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Millennials and the big city

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  • Jun 12th, 2017 4:24 pm
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Aug 29, 2010
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Toronto
at1212b wrote: The best example I can give today is the Scarborough homes (includes semis, townhouses). Has gotten more affordable again lately. But even up until last year, there were areas that still affordable. And it still is today. Talk to any millennial, I also know and have alot of close friends from work, and they all just shun it. Absolutely shun it. The immigrant generation before didn't look at it that way. The contemporary most visible version are the Sri Lankens. They took the dirtiest jobs (cooks, dishwasher, fastfood). Bought the more older houses in areas that are undesireable and some rented out. Moved up from there. The millennials of today need to study that group more instead of shunning that idea because it doesn't look like HGTV and you don't feel like you're in a Hollywood relationship.
Eh, a lot of your examples are pretty blanket. I grew up in Scarborough as a kid of one of those immigrants you say worked so much harder and got so much less. Me, and all of my friends growing up, came from parents who were immigrants, who also worked white collar jobs, pretty much off-the-bat. Typical situation is mother works downtown in some experienced office role (probably started as an admin assistant), father may work something more blue-collar like being a factory supervisor, but not always. Either way they got these jobs with no experience and no education and kept them for 30+ years.

In my case, my mom actually came from Sri Lanka, wasn't a refugee, was sponsored by extended family who came as I think a doctor or lawyer or so. She started working as an insurance agent at 21, and just retired as a Sr Underwriter two years ago making ~$90k. My dad came over a few years after her from the Netherlands, met my mom, got married, and got a job working for an Airline, and has been moving between them ever since (Air Canada now). They bought their first home literally after getting married, resold it, bought a bigger home after having my second brother, then bought our current home 15 years ago for like $300k (worth ~$850k now). Always had money in the bank, could afford to pay half of each of our tuition without even having an RESP, have a ton of money for when my dad retires too + a pension. And they started all this when they were 28.

I'm 26 now, getting married next year, and all I want is this:
Another example, I was at a open house in Ajax where it was older and not pristinely reno'd. Relatively 'good' price. Near a Durham bus stop too. Young 'Canadian modern' Millennial couple walks in, walk out almost immediately. The people that came and stayed? South East Asian. They saw what the house represented and how it fit into their future plans to get ahead. They see the fundamental benefit in it. It might turn out to be a great future, but they're not counting on it like that. They're looking at it like "we'd rather build here than spend on a cool neighbourhood".
But I won't be able to afford a house like that for another 10+ years. Don't know anyone who wants a new build. Hell, I don't even want to live in the city. I just want a 70s-80s era house (ideally remediated), with a little backyard for my kids, I don't really care where. Unfortunately as someone who does work blue-collar, these are the houses I work at, hired by millennial home flippers who swipe them up, slap stucco and other costmetic bullshit on them, to resell them at a bidding war between foreign and local investors.

So personally, I feel like you might have seen only one side of the situation, and I probably have too, but come on, there's no one single Millennial mindset, let's stop this.
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Feb 19, 2017
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As a millennial I hate the city. I hate everything to do with it. I dislike the swarming of people, I dislike the noise, I dislike the cramped living conditions, I dislike the costs, I dislike the fact a stamp sized property costs me a fortune, and I dislike how they smell and look.

I live in the east GTA due to work reasons and honestly I would move into any rural setting to get away from the suburbs and the city proper if it was at all possible. Honestly I wish companies (and the government by extension) would stop opening up in the GTA and go into more rural locales, but hey you wanna work you're screwed. I own a house, but it's nothing special, but it's a place to live. Just saved up for a year and bought it, but then hey, not impossible if you're not insane trying to get the largest thing possible...
RFD is love. RFD is life. I wish I had an RFDer for a wife.
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Nov 2, 2013
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Edmonton, AB
rocking23nf wrote: Edmonton and area is one of the fastest growing and younger populations around, where else in Canada can you buy a reasonably priced house, have a solid paycheck, access to great entertainment (oilers/eskimos), lots of green spaces, one of the cleanest cities around, and a downtown that is transforming fast. the winters suck, but the summers are great.
Aside from the clean comment, agreed. Only two seasons here- winter and construction. One always covers your home and vehicle in dust, another you and your vehicle in wet brown shit. In the bright side road maintenance and construction is always a busy industry- some guys get paid 350-400/day to do routine road "sweeps" or cleanings. Lol

Life felt like a battle of attrition when I lived in GVA. Just wearing yourself out trying to compete against all the old money and wealthy foreigners and immigrants- and then the offspring that fight for your jobs and who will do your job for less to nothing, just as something to do.

I packed my bags and came to Alberta 4 years ago- Edmonton in late 2014. Bought two properties (one 2013, one new build) around the Whyte area since then, a pickup and two new BMWs (though only the M4 i still have). Also have been able to collect money to start a business, pay my way to go back to school part time for the last couple years and my industry courses like Class 1, oilfield tickets, and other safety industry courses. It is not like places like BC here, as someone who is willing to make things happen has a future here.

Housing is not the most affordable, but miles ahead of GTA, GVA. Not the same scenery and amenities around, but buying a home is realistic for someone who wants to work and is not picky at the start. Most people can make $40-50K starting out in something around here with no experience or education, and newer nicer homes are typically around the $200-275/sq ft. Mark- closer to the 400s for higher end areas.

Other bad aside from the weather and dirtiness, dating scene sucks compared to a lot of other places, being Alberta. Lots of women just want to get chased by a lineup of lonely men making $100K and get knocked up. New neighborhoods can be hard on the eyes with cookie cutter houses that look all the same with few hills, trees, or other green to look at. Not much clean water you can trust to swim in. Drivers are terrible and you constantly wonder when you'll get hit by someone next. Alberta is very flat and dry in general. Not much scenery. But you must take the good with the bad !!
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FirstGear wrote: Aside from the clean comment, agreed. Only two seasons here- winter and construction. One always covers your home and vehicle in dust, another you and your vehicle in wet brown shit. In the bright side road maintenance and construction is always a busy industry- some guys get paid 350-400/day to do routine road "sweeps" or cleanings. Lol

Life felt like a battle of attrition when I lived in GVA. Just wearing yourself out trying to compete against all the old money and wealthy foreigners and immigrants- and then the offspring that fight for your jobs and who will do your job for less to nothing, just as something to do.

I packed my bags and came to Alberta 4 years ago- Edmonton in late 2014. Bought two properties (one 2013, one new build) around the Whyte area since then, a pickup and two new BMWs (though only the M4 i still have). Also have been able to collect money to start a business, pay my way to go back to school part time for the last couple years and my industry courses like Class 1, oilfield tickets, and other safety industry courses. It is not like places like BC here, as someone who is willing to make things happen has a future here.

Housing is not the most affordable, but miles ahead of GTA, GVA. Not the same scenery and amenities around, but buying a home is realistic for someone who wants to work and is not picky at the start. Most people can make $40-50K starting out in something around here with no experience or education, and newer nicer homes are typically around the $200-275/sq ft. Mark- closer to the 400s for higher end areas.

Other bad aside from the weather and dirtiness, dating scene sucks compared to a lot of other places, being Alberta. Lots of women just want to get chased by a lineup of lonely men making $100K and get knocked up. New neighborhoods can be hard on the eyes with cookie cutter houses that look all the same with few hills, trees, or other green to look at. Not much clean water you can trust to swim in. Drivers are terrible and you constantly wonder when you'll get hit by someone next. Alberta is very flat and dry in general. Not much scenery. But you must take the good with the bad !!
Why are you talking sense to a guy who seems to think Edmonton is paradise? Smiling Face With Open Mouth And Smiling Eyes
I can agree with pretty much everything you said. Property is "reasonable" (admittedly) in Edmonton for a reason, because aside from the potential to make money (oil-related or otherwise) it is not a very appealing city.
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Sep 4, 2007
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FirstGear wrote: Alberta is very flat and dry in general. Not much scenery. But you must take the good with the bad !!
Edmonton is a pretty ugly city by most measures. Sure the locals rave about the river valley that looks pretty nice, but hey that's like 1% of the city and most of it is wild and unkempt. Downtown is ugly - like probably one of the ugliest set of skycrapers in the world. The suburbs are ugly with cookie cutter houses packed soooo tightly next to each other. Edmonton is definitely a place for functionality, not aesthetics.

That said, Alberta as a whole has some amazing sights - the infinite rolling prairie, the beautiful yellow canola fields, the badlands, and of course, the lakes and mountains. Jasper/Banff are easily in the top 5 most beautiful places on earth. Let's be objective. There's much beauty in Alberta.
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Nov 2, 2013
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Edmonton, AB
frozenmelon wrote: Edmonton is definitely a place for functionality, not aesthetics.
Used to know a woman who has worked with a few Edmonton builders over the years. She describes them as "production builders". So what you described- functionality, not aesthetics.

You also see it in the new home ads. They want to grind the psychological aspect of home ownership: condos, townhomes, homes with garage! Stop renting now and have a condo or house now!

They want you to say you have a house to put your pretty housewife in and with a driveway to park your toys in.
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Dec 23, 2015
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I'm a millenial who used to live in toronto and currently live in the suburbs but I would prefer a rural life and am exploring the possibility of buying an acreage in a rural area. Not all of us enjoy living close enough to the neighbor to hear him fart. Space = luxury.
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Apr 5, 2017
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Edmonton, AB
lol @ Edmonton dating scene.

And I always cringe at ads cramming "Location" and "Investing" ... it's Edmonton Real Estate: a) location sucks everywhere here b) and that being said, not much of an investment. You can build good equity when this place is in a "boom" period but average house price here has lost 10k value and that was either in '16 or this year. I know my parents house has fallen from 460-ish to 430-ish in a recent appraisal/assessment.

Condos I've considered, but do I really want a shoebox in the sky in an undesirable city where I'm paying nearly 500 a month condo fees forever? People struggle to rent those things out cash-positively here or at least from what I've seen while looking for a condo to either buy or rent. I'm turning 25 and don't want to own in this city at this time. It's a good renting market right now, good stuff popping up for $800 a month with incentives like half off deposit or free cable/internet, or "cash bonus". That 800 a month would probably go to utilities, property tax, mortgage interest, maintenance, condo fee, etc. anyway...yikes.
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Mar 29, 2012
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Our small towns don't really have much to offer. I would be more likely to live in a rural area somewhere in asia, rather than here.

Everyone I knew who grew up in a small town here hated it.
Last edited by SquirreI on Jun 12th, 2017 1:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Jul 19, 2007
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I'm a millennial from "small town" Ontario currently living in the heart of downtown Toronto that makes many of my friends and coworkers envious since everything is within walking distance including my work place (have great views of CN Tower and downtown skyline, close to theatres and restaurants, Entertainment District, Chinatown, Financial District/PATH, etc). But of course there's an cost and there are trade-offs. I like downtown Toronto living but don't plan living there forever. What lured me to downtown Toronto were job opportunities which were lacking in my hometown at the time I had graduated from university. There are many more job opportunities in Toronto, however, it's not what you know it's who you know.
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Jan 10, 2017
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Big city life is where people believe careers and life begin - with an outward movement as you mature in life/career.

I think this is true; I've always wanted to live in the downtown environment when I was younger, but as I grew up - I started to resent that style of living: noise, small space, expensive rent, etc.

To each their own - but I don't think this is exclusive to millennials; I think it's with everyone. I mean, there's a movie called 'Sex and the City' which had an entire motto of "Move to New York to Find Love". That, taken for what it was, goes beyond the generation of Millennials.
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May 22, 2016
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tehwegz wrote: lol @ Edmonton dating scene.

And I always cringe at ads cramming "Location" and "Investing" ... it's Edmonton Real Estate: a) location sucks everywhere here b) and that being said, not much of an investment. You can build good equity when this place is in a "boom" period but average house price here has lost 10k value and that was either in '16 or this year. I know my parents house has fallen from 460-ish to 430-ish in a recent appraisal/assessment.

Condos I've considered, but do I really want a shoebox in the sky in an undesirable city where I'm paying nearly 500 a month condo fees forever? People struggle to rent those things out cash-positively here or at least from what I've seen while looking for a condo to either buy or rent. I'm turning 25 and don't want to own in this city at this time. It's a good renting market right now, good stuff popping up for $800 a month with incentives like half off deposit or free cable/internet, or "cash bonus". That 800 a month would probably go to utilities, property tax, mortgage interest, maintenance, condo fee, etc. anyway...yikes.
Whats wrong with the Edmonton dating scene?
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Nov 2, 2013
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Edmonton, AB
tehwegz wrote: lol @ Edmonton dating scene.

And I always cringe at ads cramming "Location" and "Investing" ... it's Edmonton Real Estate: a) location sucks everywhere here b) and that being said, not much of an investment. You can build good equity when this place is in a "boom" period but average house price here has lost 10k value and that was either in '16 or this year. I know my parents house has fallen from 460-ish to 430-ish in a recent appraisal/assessment.

Condos I've considered, but do I really want a shoebox in the sky in an undesirable city where I'm paying nearly 500 a month condo fees forever? People struggle to rent those things out cash-positively here or at least from what I've seen while looking for a condo to either buy or rent. I'm turning 25 and don't want to own in this city at this time. It's a good renting market right now, good stuff popping up for $800 a month with incentives like half off deposit or free cable/internet, or "cash bonus". That 800 a month would probably go to utilities, property tax, mortgage interest, maintenance, condo fee, etc. anyway...yikes.
Women tend to get more greasy the more north you go. They like to daydream about lining up a bunch of lonely men and want to get knocked up. We used to joke Edmonton = single mom capital of Canada.

Real estate returns here suck without high leverage. Most are happy to see around 4-5% YoY. 5x at the least IMO or you're wasting your time. Problem is the average RE investor here just likes to see rent money come in even if the returns are relatively bad. "Mostly or all paid off and just have rent coming in" here is usually inferior to many equities.

Positive cash flow and crappy appreciation, or no cash flow and more appreciation. A phenomenon not just unique to Edmonton. Though if you're not a high leverage guy and still want to get into RE, GTA and GVA see much higher appreciation rates.
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