Home & Garden

[Merged] Windows/Doors

Jr. Member
Nov 2, 2018
191 posts
79 upvotes
George613 wrote: We replaced 4 bedroom windows this year (double section awning both sides open) and needed jam extensions (they are wood) and I never even realized that vinyl jam extensions were an option. At the time I would have preferred them to the wood ones that came with our windows due to less maintenance, easier to clean, no need to paint etc.

Please explain differences advantages/disadvantages of wood vs vinyl jam extensions.
Would you buy a PVC Vinyl Coffee table, or Plastic kitchen cabinets? PVC Jambs/Casing look awfully cheap and glossy. Problematic installing window coverings within PVC Jambs. They don't paint well. PVC Casing often get loose over time. And wood Jambs rarely, if ever, need to be "maintained".
Deal Guru
Jan 25, 2007
12695 posts
7861 upvotes
Paris
WindowGuyLarry wrote: Would you buy a PVC Vinyl Coffee table, or Plastic kitchen cabinets? PVC Jambs/Casing look awfully cheap and glossy. Problematic installing window coverings within PVC Jambs. They don't paint well. PVC Casing often get loose over time. And wood Jambs rarely, if ever, need to be "maintained".
Funny you say that considering so many laminate counter tops are basically a plastic.
Deal Guru
Jan 25, 2007
12695 posts
7861 upvotes
Paris
nano69an wrote: , interior moldings (mdf but cheapest quote is pvc),
Anyone putting mdf trim around a window is an automatic no.
Jr. Member
Nov 2, 2018
191 posts
79 upvotes
Jerico wrote: Funny you say that considering so many laminate counter tops are basically a plastic.
C'mon Jerico, you know I said Cabinets

Do you agree with my general statement or not?
Deal Fanatic
Dec 27, 2007
8253 posts
5753 upvotes
What should I be prioritizing for windows in Southern Ontario?

Energy rating, R rating, U value, energy star? All these different values are confusing

I'm leaning towards vinylbilt dbl glazed with 272 glass, i89 on the indoor glass but they only qualify for energy star zone 1?
Deal Addict
User avatar
Apr 21, 2016
1233 posts
627 upvotes
GTA
Jerico wrote: Anyone putting mdf trim around a window is an automatic no.
Jerico, as you well know the problem is people look at MDF as a wood product rather than a word particle product. If improperly installed they can be a disaster no question but, with a little bit of care and creativity, they can work just fine. all the windows in my home are made up of a combination of FJ pine, pine and MDF and each window has 6 separate components. Jambs are wood but the rest is MDF that I spray finished with a heavy acrylic paint on ALL sides. Before they went up, everything was spray foamed and then every opening tuck taped, every brad hole poly filled and then the window is chalked with silicone chalk on all sides. Been 10 years and never ever had a problem.

Now in the master washroom where I didn't spray finish all sides, 1 small toilet leak has forced me to change out 1 piece.

The problem is anything outside of 2 3/8, 2 3/4 std casing is becoming nosebleed expensive
Member
May 11, 2011
465 posts
120 upvotes
Highway 427 and The …
I'm Phil Lewin of GEM Windows and a member of numerous NGO and industry committees.

U and R are different sides of the same coin. U times R = 1, so an R4 is the same as a U.25 . We are a country that uses U for products such as windows. R is often used for insulation. Note that some sale people use the R of the center glass value to make their products seem better than they are.

So, the issue is U or E.R.? No right answer here. The U value of a window is a measure of the effectiveness of thermal transfer of energy. E.R. also measures thermal transfer but includes solar heat gain as a benefit. If you see, in your situation, benefits to solar heat gain for winter heating, you probably will go for the higher E.R. If you are concerned with summer heat build up and air conditioning, go U and get the lowest value you can reasonably afford.

272 is a basic glass for someone going with a low U package. i89 lets in a bit of solar heat. Putting a low E on an exposed surface is quite controversial. I'm on the never until hell freezes over side because of reduced condensation resistance. There are those who don't see this as a big issue and love the performance benefits for the cost.



BigJonsson wrote: What should I be prioritizing for windows in Southern Ontario?

Energy rating, R rating, U value, energy star? All these different values are confusing

I'm leaning towards vinylbilt dbl glazed with 272 glass, i89 on the indoor glass but they only qualify for energy star zone 1?
Deal Guru
Jan 25, 2007
12695 posts
7861 upvotes
Paris
WindowGuyLarry wrote: C'mon Jerico, you know I said Cabinets

Do you agree with my general statement or not?
Generally yes. But depot sells truckloads of those laminated kitchen cabinets in the breezeway.

I don’t like vinyl nor vinyl covered jambs except in narrow circumstances.
Deal Guru
Jan 25, 2007
12695 posts
7861 upvotes
Paris
anotherwindowpro wrote: So, the issue is U or E.R.?
ER is the dumbest rating for southern Ontario where we pay peanuts for heating and a fortune for AC plus our summers are so hot. It’s much easier and cheaper to heat a house than to cool it, so why are we heating our houses with windows? Generally lower solar heat gain means a better u value as well.

Now... go to the country and heat with propane or oil and it’s a different story.

Yes I am replying to Phil but my comment is to the thread.
Deal Guru
Jan 25, 2007
12695 posts
7861 upvotes
Paris
missymouse wrote: Jerico, as you well know the problem is people look at MDF as a wood product rather than a word particle product.

Now in the master washroom where I didn't spray finish all sides, 1 small toilet leak has forced me to change out 1 piece.
So even someone who knows how to do it right didn’t manage too... MDF shouldn’t be around windows/doors.
Deal Fanatic
Dec 27, 2007
8253 posts
5753 upvotes
Jerico wrote: ER is the dumbest rating for southern Ontario where we pay peanuts for heating and a fortune for AC plus our summers are so hot. It’s much easier and cheaper to heat a house than to cool it, so why are we heating our houses with windows? Generally lower solar heat gain means a better u value as well.

Now... go to the country and heat with propane or oil and it’s a different story.

Yes I am replying to Phil but my comment is to the thread.
I see your logic

I wish I could have my new windows manufactured and installed right now, my bedroom is so damn cold because the heating vent is right under the really drafty window =/
Sr. Member
Jan 7, 2013
855 posts
526 upvotes
Oshawa, Ontario
The new triple pane windows I got last year were condensation free during this last -25c cold snap, with the bug screens left installed (around 22C, 30-35%RH inside).

So if condensation is an issue for you, triple pane windows do great in that regards.
Deal Guru
Jan 25, 2007
12695 posts
7861 upvotes
Paris
BigJonsson wrote: I see your logic

I wish I could have my new windows manufactured and installed right now, my bedroom is so damn cold because the heating vent is right under the really drafty window =/
ER works elsewhere. Friend of mine from Sault Ste Marie for instance didn’t even have AC. They just closed up drapes in the morning. We still call it Sault air conditioning to this day as it does work so long as nights are cooler.

Calgary Edmonton etc where it gets stupid cold and the cooling season is shorter it also makes sense. But it does not for areas served with gas in Southern Ontario
Member
May 11, 2011
465 posts
120 upvotes
Highway 427 and The …
I'm Phil Lewin of GEM Windows and a member of numerous NGO and industry committees.

To add to Shaidan, if you have double glazed windows with a second Low E on the interior surface, while you mimic the U value of triple, your condensation resistance is worse than a normal double glazed sealed unit. I'd love to hear feedback from those who bought that product from the last few days.
Shaidin wrote: The new triple pane windows I got last year were condensation free during this last -25c cold snap, with the bug screens left installed (around 22C, 30-35%RH inside).

So if condensation is an issue for you, triple pane windows do great in that regards.
Deal Addict
Oct 13, 2009
2691 posts
2708 upvotes
Ottawa
anotherwindowpro wrote: I'm Phil Lewin of GEM Windows and a member of numerous NGO and industry committees.

To add to Shaidan, if you have double glazed windows with a second Low E on the interior surface, while you mimic the U value of triple, your condensation resistance is worse than a normal double glazed sealed unit. I'd love to hear feedback from those who bought that product from the last few days.
Double pane in ottawa with Low-e i89 on the inside. It’s finally given me condensation in these -25 temps. Indoor is 35% humidity and 72f. Temps above -15 and I get nothing. Windows they replaced had condensation and frozen water all around the window lol so big improvement.
Deal Addict
User avatar
Apr 21, 2016
1233 posts
627 upvotes
GTA
Jerico wrote: So even someone who knows how to do it right didn’t manage too... MDF shouldn’t be around windows/doors.
LOL, got me there. The fact of the matter is doing it right takes loads of time and where I might be willing to spend the time and effort for me, it would be a chore to do for someone else.
Deal Guru
Jan 25, 2007
12695 posts
7861 upvotes
Paris
anotherwindowpro wrote: I'm Phil Lewin of GEM Windows and a member of numerous NGO and industry committees.

To add to Shaidan, if you have double glazed windows with a second Low E on the interior surface, while you mimic the U value of triple, your condensation resistance is worse than a normal double glazed sealed unit. I'd love to hear feedback from those who bought that product from the last few days.
Just a touch on my parents place with the blinds closed when it was stupid cold. Bottom millimeter kind of thing.
Deal Addict
User avatar
Apr 21, 2016
1233 posts
627 upvotes
GTA
TO CLEAR UP A MISUNDERSTANDING.

Earlier on this thread, I commented on "sales tactics" used by some unscrupulous window companies. I pointed out that sales such as "free installation, 2 for 1, 3 for 2, free colour etc, etc are just tin man cons at best. I thought I was clear but apparently, I wasn't. So here we go again.

When looking at a company, look into their advertising habits and sales promotions. Companies that today offer you "free installation" next month will offer you "3 for 2" or "free colour." It's a con. They mark their prices up by 30-40% and then discount you down to their normal price. These are the companies that heavily advertise and rely on the fact that you won't look at what they offered last month Vs this month.

Having said that, there are lots of companies that at this time of the year will offer a promotion to fill the pipeline after the winter. Usually, this is an installation discount or possibly an overall product sale. They have a well-defined start and finish, and in most cases designed to actually save you money. Negotiating your agreement now for installation in April gets you a better price than you would get in April and enables the dealer to start giving his installers work. There is a huge difference between 12 sales per year and 2 or 3 sales per year.

Easy to track, throw the Money Saver, Valupak bundles in a drawer for 4 months and before you start looking, check out their promo offerings over a quarter. If they have a new promo every month, it begs the question; "Are their prices inflated?"
Deal Guru
Jan 25, 2007
12695 posts
7861 upvotes
Paris
missymouse wrote: ; "Are their prices inflated?"
No! Every day is the best sale ever! And if you sign right now I’ll give you another 10% off!

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