Home & Garden

Looking to do potlights

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  • Mar 19th, 2019 8:34 am
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Jul 18, 2012
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Toronto
WorldIRC wrote: Moe just came by; very nice guy. Drew out the plan and everything for me.

Very competitive pricing for 25 lights (21 White, 4 Brushed Nickel), 1 dimmer, 1 new switch, replace 4 Halogen with 4 LEDs. 5 year warranty on all work. I think we will likely end up going with him.
Did he draw up all the required permits for the electrical work?
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Sep 27, 2003
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robbiemurray wrote: Did he draw up all the required permits for the electrical work?
ESA permits / inspection are extra and would require him to install new breaker and feeding switches. Once that's done, the ESA inspection could happen.
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Dec 5, 2016
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Just bumping this thread. WorldIRC, did you end up using Quality Potlight and how was their service?
Also did you end up getting the smooth ceilings through them?
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May 9, 2003
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WorldIRC wrote: ESA permits / inspection are extra and would require him to install new breaker and feeding switches. Once that's done, the ESA inspection could happen.
alucky17 wrote: Just bumping this thread. WorldIRC, did you end up using Quality Potlight and how was their service?
Also did you end up getting the smooth ceilings through them?
I would like to know also. Did you go with the ESA inspection as well? Is ESA mandatory for this type of job?
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Sep 27, 2003
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Hi Guys,

I'm getting the Potlights installed by Quality Potlight on April 13. Most responsive and came to the house to provide a proper assessment.

He does not require me to do an ESA inspection but did offer it. In order to do ESA, I'd have to make a modification to the breaker, add feeding switches, and pay the permit (basically an extra $440 + tax).

As for the ceilings, they do not do ceiling work (other than patching fixture holes). We will decide on the ceilings when we paint (after the potlights are done).

Thanks
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Feb 20, 2017
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WorldIRC wrote: Hi Guys,

I'm getting the Potlights installed by Quality Potlight on April 13. Most responsive and came to the house to provide a proper assessment.

He does not require me to do an ESA inspection but did offer it. In order to do ESA, I'd have to make a modification to the breaker, add feeding switches, and pay the permit (basically an extra $440 + tax).

As for the ceilings, they do not do ceiling work (other than patching fixture holes). We will decide on the ceilings when we paint (after the potlights are done).

Thanks
I'd love to hear what you do regarding the popcorn ceiling. I'm going to add pot lights to our basement but it has popcorn ceiling, not sure if I just want to remove the ceiling do the pot lights then do drywall.

Good luck!
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Jul 4, 2004
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WorldIRC wrote: Hi Guys,

I'm getting the Potlights installed by Quality Potlight on April 13. Most responsive and came to the house to provide a proper assessment.

He does not require me to do an ESA inspection but did offer it. In order to do ESA, I'd have to make a modification to the breaker, add feeding switches, and pay the permit (basically an extra $440 + tax).

As for the ceilings, they do not do ceiling work (other than patching fixture holes). We will decide on the ceilings when we paint (after the potlights are done).

Thanks
The permit isn't really optional FYI so I'd be leery of an electrician offering that sort of thing as the penalties for working without a permit are significant. He's probably making it sound more complex than it really is for you not to opt for the permit.

But stop and think about it.

To do it to code, he's telling you it would require some modifications that he is NOT GOING TO BOTHER doing without a permit. So is it safe? Who knows. Might as well check their liability insurance is paid up.
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Sep 27, 2003
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Drew_W wrote: The permit isn't really optional FYI so I'd be leery of an electrician offering that sort of thing as the penalties for working without a permit are significant. He's probably making it sound more complex than it really is for you not to opt for the permit.

But stop and think about it.

To do it to code, he's telling you it would require some modifications that he is NOT GOING TO BOTHER doing without a permit. So is it safe? Who knows. Might as well check their liability insurance is paid up.
He didn't make the ESA requirements seem complex at all. He simply said the decision is up to me. Mr Potlight is the same as are the couple other companies I spoke to. General consensus is they all seem indifferent and all are confident in the quality of their work along with the reviews to back it up. I did confirm he is fully insured.

He also did mention that at any time I could choose to do the ESA and they'd complete the required additions so that it would pass.

He finally mentioned that the most common environment where his customers will opt for the ESA stuff is when he's working on a finished basement where the wiring for the lights is brand new. In that case he would insist on the ESA permit. But since we are only working on an already finished part of the house, he didn't seem as concerned.

To be clear: He recommended the ESA stuff; but said the choice is up to me. So ya, I guess he (and many others) are willing to do the work "not to ESA requirements".

I still have a couple weeks if I want to do the ESA stuff.
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Dec 17, 2007
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If you don't won't a permit he will skip some steps and complete the job, If you want a permit he will do the required work to bring his job up to code? either way he should be doing the job up to code, then if you decide you want to get a ESA inspection all thats required is pulling a permit, no other work needed
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Jul 4, 2004
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WorldIRC wrote: He didn't make the ESA requirements seem complex at all. He simply said the decision is up to me. Mr Potlight is the same as are the couple other companies I spoke to. General consensus is they all seem indifferent and all are confident in the quality of their work along with the reviews to back it up. I did confirm he is fully insured.

He also did mention that at any time I could choose to do the ESA and they'd complete the required additions so that it would pass.

He finally mentioned that the most common environment where his customers will opt for the ESA stuff is when he's working on a finished basement where the wiring for the lights is brand new. In that case he would insist on the ESA permit. But since we are only working on an already finished part of the house, he didn't seem as concerned.

To be clear: He recommended the ESA stuff; but said the choice is up to me. So ya, I guess he (and many others) are willing to do the work "not to ESA requirements".

I still have a couple weeks if I want to do the ESA stuff.
You know that a permit is ABSOLUTELY REQUIRED for this work right? Nowhere in the code does it say "ask the client if they want it inspected, if so pull a permit".

No permit = no oversight = shortcuts. Don't really need to staple the wire, wastes time. Don't really need to use the proper connectors, those just cost money, romex through knockout will be fine. Too many devices on circuit instead of adding another breaker? It'll be fine. The sparky won't die in the house fire. ;)
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Sep 27, 2003
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Alright, I will go the ESA route to make sure all required work is done along with permit. Last thing I want is the house catching fire and insurance not paying out.
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Sep 11, 2006
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What is going on in this thread? A permit is required whether 6 inches or 600 feet of wiring are being installed. I could not understand how these pot light company's were doing their work for so cheap and now I can truly see how..
They are flat out breaking the law that's how! Take your quote and call ESA and see if ESA says " Oh yes the permit is optional" or better yet "Yes take out the permit just before the fire starts"
Seriously??
Simply put, if you want to add pot lights to a room in your home, a permit is 100% required. There is no legal way around it.
The reason they do not want to take out a permit is not to save you money, these guys are not investment bankers.. It's to save them from giving you the real cost of doing this work to code. If they give you the real "legal" cost of doing this work to code minimum, they will certainly be in competition with every other electrical contractors prices.
These guys are very much aware that adding additional lighting outlets to an existing circuit is against code period. 12 devices per circuit is code minimum.
All they are doing is adding to these already maxed out circuits and telling you a permit is not required. If you ask for a permit, they tell you a new circuit needs to be installed and the price sky rockets because THIS IS THE REAL COST OF DOING THIS WORK.
They undercut everyone else in the business by violating code and issuing customers a proper invoice to boot!
Seriously, call ESA and give them the details of your quote lol. They will probably suspend their ESA license on the spot.

I feel especially sorry for the poor master electrician they have on staff though because he/she has been signing off all of their work that is not to code and there will be serious legal consequences to pay WHEN problems finally arise, even after a few years after installation..
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Mar 3, 2013
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@WorldIRC
I would love to see the estimate that was issued to you for this work. If this company is indeed completing this work without permits, then they are indeed breaking the law. If you are truly concerned about their business practices contact the Ministry of Government and Consumer Services - consumer protection branch at 1800-889-9768. ESA will not do anything unless they are working on a particular job site, you would then file a dangers work order with them instead.
Please do not assume that just because they have a great Home Stars rating that they are doing proper work.
A Licensed Electrical Contractor
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DIrty-D wrote: What is going on in this thread? A permit is required whether 6 inches or 600 feet of wiring are being installed. I could not understand how these pot light company's were doing their work for so cheap and now I can truly see how..

I feel especially sorry for the poor master electrician they have on staff though because he/she has been signing off all of their work that is not to code and there will be serious legal consequences to pay WHEN problems finally arise, even after a few years after installation..
I would guess the master electrician is only involved on work done to code with permit pulled.
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What I find 'shocking' (see what I did there) is these companies aren't saying we'll do it to code without pulling a permit. They are telling homeowners the install isn't to code?
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Zamboni wrote: What I find 'shocking' (see what I did there) is these companies aren't saying we'll do it to code without pulling a permit. They are telling homeowners the install isn't to code?
In this case, the electrician was specific about not doing the work to code. If it was to code, the only thing they'd need to do is pull the permit (which, AFAIK, needs to be done BEFORE any work is done), and get it inspected. Not "make a modification to the breaker, add feeding switches...". I would guess that he tapped into a circuit that he shouldn't have to cut some corners.

C
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I re-read my written quote. No where is ESA optional. He did recommend it during our meeting but I guess they have made the business decision that it is up to the customer whether or not to do the ESA required activities, but that's not on paper.

I will still proceed as planned with the ESA requirements and permit and then follow up with the inspection afterwards. The pricing is still competitive.
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Lights are going in as I type this. Workers and owner arrived on time. ESA inspection is scheduled for next week.
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Now that the lights are in my family room, I've decided we will be scraping the ceilings.
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WorldIRC wrote: Now that the lights are in my family room, I've decided we will be scraping the ceilings.
Good choice, I put in one light in my basement and it looked horrendous. (we have pot lights in our kitchen) and the difference in visual look is crazy.

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