Cell Phones

[Merged] CRTC gets earful on 3-year cellphone contracts

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  • Feb 12th, 2013 5:24 pm
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kingofwale wrote:
Dec 9th, 2012 2:16 pm
i encourage everyone to buy Nexus 4 and go with contract-free. :)

although the fact a lot of the better plans from phone companies (6GB for 30 dollars) requires 3 year contracts... that's something CRTC needs to look into
Sorry but I have to disagree. I can charge whatever I want for my product. It's your choice to signup or not. I stay in business because enough people buy my product, if they do not I will need to re-price it or go out of business. Simple as that.

Price fixing? Different story but much much harder to prove.

But nexus 4 is a great device by the sound of it so all the power to you if you opt to get it.

Some folks on here seem to be under the impression that having the latest iphone for under $200 or $10 data plan is their god given right just because you can get it for that price down in the states or in a small dark corner of Denmark.
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There isn't much point arguing here because the general consumer market is the largest problem. The general consumer wants the subsidy regardless of term and unfortunately we are the ones having to convince others to not sign them, which is not always an easy task. I mean I had a friend who signed a 3 year for the LG Neon after telling him not too and low and behold it stopped working shortly after to which managed to convince to buy an unlocked phone rather than cancel/resign.

The second largest problem in my opinion is the lack of good prepaid options. Government should mandate competitive wholesaling of the Big 3 networks similar to home internet. The prepaid options in Canada that run on the Big 3 are a complete joke in terms of plans are similarly priced as the Big 3 and/or there very basic in terms of features like minutes. I'm sure many don't necessarily have a problem with BYOD, since we either all have phones or can get one easily, but considering the prepaid market is horrible I can see why people sign contracts in that they pay the same rate plan as someone on postpaid.
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Anyone remember when Bell & Rogers didn't have 3 year contracts but Telus did? They used to sell it as an advantage over the other two! "If you choose Telus you'll be locked in to the same low rate plan for 3 years vs only two years with the competition!"
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I hear people saying vote with your wallet. How do we do that if all the major carriers that have good coverage and LTE nationwide, all offer the same prices and pretty much mirror one another so there is no competition. Well...where's the competition and choice for the consumer in that? So for many people in Canada, where the Big 3 are the only option, you can't vote with your wallet if you need mobile service.
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Mark77 wrote:
Dec 9th, 2012 3:07 pm
Nobody is forced onto a contract in Canada. One can buy basically any modern phone that takes a SIM card and get an extremely affordable plan with Bell/Rogers/Telus and the various discount brands. "Contracts" are basically financing plans, designed to provide financing for expensive handsets that people otherwise don't want to buy with cash up-front. The 'contract' model is so lucrative that cell phone companies can set up those expensive kiosks in the shopping malls.

I don't feel that government should be interfering in the pricing plans of private businesses such as Bell/Telus/Rogers. It is a notoriously competitive marketplace. At best, if the government wants to do something, it should offer calculators on a website to calculate the 'implied' interest rate of a cell phone up-front purchase, versus financing it on a 3-year loan.
How is getting a phone off contract with one of the big three affordable when they charge the same amount for the monthly plans whether you take a subsidized phone or not? It's notoriously not a competitive marketplace where they will usually introduce the same exact plans within a day of each other making the choice pretty moot.
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wrdeal24 wrote:
Dec 9th, 2012 4:25 pm
How is getting a phone off contract with one of the big three affordable when they charge the same amount for the monthly plans whether you take a subsidized phone or not?
Not true. The prices "without contract" are dramatically lower than the contract prices because there's no $400-$600 phone to make payments on. Typically in the range of $20/month of a 'contract' phone price goes towards hardware financing, which means that your non-contract, month-to-month plan is typically around $20 less expensive.

Obviously you're not a very savvy shopper in the marketplace if you're getting the same quotes for a plan that includes financing of a phone, versus one where you supply your own hardware.
TodayHello wrote:
Oct 16th, 2012 9:06 pm
...The Banks are smarter than you - they have floors full of people whose job it is to read Mark77 posts...
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X-Nemesis wrote:
Dec 9th, 2012 4:18 pm
I hear people saying vote with your wallet. How do we do that if all the major carriers that have good coverage and LTE nationwide, all offer the same prices and pretty much mirror one another so there is no competition. Well...where's the competition and choice for the consumer in that? So for many people in Canada, where the Big 3 are the only option, you can't vote with your wallet if you need mobile service.
Again with the feature entitlements. Tell me how did you survive last year without LTE? Did you life drastically degrade because apps were taking 20 seconds longer to download?

Vote with your wallet means being prudent with your money. Do you need LTE? Do you need 6Gigs data? How about this, how about calling your Rogers retention department and voicing that you're not happy with the price you pay. My bet is you can get something out of this. Worst case, scale down on usage, get a basic plan, don't splurge on the latest iToy right off the bat. If enough people stop acting like blindsided consumers in this country you bet there will be changes in pricing. What's the motivation for a company to lower prices if demand is there.

Remember, the iPhone 5 sold millions of units in the space of a few days. Majority of which were upgrades so the majority of folks did not feel 3 years to be an issue at the time of purchase.

And what do we actually expect the CRTC to do? Come in and say thou shall not charge more than what, $10 for a gig of data? Then what, wind and mobilicity are suddenly out of business. Budget brands go poof. You think the landscape will be any prettier?

The only way to change this is if we as consumers change.
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Mark77 wrote:
Dec 9th, 2012 4:30 pm
Not true. The prices "without contract" are dramatically lower than the contract prices because there's no $400-$600 phone to make payments on. Typically in the range of $20/month of a 'contract' phone price goes towards hardware financing, which means that your non-contract, month-to-month plan is typically around $20 less expensive.

Obviously you're not a very savvy shopper in the marketplace if you're getting the same quotes for a plan that includes financing of a phone, versus one where you supply your own hardware.
I'm sure he's talking about data. If there was a way to get data with Robellus at a lower price if you bought the phone I would defiantly do it :|
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Could you give an example, Rogers has the same $65 plan whether I want a phone or not.
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X-Nemesis wrote:
Dec 9th, 2012 4:18 pm
I hear people saying vote with your wallet. How do we do that if all the major carriers that have good coverage and LTE nationwide, all offer the same prices and pretty much mirror one another so there is no competition. Well...where's the competition and choice for the consumer in that? So for many people in Canada, where the Big 3 are the only option, you can't vote with your wallet if you need mobile service.
Go to Wind and be like, "YO DAWG, STOP EXPANDIN' TO OTHEH AREAZ, FIX YO ***** IN THE GTA CUZ YOU GOTZ MOE POTENTIAL CUSTOMERS n' ***** "

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ichpen wrote:
Dec 9th, 2012 4:37 pm
Again with the feature entitlements. Tell me how did you survive last year without LTE? Did you life drastically degrade because apps were taking 20 seconds longer to download?

Vote with your wallet means being prudent with your money. Do you need LTE? Do you need 6Gigs data? How about this, how about calling your Rogers retention department and voicing that you're not happy with the price you pay. My bet is you can get something out of this. Worst case, scale down on usage, get a basic plan, don't splurge on the latest iToy right off the bat. If enough people stop acting like blindsided consumers in this country you bet there will be changes in pricing. What's the motivation for a company to lower prices if demand is there.
Don't need LTE, need 3g data. Rogers charges same on both.
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I'm with WIND and for my purposes it works great, and I really love not having to worry about whether I'm about to go over or have already gone over my data limit. I wonder how many people on the big 3 cannot use their phones the way they really want to because of the plans that are offered and the prices that they are charging and that there is no competition where they live, and worrying about getting nailed to the wall with overage charges?

Using a smartphone as powerful as they are becoming but always having to worry about going over your data limit really hampers one's ability to enjoy the phone I think.

Nope, I don't think people NEED LTE, but I believe that like Dial-up, consumers that switch to LTE have no desire to go back to where they were. I am in total agreeance with you though, that yes, the best and most effective way to change the kind of offers that the Big 3 are giving is to bit the bullet and not agree to expensive long term contracts, en masse.
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igotskill wrote:
Dec 9th, 2012 4:38 pm
I'm sure he's talking about data. If there was a way to get data with Robellus at a lower price if you bought the phone I would defiantly do it :|
There is a significant difference in monthly cost for supply-your-own USB or internal (ie: miniPCI-E or embedded into a tablet) 3G/4G/LTE data radio versus taking a subsidized USB stick (or tablet) from all of the Canadian cell providers that I'm aware of.

The bottom line is that if you want to carry a $500 phone in your pocket, you're going to have to pay for it. "Contracts" bundle a financing plan for the phone with cell service. All of the carriers offer plans and options for individuals who do not want to make use of bundled service and hardware financing.

Personally I liken those kiosks at the malls, and the stores, to be like car dealerships. A Ford dealer isn't going to sell you a brand new Chevy, even if the Chevy would be better for your needs. At some level, a consumer needs to shop around. Merely banning a popular option in the marketplace isn't going to help consumers.
TodayHello wrote:
Oct 16th, 2012 9:06 pm
...The Banks are smarter than you - they have floors full of people whose job it is to read Mark77 posts...
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wrdeal24 wrote:
Dec 9th, 2012 4:40 pm
Could you give an example, Rogers has the same $65 plan whether I want a phone or not.
Call them up, tell them that you have your own compatible phone and just need a SIM. The price is significantly less. The plans should be on the website, but its not all that well publicized.
TodayHello wrote:
Oct 16th, 2012 9:06 pm
...The Banks are smarter than you - they have floors full of people whose job it is to read Mark77 posts...
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X-Nemesis wrote:
Dec 9th, 2012 4:43 pm
I'm with WIND and for my purposes it works great, and I really love not having to worry about whether I'm about to go over or have already gone over my data limit. I wonder how many people on the big 3 cannot use their phones the way they really want to because of the plans that are offered and the prices that they are charging and that there is no competition where they live, and worrying about getting nailed to the wall with overage charges?

Using a smartphone as powerful as they are becoming but always having to worry about going over your data limit really hampers one's ability to enjoy the phone I think.

Nope, I don't think people NEED LTE, but I believe that like Dial-up, consumers that switch to LTE have no desire to go back to where they were. I am in total agreeance with you though, that yes, the best and most effective way to change the kind of offers that the Big 3 are giving is to bit the bullet and not agree to expensive long term contracts, en masse.
You know what else hampers one's ability to enjoy the phone? No reception. Unless you follow the same work/school-home routine daily and it works for you, Wind is a fail.
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