Cell Phones

[Merged] CRTC gets earful on 3-year cellphone contracts

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  • Feb 12th, 2013 5:24 pm
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Aug 8, 2010
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onlineharvest wrote:
Dec 12th, 2012 1:11 am
Can someone please explain why the hell people are DEFENDING the 3 year contract? Are you having brain farts?!

Other countries have shorter terms, lower phone prices, better and lower plan price, and even lower outright phone prices. Do you not want something to change here? Not saying the CRTC is our best ally to do this, but nonetheless, surprised at how dear the slave contract is to people.

If I was an executive for any of the Big 3 and saw how people on bargain hunting websites actively defend a 3 year slave contract, man, would I be a happy SOB and know I don't have to change A THING.
I dont think anyone is defending 3 year contracts vs other countries. We are talking about 3 year contracts vs no contract in THIS country.
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vermit25 wrote:
Dec 12th, 2012 8:42 am
I dont think anyone is defending 3 year contracts vs other countries. We are talking about 3 year contracts vs no contract in THIS country.
Obviously. But that was my point.
If you defend the status quo HERE, when it is better EVERY WHERE ELSE, what hope do you have of changing anything for the better?

I am a little surprised that on a deals website, the 3 year slave contract is defended as being optimal. That's all.
When a Rogers/Telus/Bell exec reads how people are so fond of signing a contract for 3 years and agree to its restrictions and potential financial penalties, even if you were to save some money over the 36 month term, I still think the big 3 are the true winner.
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(Lets not talk about wind right now as I have plenty friends that are on wind that complain about coverage all the time but stick to wind cause of cost, I like many others will not sacrifice coverage for cost)

As things are right now, I prefer being on contract. I get an almost free phone with a good plan and good coverage at a reasonable cost.

But if we were to get rid of contracts, then maybe providers would lower hardware costs to be competitive.
This is provided that wireless providers are the ones setting the prices and not the OEMs.
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Nov 27, 2004
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~$50-100 difference in phones between US 2 year plan vs Canada 3 year plan.

As Canadians, we're paying $50-100 less but have to be locked in for an extra year. Our plans cost more and has less features.
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tmpz wrote:
Dec 12th, 2012 12:51 pm
~$50-100 difference in phones between US 2 year plan vs Canada 3 year plan.

As Canadians, we're paying $50-100 less but have to be locked in for an extra year. Our plans cost more and has less features.
Have you priced out a new plan from Verizon, you might be in for a shock.
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Nov 29, 2011
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The biggest thing is how much these phones cost, outright or not. All the attention gets put on contracts and Rogers/Bell/Telus, but paying $500-700 for a cell phone is just insane to me.

I can understand the logic if you can save enough per month by not having a subsidized phone, but these numbers are not easily found. If someone can link to them from Rogers/Bell/Telus it'd be appreciated.

Assuming the savings are less than $10/month however, then overall you'd still save money by getting a subsidized phone on contract, depending on that phone cost. If the phone is $100 or less, you'll come out ahead.

Plus, if your phone is lost/damaged/stolen, whether on contract or not it'll cost you. At least with contract if it happens far enough into it, you can get another subsidized phone at the sacrifice of extending your contract (which can be beneficial sometimes if your plan is better than what is available). To keep saving, keep extending.

What it really comes down to above all is having a good plan, outside of the length of term.

Mine, for example, is pretty standard voice (albeit before my5/10 or unlimited voice, but it's still more than I use) and 6GB of data for $60/month. I had it on contract in fall 2010, and had it extended to fall 2015 this year after my 2010 phone was stolen. I'm getting 20% more data for 33% less than current plans.

And if my phone doesn't survive the 3 years, I'd have to buy a phone outright (or used) just like if I was never on contract. Or I can sell my phone and buy a phone outright, if I decide I want a Nexus or something. I still have that flexibility.
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onlineharvest wrote:
Dec 12th, 2012 1:11 am
Can someone please explain why the hell people are DEFENDING the 3 year contract? Are you having brain farts?!

Other countries have shorter terms, lower phone prices, better and lower plan price, and even lower outright phone prices. Do you not want something to change here? Not saying the CRTC is our best ally to do this, but nonetheless, surprised at how dear the slave contract is to people.

If I was an executive for any of the Big 3 and saw how people on bargain hunting websites actively defend a 3 year slave contract, man, would I be a happy SOB and know I don't have to change A THING.
Because politicians made the Big 3 look like a saint? Do these politicians really thing that phone companies will just eat the 3rd year subsidy? More than likely, it will be higher upfront amount, or monthly fee.

The minimum subsidized amount for the 3 year contract is 450, or $150/year, 12.50/month. The most discount that you can get without a phone is 10%. Do the math. If I want Big 3 services, I need to have a monthly plan of $125 to break even. I don't see any plan from the Big 3 that would offer be a discount of $12.50 per month without a new phone. And comparing Big 3 services with Mobilicity or Wind is not fair. It would be like why would anyone buy a Cadillac when a Ford Escort will do the same thing.
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dec12 wrote:
Dec 12th, 2012 2:08 pm
Because politicians made the Big 3 look like a saint? Do these politicians really thing that phone companies will just eat the 3rd year subsidy? More than likely, it will be higher upfront amount, or monthly fee.

The minimum subsidized amount for the 3 year contract is 450, or $150/year, 12.50/month. The most discount that you can get without a phone is 10%. Do the math. If I want Big 3 services, I need to have a monthly plan of $125 to break even. I don't see any plan from the Big 3 that would offer be a discount of $12.50 per month without a new phone. And comparing Big 3 services with Mobilicity or Wind is not fair. It would be like why would anyone buy a Cadillac when a Ford Escort will do the same thing.
Well, if that is how you think, NO WONDER you think a 3 year slave contract is better.
- Better savings to be had even ignoring Wind, etc, and looking at sub-brands that run on the same network (e.g., Virgin/Koodo/Fido)
- 10% is the MAX saving? That is pretty naïve.
- You need a $125/month plan with Rogers/Bell/Telus to BREAK EVEN in comparison with other companies and without a phone subsidy? Wow.

And you are ignoring something else. Not only are there savings to be had, there is the FREEDOM of not being attached to a contract, FREEDOM to leave to a better plan whenever you like.
If you look at the sub-brands, you're comparing Cadillac with Cadillac.
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onlineharvest wrote:
Dec 12th, 2012 2:37 pm
Well, if that is how you think, NO WONDER you think a 3 year slave contract is better.
- Better savings to be had even ignoring Wind, etc, and looking at sub-brands that run on the same network (e.g., Virgin/Koodo/Fido)
- 10% is the MAX saving? That is pretty naïve.
- You need a $125/month plan with Rogers/Bell/Telus to BREAK EVEN in comparison with other companies and without a phone subsidy? Wow.

And you are ignoring something else. Not only are there savings to be had, there is the FREEDOM of not being attached to a contract, FREEDOM to leave to a better plan whenever you like.
If you look at the sub-brands, you're comparing Cadillac with Cadillac.
Fine, comparing a Lexus to a Yaris?

You are still comparing apples to oranges.

Let's say I want a Note II and service with Telus. I can walk away with a brand spanking new phone with zero or just $50 down, and 3 year contract with $50 per month. I can do the same thing with the other 2 companies. What I can't do is buy a brand new Note II outright and ask the Big 3 to credit me the same amount as they would with the subsidized $700 phone. The most that they would offer me is 10% off for not getting a subsidized phone. If I don't like Telus in a year, I just pay off the remaining balance, $450 (?), unlocked it and use it on the other 2 big networks. No slavery, no commitment.

I could buy a Note II from Wind for $400(?) and if I don't like Wind in a year, I still have to pay off the tab, and bring that Note II to another phone network. Oh wait. I can't. Wind phones, with exception of Nexus, are not guaranteed to work on non-Wind network.
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Jun 2, 2010
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dec12 wrote:
Dec 12th, 2012 4:46 pm
Fine, comparing a Lexus to a Yaris?

You are still comparing apples to oranges.

Let's say I want a Note II and service with Telus. I can walk away with a brand spanking new phone with zero or just $50 down, and 3 year contract with $50 per month. I can do the same thing with the other 2 companies. What I can't do is buy a brand new Note II outright and ask the Big 3 to credit me the same amount as they would with the subsidized $700 phone. The most that they would offer me is 10% off for not getting a subsidized phone. If I don't like Telus in a year, I just pay off the remaining balance, $450 (?), unlocked it and use it on the other 2 big networks. No slavery, no commitment.

I could buy a Note II from Wind for $400(?) and if I don't like Wind in a year, I still have to pay off the tab, and bring that Note II to another phone network. Oh wait. I can't. Wind phones, with exception of Nexus, are not guaranteed to work on non-Wind network.

400 with a 350 wind tab
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dec12 wrote:
Dec 12th, 2012 4:46 pm
Fine, comparing a Lexus to a Yaris?

You are still comparing apples to oranges.

Let's say I want a Note II and service with Telus. I can walk away with a brand spanking new phone with zero or just $50 down, and 3 year contract with $50 per month. I can do the same thing with the other 2 companies. What I can't do is buy a brand new Note II outright and ask the Big 3 to credit me the same amount as they would with the subsidized $700 phone. The most that they would offer me is 10% off for not getting a subsidized phone. If I don't like Telus in a year, I just pay off the remaining balance, $450 (?), unlocked it and use it on the other 2 big networks. No slavery, no commitment.

I could buy a Note II from Wind for $400(?) and if I don't like Wind in a year, I still have to pay off the tab, and bring that Note II to another phone network. Oh wait. I can't. Wind phones, with exception of Nexus, are not guaranteed to work on non-Wind network.
I don't think you know what the phrase apples to oranges even means.
If you actually believe the Big 3 are doing you a favor by signing a 3 year slave contract, well, there's nothing more I can say to you.

Nothing will change in this country when people not only buy into this nonsense, but also DEFEND it.
Take care.
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> If you defend the status quo HERE, when it is better EVERY WHERE ELSE, what hope do you have of changing anything for the better?

I remember a time when landlines had high long distance prices. The people got their wish, competition came: and LD prices dropped. But surprise, basic landline prices increased. Today, with different options for telephone service, this isn't such a big deal anymore, but don't always think that things will be better if you get what you wish for.
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onlineharvest wrote:
Dec 13th, 2012 12:01 am
I don't think you know what the phrase apples to oranges even means.
If you actually believe the Big 3 are doing you a favor by signing a 3 year slave contract, well, there's nothing more I can say to you.

Nothing will change in this country when people not only buy into this nonsense, but also DEFEND it.
Take care.
i am saving $45 / month compare to my rogers bill

i am getting the same and more from wind than rogers ( i am talking about my own experience, i am not getting spotty service, i am just talking about the places i usually go so don't tell me you get bad service from wind which i don't care)

i am almost 2 years away from rogers and i saved $45 x 24 = $1080
guess what, i think i can get whatever phone i wanted

i am 100% agree, nothing is gonna change when people like DEC12 buying into the big 3 nonsense and defend it till the day they die
dec12 wrote:
Dec 12th, 2012 4:46 pm
I could buy a Note II from Wind for $400(?) and if I don't like Wind in a year, I still have to pay off the tab, and bring that Note II to another phone network. Oh wait. I can't. Wind phones, with exception of Nexus, are not guaranteed to work on non-Wind network.
oh wait, rogers does have a flextab, beside i am paying off the tab, i still have to pay extra with ECF ! oh noes !
and most wind/mobi phone will work on the big 3 not the other way around
It's a deal if it's on RFD :!: :!:
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rabbit wrote:
Dec 13th, 2012 3:58 am
> If you defend the status quo HERE, when it is better EVERY WHERE ELSE, what hope do you have of changing anything for the better?

I remember a time when landlines had high long distance prices. The people got their wish, competition came: and LD prices dropped. But surprise, basic landline prices increased. Today, with different options for telephone service, this isn't such a big deal anymore, but don't always think that things will be better if you get what you wish for.
:) I understand that it is a zero sum game for the Big 3. If they are forced to drop something here, they will add it somewhere else.
They are the closest thing to a Cartel that we have here in Canada.

However, the only thing that can disrupt this zero sum process is TRUE competition and votes with our dollars. I'll admit that is difficult to do, not impossible. And as with everything, time, and showing the same level of aggression they do for the consumer's sake should (hopefully) change things for the better.

There's also no guarantee that Big 3 would have held their rates CONSTANT if they didn't drop LD rates - I'd argue both would be high, they are not generous. Rogers even decided to reduce the bundling discount from 5% per extra service, to 4% (12% on 4 services, versus 15%) - no doubt about it, it is a ploy to recoup lost revenue elsewhere.

We have to hope and fight for change otherwise it will only get worse. Its no secret that we have one of the most expensive communications expenses in the world. If we don't do anything to change that, it wont.
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