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[2024 CODE UPDATE] Ask me anything about home electrical requirements, electrical code, wiring, devices

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Deal Fanatic
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Jun 21, 2003
6323 posts
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Stoney Creek, ON
onapping wrote: Question.
I am planning to install patio at the back. Would like to run cable under the patio to the other side of the patio for plug for charging cable and led lights. I have an outdoor power socket. Can I extend from there? Do I need a permit? Ontario
Thanks
Yes you can extend from that and yes you need a permit.
Deal Addict
Oct 17, 2002
1342 posts
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Oakville
Quick question... I was going to install a new breaker (15amp) in the panel for an upcoming gas range install but thought this might be easier.

Are you allowed to 'tee' an existing circuit? (shut power off, cut one of the existing lines, connect a new wire to the cut wire from the panel and the other cut wire, and tuck everything in a junction box).
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Jun 21, 2003
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Stoney Creek, ON
KennyX wrote: Quick question... I was going to install a new breaker (15amp) in the panel for an upcoming gas range install but thought this might be easier.

Are you allowed to 'tee' an existing circuit? (shut power off, cut one of the existing lines, connect a new wire to the cut wire from the panel and the other cut wire, and tuck everything in a junction box).
There's a few considerations you need to make.

1. What is the circuit you're tapping in to? Some things require dedicated circuits so you can't add on to them. (ex. Fridge, microwave, etc. Also can't cut in to kitchen counter ones. )

2. How many devices are on the existing circuit? You're only allowed 12 total on a circuit so the existing circuit must have 11 or less devices already. Every receptacle and every light counts as a device. So you have to count up every receptacle and every light fixture on the circuit to be certain you are at 11 or less devices.
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Oct 17, 2002
1342 posts
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Oakville
ChicoQuente wrote: There's a few considerations you need to make.

1. What is the circuit you're tapping in to? Some things require dedicated circuits so you can't add on to them. (ex. Fridge, microwave, etc. Also can't cut in to kitchen counter ones. )

2. How many devices are on the existing circuit? You're only allowed 12 total on a circuit so the existing circuit must have 11 or less devices already. Every receptacle and every light counts as a device. So you have to count up every receptacle and every light fixture on the circuit to be certain you are at 11 or less devices.
Thanks - looked at it this morning. I have an unfinished basement, and was going to tap into a circuit that powered 5 ceiling lights in the basement (and 4 electrical outlets) - still debating if this is a good idea if/when we decide to finish the basement in 3-5 years, but it's the easiest solution right now.

I figure if we finish the basement, I can then install a new line directly to the panel. This is just for a gas range, which doesnt need a dedicated circuit and doesnt draw much power.
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Jun 21, 2003
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Stoney Creek, ON
KennyX wrote: Thanks - looked at it this morning. I have an unfinished basement, and was going to tap into a circuit that powered 5 ceiling lights in the basement (and 4 electrical outlets) - still debating if this is a good idea if/when we decide to finish the basement in 3-5 years, but it's the easiest solution right now.

I figure if we finish the basement, I can then install a new line directly to the panel. This is just for a gas range, which doesnt need a dedicated circuit and doesnt draw much power.
Also keep in mind this junction box has to remain accessible forever. So if you decide to finish the basement you're going to have to leave this box in the ceiling with an opening. You can't just drywall over it.

If you're planning to finish in the next few years I'd personally just spend the little extra time and money to run a circuit now as opposed to finding a way to make it look nice down the road when you decide to finish.
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Feb 3, 2005
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Georgetown
I have some questions about installing pot lights in an insulated ceiling.

First - which pot lights would people recommend? Obviously they would need to be IC rated for contact with insulation. I have been told some pot lights are crap and burn out bulbs prematurely, etc.

I’m also curious how many pot lights make sense for an area of about 22x20’... two different switches... one area about 17x13’, the other 20x9’... one open area kinda like the shape below. I was thinking 6 in the left area and 8 in the wider right area? Not sure if that would be enough - this is for a main floor living room.

________XXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXX

It would be nice if the lights could dim well (I have heard this can be tricky with LED lights, etc).

Finally, I’m curious how much I should expect to pay for a job like this in the west GTA (Halton Hills). I’m capable of doing it myself, but sometimes it’s just easier to let some else do the work... if the price is fair.

Edit: read something that implied 10 lights was appropriate for the area? I guess the exact light chosen would play a role here...
Newbie
Aug 14, 2019
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11 upvotes
Hi Guys, this question might have been answered earlier in the thread but i wasn’t able to find it...

I am finishing my basement and my electrical panel will end up being in one of the bedrooms.. now I’ve asked 2 electricians already and both said it was ok as long as there were 3 ft of access in front of the panel that can be achieved by building a shallow closet with a door in front.. doesn’t anyone have any experience with this sort of a thing and know what the code actually says?

Another question I have is around the utility room and the minimum distance between walls and furnace? Does I need to have 3 ft clear on all sides? Or just the side with the panel that comes off for service? Please let me know
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Jun 21, 2003
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Stoney Creek, ON
BargainHunterCan wrote: Hi Guys, this question might have been answered earlier in the thread but i wasn’t able to find it...

I am finishing my basement and my electrical panel will end up being in one of the bedrooms.. now I’ve asked 2 electricians already and both said it was ok as long as there were 3 ft of access in front of the panel that can be achieved by building a shallow closet with a door in front.. doesn’t anyone have any experience with this sort of a thing and know what the code actually says?

Another question I have is around the utility room and the minimum distance between walls and furnace? Does I need to have 3 ft clear on all sides? Or just the side with the panel that comes off for service? Please let me know
They are correct. The panel requires 1M of clearance directly in front of it. Typically it's more of a "cabinet" than a closet to enclose it in.

I don't believe the electrical code dictates any requirements on your HVAC location, at least not that I've ever seen. You're better off consulting an HVAC person on that one.
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Jul 4, 2006
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I have a gas range but it still uses a 110v. The 110v plug is on the same breaker as a bedroom and pot lights.

My wife and I are working in one bedroom with 3 monitors and 2 laptops (and sometimes a desktop is turned on but idle). Over the last few months during COVID, the breaker has tripped twice today when the oven is on with the convection fan on.

Should the 110V be on a dedicated breaker? I understand that it is probably a best practice, but I'm not sure what "code" is. My 1 year Tarion warranty report is due soon and the builder will only fix to "code".
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Apr 26, 2003
2761 posts
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GTA
As I noted previously, we're going to rewire the entire house to remove/upgrade from aluminum. Would it worth the cost of upgrading service to 200A. I am hoping eventually to get an EV, so a charging station at home would be nice. How would I actually do this and what might be the estimated cost? Here's some pictures of the current panel. Yes, fuses....
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Jun 21, 2003
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Stoney Creek, ON
exrcoupe wrote: As I noted previously, we're going to rewire the entire house to remove/upgrade from aluminum. Would it worth the cost of upgrading service to 200A. I am hoping eventually to get an EV, so a charging station at home would be nice. How would I actually do this and what might be the estimated cost? Here's some pictures of the current panel. Yes, fuses....
It's definitely a worthwhile upgrade especially if you want to get a good EV charger down the road. As well if you want to replace that fuse panel with breakers the time to do the upgrade is then. If you were to change over to a 100A breaker panel and then upgrade down the road you'd be ripping off r to your new breaker panel to replace it again.

Cost will depend where you are and what local rates are like. I'd plan for a few thousand for it though. To upgrade to 200A you'll be replacing everything from the panel back to where Hydro's wires come to your home, which I'm guessing is overhead. So you're replacing the panel, conduit from panel to meter base, meter base and the service mast which is the conduit on the outside of your house that runs up to connect to the overheard lines. As well of course all of the wire connecting all of that. Hydro will have to upgrade your lines as well. I've been seeing posts on here of people saying they've been charged for this. In the past when I was doing them regularly (last one around 3 years ago) I never once saw hydro charge a customer for that.

I assume you're bringing in an electrician for the rewiring of your home? The most logical route would be to have them quote this job. They would then ask hydro for a survey to confirm you're allowed to upgrade (depends on the current loading of the transformer your home is fed from) and if so they'd coordinate everything. It's not a huge job and can often be done in half a day. Odds are that electrician is going to be your best price since they are already on site.
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Apr 26, 2003
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GTA
I don't have a mast, there are no wires coming into my house in Scarborough, so I guess it's buried. The panel is basically below the meter in the basement, so it's not far. For sure we're replacing the panel to breakers.

I have a GC who is coordinating the electrician and considered upgrading to 200A, but not sure what would be involved with it. The GC didn't think a 200A service would be needed, but long term if I don't do it now, I won't do it later.
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Jun 21, 2003
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Stoney Creek, ON
exrcoupe wrote: I don't have a mast, there are no wires coming into my house in Scarborough, so I guess it's buried. The panel is basically below the meter in the basement, so it's not far. For sure we're replacing the panel to breakers.

I have a GC who is coordinating the electrician and considered upgrading to 200A, but not sure what would be involved with it. The GC didn't think a 200A service would be needed, but long term if I don't do it now, I won't do it later.
Okay so you have an underground service, much more pleasant to see than overhead! It's still basically the same process except there's a little less material since you don't have a mast to replace. It will still be everything replaced. The 2 conduits under your meter base, meter base, panel and conduit between meter and panel long with all the wire.

The tricky part is that there is a lot more work for hydro since the lines are buried in the ground as opposed to overhead. If you're lucky they are already oversized but I'm not sure how common that is.

If I were you I'd have the electrician quote the job and go from there. It's really the only way you're going to be able to make your decision on whether you want to or not.

If it was me and comfortable with spending a few extra thousand on the job I'd do it. Like you said if not now then likely never. You'd waste a lot of money by just changing to a 100A panel and then deciding to upgrade in 5 years.
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Dec 19, 2005
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Toronto
Previous owner added these lights under the kitchen cabinets. Can anyone offer advice on how to remove these lights? There aren’t any screws from above. Afraid to pull too hard and damage the cabinet.
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Deal Addict
Apr 26, 2003
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GTA
ChicoQuente wrote: Okay so you have an underground service, much more pleasant to see than overhead! It's still basically the same process except there's a little less material since you don't have a mast to replace. It will still be everything replaced. The 2 conduits under your meter base, meter base, panel and conduit between meter and panel long with all the wire.

The tricky part is that there is a lot more work for hydro since the lines are buried in the ground as opposed to overhead. If you're lucky they are already oversized but I'm not sure how common that is.

If I were you I'd have the electrician quote the job and go from there. It's really the only way you're going to be able to make your decision on whether you want to or not.

If it was me and comfortable with spending a few extra thousand on the job I'd do it. Like you said if not now then likely never. You'd waste a lot of money by just changing to a 100A panel and then deciding to upgrade in 5 years.
Been re-thinking about it and the GC said that if I don't have a basement kitchen, having 200A would be kind of overkill. Could I get a 200A panel installed now with 100A service still coming into the house and upgrade the city service later? Not sure if that works or not?
EscaBoi wrote: Previous owner added these lights under the kitchen cabinets. Can anyone offer advice on how to remove these lights? There aren’t any screws from above. Afraid to pull too hard and damage the cabinet.
I think you have to remove the bulbs first and you'll probably see the screws in the housing underneath the bulbs.
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Jun 21, 2003
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Stoney Creek, ON
exrcoupe wrote: Been re-thinking about it and the GC said that if I don't have a basement kitchen, having 200A would be kind of overkill. Could I get a 200A panel installed now with 100A service still coming into the house and upgrade the city service later? Not sure if that works or not?



I think you have to remove the bulbs first and you'll probably see the screws in the housing underneath the bulbs.
It would not be practical and a waste of money. If you decide to upgrade down the road someone is still going to have to take the new panel off the wall to replace the conduit from meter base to panel. You would also need to replace the 200A breaker in your new panel with a 100A breaker. You can’t use a bigger breaker than your service is rated for. If you don’t upgrade the service then the wires are only rated for 100A and therefore must be protected with a 100A breaker.

If you don’t want to go ahead with the upgrade now I would just go with a panel change rated at your existing service.
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Oct 26, 2003
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Winnipeg
KennyX wrote: So it looks like I have a Federal Pioneer Stab-lok panel. Should I be concerned?
I've been reading that the US variants, Federal Pacific Stab-lok should all be replaced, but I cant seem to find anything definitive with the CDN Federal Pioneer versions?
I have a 125amp panel.
Yeah they are a fire hazard. When you want to replace it is up to you.
Deal Expert
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Oct 26, 2003
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Winnipeg
Kursor17 wrote: Question for Electricians: Is Copper Clad Aluminum (CCA) in low voltage wiring (e.g. CAT5e and CAT6) in residential new construction in-wall against code? Yes or No?
Not against code but just don't ever use it.
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Oct 26, 2003
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Winnipeg
poorwingman wrote: I have a gas range but it still uses a 110v. The 110v plug is on the same breaker as a bedroom and pot lights.
My wife and I are working in one bedroom with 3 monitors and 2 laptops (and sometimes a desktop is turned on but idle). Over the last few months during COVID, the breaker has tripped twice today when the oven is on with the convection fan on.
Should the 110V be on a dedicated breaker? I understand that it is probably a best practice, but I'm not sure what "code" is. My 1 year Tarion warranty report is due soon and the builder will only fix to "code".
Wait your house is new within 1 year old and some idiot didn't allow dedicated circuit for a gas range? Why is no one fired?

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