaster oven not being included in the agreement (of small appliances not covered), by virtue of its absence you are responsible for it.

The other question is, can a landlord rent out a unit without any major appliances? It looks like they can, however hard to tell - not a lot of info on that (e.g., what is a habitable space). It would hurt your competitiveness. Which tenant in their right mind is going to fork out thousands for appliances, and then move them out, etc. Unless they have no need, which is fine if you think of a dishwasher, but no stove or even more basic, a fridge?

The other thing I seemed to glean was that if the appliance is in the unit (a major appliance), you pretty much are responsible for it. Small appliance perhaps not (if you write it out during the agreement), but saying "hey, all the major appliance are there. You can use them, but if they break it's on you" - NO. I'm confident that is definitely not allowed.

I get the idea of limiting your exposure as a landlord - being one myself - but this kind of skirting pretty much established practice is unnecessary. If that's a problem, either don't be a landlord and buy a REIT instead, or just get insurance/warranties to cover your exposure (and this would be a business expense, so don't skimp! lol)

And FYI, you don't need to replace these appliance with new appliances. It can be used, etc. But a proper long-term warranty even from the manufacturer covering you from soup to nuts, and consider it a business expense. Or just repair as needed, etc. Not a big deal.
So to answer the ops original question, if he seriously don't want to be legally responsible for taking care of appliances, big or small, then he should remove them (leave a hole there) and list it as is.

Yes it will hurt his units attractiveness, but legally that's what OP has to do. Then it is legal.
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May 12, 2014
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For the benefit of Quebec readers: There you can exclude appliances. And place the onus of shoveling snow on the tenant.
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Jul 3, 2011
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Very good post.
onlineharvest wrote: It's vague, but what I'm seeing from 'tenant rights' information online, if you have an appliance in the unit, you ARE responsible for its repair if it breaks down. So if you said nothing about the toaster oven not being included in the agreement (of small appliances not covered), by virtue of its absence you are responsible for it.

The other question is, can a landlord rent out a unit without any major appliances? It looks like they can, however hard to tell - not a lot of info on that (e.g., what is a habitable space). It would hurt your competitiveness. Which tenant in their right mind is going to fork out thousands for appliances, and then move them out, etc. Unless they have no need, which is fine if you think of a dishwasher, but no stove or even more basic, a fridge?

The other thing I seemed to glean was that if the appliance is in the unit (a major appliance), you pretty much are responsible for it. Small appliance perhaps not (if you write it out during the agreement), but saying "hey, all the major appliance are there. You can use them, but if they break it's on you" - NO. I'm confident that is definitely not allowed.

I get the idea of limiting your exposure as a landlord - being one myself - but this kind of skirting pretty much established practice is unnecessary. If that's a problem, either don't be a landlord and buy a REIT instead, or just get insurance/warranties to cover your exposure (and this would be a business expense, so don't skimp! lol)

And FYI, you don't need to replace these appliance with new appliances. It can be used, etc. But a proper long-term warranty even from the manufacturer covering you from soup to nuts, and consider it a business expense. Or just repair as needed, etc. Not a big deal.

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