Cell Phones

[Merged] Do not pay Rogers/Fido's 30 days of services when porting a number

  • Last Updated:
  • Jul 25th, 2015 1:38 pm
Tags:
None
Sr. Member
Nov 7, 2010
980 posts
221 upvotes
Aurora
l69norm wrote:
Feb 4th, 2011 6:14 am
I have ported cellular numbers out from Bell Mobility before, as recently as 6 months ago. If you give 30 days "notice of porting", it's only a note added onto your file that is valid for 60 days. ... (big snip)....

From reading the "letter" you got, it looks like you did not give 30 days notice so Bell was entitled to charge you for the full 30 days from the date you ported out. If you did provide 30 days notice, you should call the CCTS back and indicate that notice of porting was given by you to on/before Sept 23

Well, in the past 6 months they changed their handling.

For you to tell me what happened 6 months ago is helpful, it shows a downward trend in their attitudes towards customers.

If anyone with an active Bell phone would call in to discuss porting and ask about placing a note on the file, etc. and report back here... that would be useful to us all in setting a new precedent.

Look, I did not make this up. Their contract wording today is very clear, what was it 6 months ago when you were successful? And today they tell you that announcing intent to terminate in 30 days locks up your old number immediately so that the new provider is told it cannot be ported.

Today: : http://www.bell.ca/shopping/PrsShp_Bill ... sferNumber
If you want to transfer your wireless phone number to another service provider, then, as long as your account and phone number are active, Bell will process a "transfer-out" request from your new chosen service provider. You must pay any amounts due plus applicable taxes resulting from the termination of your Services before the expiry of your Service Commitment Period, and the monthly charges applicable for the 30 days after the transfer is requested.
Please notice the phrase "AFTER the transfer is requested"... that is when your NEW provider initiates the transfer because YOU CANNOT request the transfer.

And my email/letter from Bell head Office confirms that: (BTW, if by putting "letter" in quotes indicates you doubt its existence, PM me with your email address and I will forward you the email complete with headers for you to examine. Sorry to sound snippy but I get the impression from a couple of people here that they think I am spinning a yarn. This is not helpful in communicating real problems in trying to prevent further grief.
Details of complaint:

Mr. xxx xxxx is disputing Bell Mobility?s policy of billing for 30-days from the transfer-out date due to transferring the cellular numbers to another service provider.

Details of resolution:

Bell Mobility continues to bill for the monthly recurring charges 30-days from the transfer-out date.

Transfer-out date was initiated on October 24th 2010 and the account was cancelled November 23rd 2010.

There is no error on the account.

Edit: CCTS process worked, got a check back. ALSO got paid back by Visa as I disputed the charge. Do it! It feels good!
Sr. Member
Nov 7, 2010
980 posts
221 upvotes
Aurora
Here's another thread on the same topic.... same results as for me:

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r252744 ... ortability
When porting never cancel the landline or you lose the number.
Let the VOIP provider take care of that problem. Once they inform porting is complete then ISP will ask you to call Bell and cancel.
I just finished porting Bell to New ISP.
The worst part is Bell asks you to pay for one month even though your line is dead.
And what's worse, is that when porting a number to voip, the second its ported you cannot even use the remaining 30 days on your bell service which they force you to pay. Unless you ***** them to assign you a new number for those 30 days. If they wont, then dispute the charge.

At least with TV or internet, you can still use the 30 days of extra service even though you may not want it.
And another thread: http://www.speakoutwireless.ca/speak/te ... ne-number/
I was just today told by a Bell CSR that once i give them the 30 days notice, the number cannot be ported. Does anyone have recent first hand experience on this. Is it fact or was the CSR just blowing smoke?
So between the contract and the final results is what happens in real life. Bell scares you with their threat to cancel your number upon giving notice, so phone them with tape recorder running.....

Edit: CCTS process worked, got a check back. ALSO got paid back by Visa as I disputed the charge. Do it! It feels good!
Deal Guru
User avatar
Jun 12, 2007
10907 posts
1323 upvotes
My porting date was Aug 16, 2010. Your porting date was Oct 23, 2010. I don't think Bell changed anything in that 2 month period. I provided porting notice to Bell on Aug 1 2010. I was billed in advance for 30 days service for the month of Aug, 2010 and was refunded for the unused 15 days (after waiting 60 days).

Can you confirm that you provided Bell with at least 30 days notice (i.e. on or before Sept 23, 2010) ?

Do not mix up the concepts of "notice of cancellation" vs. "notice of porting"
Sr. Member
Nov 7, 2010
980 posts
221 upvotes
Aurora
l69norm wrote:
Feb 4th, 2011 12:19 pm
My porting date was Aug 16, 2010. Your porting date was Oct 23, 2010. I don't think Bell changed anything in that 2 month period. I provided porting notice to Bell on Aug 1, 2010. I was billed in advance for 30 days service for the month of Aug, 2010 and was refunded for 15 days (after 60 days).

Can you confirm that you provided Bell with at least 30 days notice (i.e. on or before Sept 23, 2010) ?

Do not mix up the concepts of "notice of cancellation" vs. "notice of porting"
I phoned. I said "I would like to give you 30 days notice that I do not want the phone anymore."

Them: "Yes, sir, Do you intend to keep your phone number?"

Me: "Yes, why? (knowing the potential reaction from other reading I had done)

Them: "If you give notice now, your phone number will be cancelled/held/flagged (I forget the exact word they used) and you will not be able to request it to be ported. You should just arrange for new service and those people will request the port so you will be sure to keep your number."

Me "Then you cancel my account?"

Them: "Yes, we automatically cancel when a port is requested, and then the 30 day period starts."

Me: "What 30 day period?"

Them: "Your 30 day cancellation period."

Me: "And you want me to pay for that 30 days?"

Them: " Yes, sir , that is the terms of your contract."

Me: "I do not have a contract, I have been monthly for years and I called to give the 30 days notice."

Them: "Well, you can give us notice but you will not be able to move your phone number once we flag the account as on notice."

Me: "You're joking, you want me to pay when I cannot use the phone?"

Them: " Yes, sir, once you port your phone it no longer works."

Me: ")(^)(^_(*^)^^%$#$#^%*&"...(not really, but they knew I was pissed) Good bye.

Called Brand X, they ported it, Bell did what they promised and dinged my Visa for 30 days.

I wanted the numbers as they are on business cards, they know that, so they threaten, and it worked. They most certainly talked me out of giving notice of cancellation by telling me I could not port if I gave notice.

I will pass on the answers from my Bell Head Office hatchet man if he replies.

It appears you were smarter then them when you did yours. But this is how they threatened me so what was I to do?


Edit: CCTS process worked, got a check back. ALSO got paid back by Visa as I disputed the charge. Do it! It feels good!
Deal Guru
User avatar
Jun 12, 2007
10907 posts
1323 upvotes
boblepp wrote:
Feb 4th, 2011 2:11 pm
I phoned. I said "I would like to give you 30 days notice that I do not want the phone anymore."...
You essentially told them you are cancelling your account. You should have told Bell that you are giving them 30 days notice that you may porting out your number out as per the Bell terms of service (what they called the contract). You then confirm with the CSR that this is not notice that you are cancelling your account (i.e not to flag the account). If the CSR still does not understand and still tries to cancel the account, escalate higher to a supervisor. Remember, the first level guys are just contract workers in a third party call center and read out predefined scripts. The notice is valid for up to 60 days. If you do not port out within the 60 day window, nothing happens and you have to start the 30 day clock over again.

I'm pretty sure that I first read about how to port out from Bell on RFD

You should call CCTS back and complain that you tried to give Bell the 30 days notice as required on date XXX and the CSR either didn't understand or refused to put the porting notice on your account. Bell will have a record on file of your conversation on date XXX. You should be able to get the difference less 30 days refunded.
Sr. Member
Nov 7, 2010
980 posts
221 upvotes
Aurora
l69norm wrote:
Feb 4th, 2011 5:12 pm
Snip... You should be able to get the difference less 30 days refunded.
Nope, they refuse, they say everyone pays 30 days after port. When I get the confirming email from them I will post here.

Lies, lies and more lies I guess.

Edit: CCTS process worked, got a check back. ALSO got paid back by Visa as I disputed the charge. Do it! It feels good!
Deal Guru
User avatar
Jun 12, 2007
10907 posts
1323 upvotes
boblepp wrote:
Feb 5th, 2011 12:39 am
Nope, they refuse, they say everyone pays 30 days after port. When I get the confirming email from them I will post here. Lies, lies and more lies I guess.
For Bell, see:
http://www.howardforums.com/showthread. ... Extra-Fees

What day did you call Bell to try to give them notice? Even if Bell screwed up, they will still have a note on your file confirming that you called Bell on that same day. Your complaint to the CCTS should be that you tried to comply with the Terms of Service and give Bell X days notice, they refused to take notice and that Bell then charged you 30 days service after porting.

In other words, your CCTS complaint should be worded that "..I tried to comply with the Bell Terms of Service and give Bell X days notice. Bell refused to comply with their own Terms of Service and penalized me $AA as a direct result...Bell should refund me for Y days or $BB...."

If all your CCTS complaint was about was only the 30 days, Bell's answer to the CCTS is that you did not provide them with 30 days advance notice as noted in the Bell "Terms of Service" .

For Rogers/Fido, see:
https://rogerswatch.wordpress.com/Porting/
Sr. Member
Nov 7, 2010
980 posts
221 upvotes
Aurora
l69norm wrote:
Feb 5th, 2011 9:55 am
For Bell, see:
http://www.howardforums.com/showthread. ... Extra-Fees

What day did you call Bell to try to give them notice? Even if Bell screwed up, they will still have a note on your file confirming that you called Bell on that same day. Your complaint to the CCTS should be that you tried to comply with the Terms of Service and give Bell X days notice, they refused to take notice and that Bell then charged you 30 days service after porting.

In other words, your CCTS complaint should be worded that "..I tried to comply with the Bell Terms of Service and give Bell X days notice. Bell refused to comply with their own Terms of Service and penalized me $AA as a direct result...Bell should refund me for Y days or $BB...."

If all your CCTS complaint was about was only the 30 days, Bell's answer to the CCTS is that you did not provide them with 30 days advance notice as noted in the Bell "Terms of Service" .

For Rogers/Fido, see:
https://rogerswatch.wordpress.com/Porting/
Again, I think what some of you are missing is that I phoned to give 30 days notice, and I was told I must call the new provider FIRST, and that they would not process a 30 day notice if I wanted to port my number. They quoted 'it is a CRTC mandate' to do it this way.

Faced with a refusal to take 30 days notice without cancelling and holding my phone number captive, I proceeded with the new provider. And I knew full well that they were going to charge me 30 days anyway since they told me directly this was their policy.

As I was typing I though it would be easier to just phone them and ask the policy. I now have a voice recording of the current policy if you want it. She handled me identically to the Oct 23 call. "Call your new provider, they request the port, then 30 days later the account is cancelled.' When asked if I could give 'a notice of port in 30 days' she said "No, sorry, this is the only way to do it.'

If anyone wants the recording let me know. I will forward it to the Bell HO guy handling my complaint. Wish I had thought of this earlier, much easier to just record every call. Nettalk is free for wifi iPhone calls and has built in record.

If I can post it to web site (Youtube? maybe) I will post back.


Edit: CCTS process worked, got a check back. ALSO got paid back by Visa as I disputed the charge. Do it! It feels good!
Sr. Member
Nov 7, 2010
980 posts
221 upvotes
Aurora
boblepp wrote:
Feb 5th, 2011 2:23 pm
If I can post it to web site (Youtube? maybe) I will post back.
YOUTUBE clip of the official policy you will be given to port out your cell number


Well here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ty3w090K16I

I hope this clarifies adequately. I asked the question in multiple ways as others have suggested.

Same answer, go to the new guys and request a port, pay us for a dead phone for 30 days.

Not one penny was spent on cell providers in making this video.... nor were any of them injured as much as I would like to have done....

I thought it appropriate I used a Petro Canada based iPhone using free Nettalk to make and record the call, re-recorded that to MS free voice recorder to a .wma and then free Picasa to use it as a sound clip for a one page text slide slide and upload direct to my free Youtube account... all done on wifi at home for free. OK, I DID use up some of my *^*&^%*&% Rogers UBB cap, but I am way under anyway.


Edit: CCTS process worked, got a check back. ALSO got paid back by Visa as I disputed the charge. Do it! It feels good!
Deal Addict
User avatar
Apr 1, 2006
3370 posts
334 upvotes
Brisbane
I think some responders are getting caught up in the OP's specific situation details, rather than the overall issue, which is that you shouldn't have to use "account notes", the CCTS or weird billing cycle approaches in order to not be charged 30 days for service you can no longer physically use.

The truth is, that's wrong. The Telcos know it is. They do it as a last clawback. There's no legitimate reason for it
Sr. Member
Nov 7, 2010
980 posts
221 upvotes
Aurora
l69norm wrote:
Feb 6th, 2011 9:50 pm
For Bell:
http://www.howardforums.com/showthre...ing-Extra-Fees

For Rogers/Fido, see:
https://rogerswatch.wordpress.com/Porting/

CCTS recognizes that this is a problem in their yearly report
The Bell link fails.

I found the CCTS report very informative on the 30 day issue, but all they can do is recommend providers play fair, BUT, it looks like they are siding with the consumer on the double dip... http://www.ccts-cprst.ca/wp-content/upl ... 9-2010.pdf
Until such time as the industry has created another
solution, we recommend that customers seeking to port
their number to a new provider first verify whether they
are required to provide 30 days’ notice of termination
to their current provider . If such notice is required, we
recommend that the customer ask the new provider to
future date the porting order by 30 days .
With Bell you can ask for a future port but they will refuse.

Sounds like I will get my money back if an investigator gets involved.

If anyone gets a successful future port with Bell please post back here? Thanks!


Edit: CCTS process worked, got a check back. ALSO got paid back by Visa as I disputed the charge. Do it! It feels good!
Sr. Member
Nov 7, 2010
980 posts
221 upvotes
Aurora
boblepp wrote:
Feb 6th, 2011 10:36 pm
If anyone gets a successful future port with Bell please post back here? Thanks!
This gets better each day and if I bore you move along. I hope it helps people in future ports to know what they want to hear at Bell. It seems now you do not precisely HAVE to tell them your ARE cancelling in 30 days....

Vanya from Bell Head Office Toronto phoned back today. I had sent him an email asking him to reply to the CCTS on my complaint since they show it outstanding, and I sent along quotes from the CCTS annual report and a youtube link to his operator telling me I could not request a future port or leave 30 days notice without locking my number..

He states once more that I should have given 'notice that in 30 days you were thinking of switching' and then port in 30 days. He used the word 'thinking' so according to him you need not specifically say you are cancelling, just thinking is enough (not in the contract by the way)... this is quite subtle yet clever, and I never would have thought of deceiving Bell in that way since I knew I was leaving, but that is what he told me I should have done. Live and learn.

At this point I assume I would not get the 'half your money back' offer like our first conversation.

I repeated and raised my voice unfortunately, but it was to no avail as he stated again that their operators are trained to accept a '30 day thinking of switching' note on the file with no hold on the number for porting. I differed.

I asked if he had reviewed the youtube clip. No, he is not allowed to watch ANY video at work.

I asked if he had read last year's CCTS annual report, and he asked 'what report?' so I explained that his CCTS issues a report and specifically chastised the industry for threats of number holding and double billing. He stated he had not read it.

Now, remember, this is the guy at Head Office who handles complaints. He does not read what the CCTS writes about the processes he arbitrates. I would think this would give him an edge in future cases if he knows how the CCTS rules.

I asked if I could send an attachment of the sound clip, he declined saying they are not allowed to open attachments for security reasons. I guess they do not use their own anti virus solutions: http://service.sympatico.ca/index.cfm?m ... t_id=13594

I asked if he could view it tonight at home, he declined. I forgot to ask if he had an iphone or android, but maybe he did not want to risk the Bell cellular network on my voice clip.

He asked if I got the youtube clip operator's name, I said no. I said if I could get another clip with her name spoken would he review it, he declined... no attachments. I will try to play it back over the phone to him.

I said I would be happy to call the operator who I spoke with Oct. 23 and I asked for her first name, he declined to give it to me. He said I could not ask for a specific operator on call back anyway. I asked how I would be able to find her then, and he said he knew her name. AHA, if he knew her name then he knows I called, and since I could not ask her to do anything without holding my number ransom, I called Rogers. So, he admits I called, but he says I did not give notice.... arrggghh. I guessed I called Oct. 23 to pass the time of day and never mentioned my monthly contract.

We danced in circles, so I asked for his supervisor, and Vanya said he would call back. I yelled at him some more ( I must call and apologize). This was not nice but he took me beyond my patience. To his credit he remained quite calm, years of practice I guess. I know I shall get nowhere with him but I think this is true of any agent they could assign.

So I will make another call and record it after asking her name.

Moral to date... voice record every conversation with your provider, make notes, and make sure you ask for an identifying name or employee number. And call Vanya if you want to be safe.

My transcript:

Me: Oh, good afternoon, I’m not sure did I end up with a French operator?
Bell: Yeah, but I can talk to you in English if you want, dear.
Me: Yeah, OK, thanks, it’s a question on policy, umm, from a Bell Mobility phone that I’m going to port to another supplier and it’s on a monthly contract because the contract ran out years ago. Umm, Can you tell me what the official best way to do it, to port, when I want to be able to port my number over to the new supplier?
Bell: Well, basically all you need to do is go to the supplier and explain that you want to make a port out. What will happen is that they will transfer the cell phone number. You don’t even have to deal with us. Basically what will happen is that your cell phone account with Bell Mobility will get on suspension for 30 days. After that it will get cancelled
Me: Oh, OK, Can I not give you 30 days notice first and avoid paying for 30 days with no service.
Bell: No, it’s the same procedure because the line needs to stay active for them to be able to port out the number and it gets done automatically by the system.
Me: Can I not give you 30 days notice saying in 30 days I am going to port it.
Bell: Nope.
Me: No. Absolutely, eh?
Bell: No. That's not the way to proceed...I am sorry about that, do you want me to go take a look at the account to make sure that you don’t have any contract?
Me: No, no I know I don’t. I’ve had it for 20 years and the last contract I signed was about 10 years ago, so it’s just month to month.
Bell: As you wish.
Me: Ok thanks very much.
Bell: You’re very welcome. Thanks for choosing Bell.
Me: Bye bye
Bell: Bye

End of call

Edit: CCTS process worked, got a check back. ALSO got paid back by Visa as I disputed the charge. Do it! It feels good!
Sr. Member
Nov 7, 2010
980 posts
221 upvotes
Aurora
No money in hand yet but a promise of a full credit from Vanya's supervisor. Nice lady, listened well, and stated that the policy exists to flag an account as having given 30 days notice in advance without locking the number. The two random people I spoke to 3.5 months apart simply had been trained incorrectly.

Regrettably she sided with her employee on the issue of remaining aware of CCTS rulings and comments, he is simply too busy to read that annual report.

She promises to restate to management that the operators need to be retrained. I stated my belief their training has been working quite well as the CCTS points out.

So to those of you who have this problem now or ahead of you.... plan ahead, record voice on everything, take names and numbers and statements in writing, ask for a supervisor right away, pay by Visa and stop monthly pay right away.

What will I do with all my spare time now?


Edit: CCTS process worked, got a check back. ALSO got paid back by Visa as I disputed the charge. Do it! It feels good!
Newbie
Apr 5, 2010
9 posts
I was able to get a refund by filing a complaint with the CCTS after I called Fido about the extra 30 days to port. Have not seen the money yet but just got a call from Fido, hopefully I will see the money back onto my credit card.
× < >

Top