Mayor Rob Ford had no authority to cancel Transit City, lawyers say

[manmanny]

Now this is why people hate Toronto when Adam Giam says Its not our money we paid for these buses.
So who paid for this? Canadian taxpayer.

----------Oct 18 2008

The TTC is going back to buying diesel buses because the batteries on its newer hybrid diesel-electric models are proving too "hit and miss."

An existing order for 130 hybrids next year will go ahead, but next week TTC staff will recommend the commission approve a $61 million order for "clean diesel" buses in 2010.

Much of the financing for the new buses came from Ottawa, which gave the TTC $303.5 million last March – enough to buy almost 700 of the new hybrids. Heavily touted at the time were the reputed environmental benefits – 37 per cent fewer greenhouse gas emissions, 30-50 per cent fewer emissions of harmful particulates, nitrous oxide emissions cut by 30 to 50 per cent and 20 to 30 per cent less fuel. There will be 564 hybrids on Toronto streets by the end of the year, about one-third of the TTC's 1,700-vehicle fleet.

"We have to have a bus that we can rely on," said Ross. "The batteries are dying much sooner than they ought to."

The TTC is going back to buying diesel buses because the batteries on its newer hybrid diesel-electric models are proving too "hit and miss."

An existing order for 130 hybrids next year will go ahead, but next week TTC staff will recommend the commission approve a $61 million order for "clean diesel" buses in 2010.

The remaining 2009 hybrids will be delivered with Chrysler's new lithium-ion batteries rather than the lead-acid cells already in use on the TTC fleet. The TTC wants to test the newer batteries but isn't prepared to commit to that technology, said spokesperson Brad Ross, who didn't rule out the possibility of trying hybrids again after the 2010 order.

Much of the financing for the new buses came from Ottawa, which gave the TTC $303.5 million last March – enough to buy almost 700 of the new hybrids. Heavily touted at the time were the reputed environmental benefits – 37 per cent fewer greenhouse gas emissions, 30-50 per cent fewer emissions of harmful particulates, nitrous oxide emissions cut by 30 to 50 per cent and 20 to 30 per cent less fuel. There will be 564 hybrids on Toronto streets by the end of the year, about one-third of the TTC's 1,700-vehicle fleet.

"We have to have a bus that we can rely on," said Ross. "The batteries are dying much sooner than they ought to."

Batteries that should be lasting five years are surviving only about 18 months, which affects service because those buses have to come off the road for repairs, he said.

The hybrids have also failed to live up to projected fuel savings because the technology is most beneficial in stop-and-go downtown traffic and there are a limited number of such routes, Ross said. Many TTC routes operate in less busy residential neighbourhoods.

It was hoped the hybrid buses would save 20 to 30 per cent on fuel but they are achieving only about a 10 per cent saving, he said.

The TTC will save about $24 million by ordering diesel rather than hybrid because diesel buses cost about $200,000 less than the $700,000 hybrid models, he added.

[flashy_mcflash]

You can't even post an article right.

[vero95]

if Ford has no authority to cancel the project, he should dissolve the City Council

[flashy_mcflash]

if Ford has no authority to cancel the project, he should dissolve the City Council

He has no authority to do that either. Hate to tell you, but we didn't elect a king.

[KangFu]

To these people in favour of Ford's subway extension out to Scarborough.. Do you live in scarborough or something? They are already well served with a line going to STC.
Transit city would have benefited millions in Toronto a city that has the longest RUSH hour commute in the nation and busiest highways in the world.

You can dream as much as you want with Ford about a complex underground network to serve all of the city.. We will all be dead by the time funding comes for that. LRT makes sense and is the best solution for this city with skyrocketing growth.

If Anything, F*** Scarborough and it's ghetto's they should extend Kipling out to Mississauga up into Square One and eventually YYZ. That makes so much more sense since Peel region is a hotspot for growing companies and decent paying jobs, as well as a subway into Pearson would benefit EVERYONE.

[Fac1]

To these people in favour of Ford's subway extension out to Scarborough.. Do you live in scarborough or something? They are already well served with a line going to STC.
Transit city would have benefited millions in Toronto a city that has the longest RUSH hour commute in the nation and busiest highways in the world.

You can dream as much as you want with Ford about a complex underground network to serve all of the city.. We will all be dead by the time funding comes for that. LRT makes sense and is the best solution for this city with skyrocketing growth.

If Anything, F*** Scarborough and it's ghetto's they should extend Kipling out to Mississauga up into Square One and eventually YYZ. That makes so much more sense since Peel region is a hotspot for companies and decent paying jobs as well as a subway into Pearson would benefit EVERYONE.

Build out the subway further west into areas that don't require underground rail and that aren't even a part of the city? Who pays for that? Heavy rail transit's objective is not long distance. Further, I'd love to see how the system, which is already packed to capacity, would be able to support even more suburban riders without any infrastructure upgrade. As much as a subway to the airport would be nice, I'd rather see that money put on routes that will reduce the congestion you already mentioned - LRT on Finch, Sheppard, Jane, etc... (I believe this was called Transit... City? ) Subway expansion should be kept in the inner city, NOT THE SUBURBS. Atop the priority list should be a downtown relief line, not an extension to Woodbridge and Richmond Hill. This system is going to fall apart unless more intelligent upgrades occur.

[manmanny]

You can't even post an article right.

?


Anybody who lived the Sheppard subway construction nightmare can't imagine Chaos with LRT construction on Eglinton. or even Subway.
Subway is expensive but will be much better utilized than Sheppard.

[flashy_mcflash]

The only thing this Sheppard Subway would do is feed into an already overtaxed Yonge Line. People are not travelling out to Scarborough in numbers that make a subway worthwhile.

[flashy_mcflash]

Subway is expensive but will be much better utilized than Sheppard.

There is literally no evidence for this, and in fact there is a ton of evidence proving that it won't be used enough to justify it.

[Fac1]

?


Anybody who lived the Sheppard subway construction nightmare can't imagine Chaos with LRT construction on Eglinton. or even Subway.
Subway is expensive but will be much better utilized than Sheppard.

If we are to get more subway, I can think of a whole host of better candidates than Sheppard...

[manmanny]

If we are to get more subway, I can think of a whole host of better candidates than Sheppard...

Taxpayers money should spent wisely and Toronto Transit problems be reduced. It can never be solved. Be it Subway or LRT.
It doesn't matter if the idea is from Left or Right.
But that's the problems Left and right never compromise and Toronto council like to waste tax payers money without any results.

[manmanny]

There is literally no evidence for this, and in fact there is a ton of evidence proving that it won't be used enough to justify it.

Then why build LRT or even Subway. Just stick with Bus 34 to Eglinton stations?

[flashy_mcflash]

Then why build LRT or even Subway. Just stick with Bus 34 to Eglinton stations?

BECAUSE AN LRT WOULD SERVE THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE ON THE ROUTE!! Sweet tapdancing Christ.

This is like you contemplating buying a car. Let's say you're looking for something to transport a family of four. You're suggesting that you buy a double-decker bus (in this analogy, this is the subway) when in reality a more appropriate solution is a four-door car. The subway is a much much bigger waste of money.

[manmanny]

BECAUSE AN LRT WOULD SERVE THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE ON THE ROUTE!! Sweet tapdancing Christ.

This is like you contemplating buying a car. Let's say you're looking for something to transport a family of four. You're suggesting that you buy a double-decker bus (in this analogy, this is the subway) when in reality a more appropriate solution is a four-door car. The subway is a much much bigger waste of money.

Stop shouting. That doesn't make your point valid.

[Fac1]

Taxpayers money should spent wisely and Toronto Transit problems be reduced. It can never be solved. Be it Subway or LRT.
It doesn't matter if the idea is from Left or Right.
But that's the problems Left and right never compromise and Toronto council like to waste tax payers money without any results.

If taxpayers' money is to be spent wisely, not a cent will be spent on a Sheppard subway, just as nothing should have been spent on its current iteration. It's rather telling that Ford promised private money to fund it; even he knew that wouldn't happen. Considering the Yonge and Bloor lines are inching towards 100% capacity, I don't see how it's at all prudent to expand into the suburbs. Load balancing is required, build a DRL when the capital is available, until then invest in LRT.